CDignition
Member
F class rifle 6.5x284....
IF youre looking for hard target interdiction, .408 Cheytac..
those cost more than the 50's tho..
IF youre looking for hard target interdiction, .408 Cheytac..
those cost more than the 50's tho..
Alternative to the Big 50 BMG
- Thread starter Harve Curry
- Start date
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.45-70 was first. Later they started extending the cartridge to pack in more power. I think they were at -110 or -120 before they went to the .50-70 for a while. Remember that on these cartridges, the second number is the grains of blackpowder loaded.
13-14 pounds is light compared to most .50 BMGs. I suppose I'd have to clarify saying compared to the expected recoil. I'd be going for one of those heavier barrels, but the question would be, with modern loads, how bad would it kick?
My main thought with this caliber was to allow the bigger bullet selections. Lyman's 48th shows 292 to 405gr for the lever guns, and 300 to 535gr for modern bolt action conversions(the book didn't mention any rolling or falling block actions there, I'll have to look that up elsewhere. Thought there were some modern production Sharps types that could do smokeless). Funny thing, others, like the 458 Weatherby Magnum didn't mention bullets heavier than 500 grains.
Put a good FMJ boattail spitzer point on top of a load of smokeless powder, and are you going to get out of a .45-70(or -100 or whatever)? If nobody's messed with it, I'll certainly be finding out eventually(when I have the money to buy the rifle, and the time to load for it). More interesting to me, what happens if I put a .270 bullet in a sabot in there? Some of the little reading I've done on sabots(hard thing to find info on) says that they aren't real good for long range accuracy, but for getting a very fast bullet, it might be interesting to look at.
13-14 pounds is light compared to most .50 BMGs. I suppose I'd have to clarify saying compared to the expected recoil. I'd be going for one of those heavier barrels, but the question would be, with modern loads, how bad would it kick?
My main thought with this caliber was to allow the bigger bullet selections. Lyman's 48th shows 292 to 405gr for the lever guns, and 300 to 535gr for modern bolt action conversions(the book didn't mention any rolling or falling block actions there, I'll have to look that up elsewhere. Thought there were some modern production Sharps types that could do smokeless). Funny thing, others, like the 458 Weatherby Magnum didn't mention bullets heavier than 500 grains.
Put a good FMJ boattail spitzer point on top of a load of smokeless powder, and are you going to get out of a .45-70(or -100 or whatever)? If nobody's messed with it, I'll certainly be finding out eventually(when I have the money to buy the rifle, and the time to load for it). More interesting to me, what happens if I put a .270 bullet in a sabot in there? Some of the little reading I've done on sabots(hard thing to find info on) says that they aren't real good for long range accuracy, but for getting a very fast bullet, it might be interesting to look at.
redneck2
Member
Mine is the Winchester .45-90, which is pretty much identical to the Sharps .45 2.4, which is also about the same as a .458 Winchester IIRC
I believe my BPCR weighs 11.2#. Right at whatever the limit is for BPCR. You can go to their website to check specifics. Mine has the Quigley style vernier tang rear sight, globe front sight with spirit level, Badger barrel.
With a 400-500 grain bullet at 1,300 fps, recoil is real manageable. Since mine has a modern barrel, it can be safely loaded up to .458 mag levels, but I see no need to take the pounding you'd get.
I guess the point is, you don't have to get a super speed, super belted, super magnum. Do they shoot flatter?? yeah. Is it absolutely necessary? No.
Nobody has really mentioned scoping the rifle. Most 1" scopes don't have enough adjustment to compensate for the bullet drop at 1,000 yards, hence the offset mounts on my 7 mag. You also need to figure what the size of your target is. Too much maginification and mirage can be a problem. Too little magnification with a small target and it's hard to see.
Seems to me from a quick look at componet prices that you are takeing a huge step up in price whenever you go bigger than 30 caliber.
For just plain target shooting at known ranges 308 has a lot going for it although the 30 mags help you deal with the wind.The smaller stuff like the special purpose 6mm and 7mm cartridges will shoot flatter which can be helpfull at unknown ranges but hotter cartridges tend to have shorter barrel life before accuracy falls off due to throat erosion ect.Again the mild 308 will get better barrel life than lots of the mags.
If your desire for a long range gun involves trying to punch big holes in something other than paper or small animals there is no subsitite for horsepower and the 338's and 350's start comeing into their own but the cost starts to spiral up
For just plain target shooting at known ranges 308 has a lot going for it although the 30 mags help you deal with the wind.The smaller stuff like the special purpose 6mm and 7mm cartridges will shoot flatter which can be helpfull at unknown ranges but hotter cartridges tend to have shorter barrel life before accuracy falls off due to throat erosion ect.Again the mild 308 will get better barrel life than lots of the mags.
If your desire for a long range gun involves trying to punch big holes in something other than paper or small animals there is no subsitite for horsepower and the 338's and 350's start comeing into their own but the cost starts to spiral up
Harve Curry
Member
Mike Venturino did some tests with the 45-70 at the Yuma Proving Grounds. They were able to track the bullet's trajectory. I remember reading it surprised the staff there of a 45-70's range.
I was thinking of modern smokeless cartridge with a long heavy bullet, with components that are already available off the shelf.
I was thinking of modern smokeless cartridge with a long heavy bullet, with components that are already available off the shelf.
smokemaker
Member
In the .45-70, with the 520 grainers and 65 grains of ffg pyrodex, my calculations have the bullet topping out 54 feet over line of sight on it's way to 1000 yards. It takes about 4 or so seconds to hear the buffalo ring. This is out of my Remington rolling block mid-range sporter from the custom shop. My favorite rifle. (For now)
)rangerruck
Member
460 chey-tac. barrett , i think , is also making a 458 barrett, i think that is the name. for the more common, the 338 lapua seems to get the 1000+yard nod.
Darth Muffin
member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2005
- Messages
- 184
Have you looked at the .25-06? It's a .30-06 necked down to .25 cal. My dad has one and he's competed in (and won a trophy in) a dynamite shoot where the minimum range was 1500 yards.
Orr89rocz
Member
I want to talk to my dads friends who shoot near 1 mile at their property. they use 300 weatherby mags, or the big 30-378. i think thats a great cartridge for long range....delivers good bullets at a high velocity. military uses the 338 lapua which also is a great cartridge. i think any of the BIG 30 cases or the big 338's are great choices
too bad barrel life is limited somewhat
too bad barrel life is limited somewhat
06
Member
You just made "Senior"-congrats from a newbie here. I am an '06 nut(notice handle-lol) and after all the hoopla of high dollar rounds and iron your post just made me smile----"Just pointing out that in terms of military cartridges suitable for the ordinary mortal's ordinary shoulder and ordinary ears, the .30-06 isn't too bad"----I pick at 308 shooters just for fun but one does not want someone shooting at them at 1K yds with either. To be reasonably sure of consistant hits on "moving targets" with average skill you need to cut that range nearly in half. We are not all "White Feathers" and cannot afford the time/expense to become so. Get a good barreled/bedded/scoped reasonably priced shooter and enjoy the sport. That way if you need it-"you got it". wc
Anyone thought about the .378 Weatherby? The factory ammo is expensive, but can be reloaded for @ $1.50ish a round (maybe less) and that would of course be a custom load. Weatherby publishes it's 270gr Spire point to have 2017fps and 2440ftlbs at 500yds with a 37 inch drop. It's 270gr Barnes X is running 2250fps and 3030ftlbs at 500yds with a 34 inch drop. I've hunted with this caliber and it would be a bad day at the office on the receiving end (so to speak). Ammo is tough to find and limited number of guns chambered for it are the two biggest setbacks. Although Sportsmans Warehouse and Cabellas do carry it. I'm sure there are better/close ballistic numbers out there, but consider the bullets. The .300 Winmag and .300 RUM approach these numbers, with a bullet weight almost 100grns lighter. Fast and "light", or fast and "heavy"??? Perspective is everything, a 270grn .378 is light compared to a 750grn .50 BMG. We are after all highlighting our favorites, aren't we !!!!!!
!!!!!!- Status
