Am I starting to go crazy in my "old age"?

[chaim]

OK, my thoughts on what to carry if (starting to really look like when) I get to a carry state in a few months are getting a bit more solidified.

For an auto I will start out with a 1911. Out of all my autos, I have owned my 1911 the longest and the CZs (I have one, had two) have essentially the same manual of arms for all practical purposes (CZs are DA/SA but my CZs have/had the traditional CZ safety) so I am pretty comfortable and familiar with the manual of arms.

However, I have also been thinking about a pocket gun. For larger pocket gun roles (summer carry for instance) when I want something as big as I can go (as I may carry only the pocket gun) I was going to go w/ my Bersa until I got a Kahr, but the past few days I was thinking about one of the 3" or 3 1/2" 1911s for pocket carry duties.

Stay with me, that might not be that odd, though I would like input on pocket carry of a SA gun.

While the idea of a SA gun never bothered me, but for pocket carry I had never really been comfortable with the idea of anything but DAO or DA revolvers (allowing for decocked DA/SA autos as well even though they aren't ideal). Anyone carry SA guns in pocket? In drawing from a pocket does anyone have trouble reaching the safety?

Also, I thought on it further. You know, a DAO auto or DA revolver relies on a heavy trigger pull and your training to keep your finger off the trigger until time to actually fire as the only safeties. The 1911 has two manual safeties. So I got to thinking:

A good holster, especially a pocket holster, will cover the trigger. For quicker draw I was thinking about carrying a 1911 in the pocket without the thumb safety. It still has the grip safety so it isn't going to do anything without your intentionally firing it. In addition to the grip safety (hey sitting just right that your pants tighten might release the safety) a quality holster that covers the trigger should keep something from accidentally depressing the trigger. No one here relies on their safety once they draw to keep from firing, you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire (we have all trained 'till we can reliably say we are there, right). So, given the grip safety and a good holster why should this be any less safe than a DAO or snub that relies only on the trigger pull (and good holster)?

To some extent I am only thinking out loud here but I do want your imput. I am actually thinking about this and may even choose to carry this way. I don't live in a carry state so my carry experience is limited to around the house and maybe a couple very rare situations where it seemed prudent to carry for a short period of time (one errand in a bad area, or carrying lots of cash) so I would really appreciate comments from those who have CCW experience.

 

[Gordon]

1911's while the best format IMHO work best in 5" length steel frame. 4"Commander lenths can be made to work and are much more packable. I've never used a Kahr , because I like 1911 format. Star PD's work great IF you find one. I tried Glock 27 and am a little scared with loaded chamber. They DO carry nice! What I've come up with in auto is the minimum 9X18 PA-63 , which always works , is light at 21 OZ. safe to carry loaded in chamber IMO and with Novak Sights and refinish I'll be in it $400. This is POCKET CARRY gun. (I hate .380's and aside from my 1906 Colt and Mod 51 Rem will never own or carry one ---again)

 

[Logistar]

I can (and do) carry a 9mm polymer gun in my pocket. Even at 18 ounces it seems a bit heavy. You might check out a small 9mm polymer gun from Kahr, etc.

Weight is a factor in addition to size for me.

I don't think DA or DAO is as bad as a lot of people claim. My sister (who is getting her CCW) asked me about it. I drew quickly from a crossdraw position (one shot) and I was 2.25 inches off dead center using a target 15 feet away. - not that I can always do that but I am happy with DAO at defensive distances. -practice is everything!

I can't really tell the difference in my SA/DA accuracy. It is certainly not enough to bother me.

YMMV

Logistar

 

[E357]

A good holster, especially a pocket holster, will cover the trigger. For quicker draw I was thinking about carrying a 1911 in the pocket without the thumb safety.

At some "gun game" maybe you could practice this. Buy, NEVER, NEVER on a daily carry 1911. If you insist at least get a model 80 style 1911.

Elliot

 

[Art Eatman]

My carry gun since 1981 has been a fully dehorned LightWeight Commander. I've never had to defend myself with it, but it has been a welcome companion. It's certainly light enough; I'm now using a Coronado vest, and it's not particularly noticeable for "sag". The thumb safety is zero problem, just as in IPSC...

Pocket pistol? If not something like a Kahr, give at least some thought to one of these NAA Mini-Mag five-shot revolvers. Practice with cocking with the left thumb allows surprisingly accurate rapid fire.

I always wanted to really dehorn one of those Llama .380s, but never got around to it. With Glazers, they'd be somewhat discouraging in the average Bad Guy situation...

, Art

 

[Boats]

I'd like to see some fashion pics of all of these "pocket concealed" pistols and revolvers I keep hearing about here. Perhaps they don't look too obvious if one's pants, such as they are, are already hanging off of one's butt so that about eight inches of boxers show, in the best MTV tradition.

Looking through my dressier stuff and almost all of my jeans, I find myself saying, "Yeah, right, someone out there is actually concealing Smith J frames or a Kahr in there?" Not without being obvious to even halfhearted scrutiny, irrespective of the pocket holster. It must also make for rapid deployment in the mirror because it can't be too great on the move.

Show us how you do it.

 

[chaim]

Boats, I don't know but it seems to me that with something to break up the outline it would just look like you have junk in there. Sure it won't be a smooth line, but why would someone automatically know it is a gun? I live in MD so I can't legally carry. However, I tend to have a lot of junk in my pockets (cell phone, a key chain w/ car keys, a key wallet for my other keys, kleenex since I have allergies, a small bottle of Advil, breath mints, a pen or two, coins, a defensive pocket knife, a Swiss Army Knife, sometimes pepper spray and sometimes the odd miscellaneous item). When I start carrying guns in one of my pockets it will look like I've actually cut the amount of junk in there (I know, I've seen what it looks like in the mirror).

Sure your pocket won't look empty, but there is no reason one could not conceal a gun in a way that people would just assume it is other pocket junk.

 

[Gordon]

I 'pocket carry' a Colt Agent in a Kramer pocket holster in my right rear 'wallet 'pocket and put the wallet in the left side. So you can 'ease out the wallet'! The pa-63 goes in same place with NO holster so far. Damn that thumbrest on the inside! Incidently my 'Officer comencent series' presentation Colt .45 Has NOT proved reliable for me even after a (light) Heine breathing. I don't trust less than 4" 1911's as far as I've seen....

 

[chaim]

Gordon, I do understand the reputation of the 3" and 3.5" 1911s. There are more bad ones proportionately than with the other 1911 configurations or other compact gun designs. I figure it just becomes a little more important to do the 500 round break-in/test that one should put a new auto through before relying on it. My plan is to, within a year or so, pick up two small 1911s- a Charles Daly 3.5" (I know, but I love my Daly and it has been reliable) and a better, probably aluminum alloy framed, 1911 (probably a SA or Kimber, maybe a Colt Defender) and if one turns out to be less than SD gun reliable it will just be for fun (and if both are good, a steel one and one in alumium alloy will give maximum flexibility). In the same time period and for a little extra flexibility I may pick up a Kimber Pro Carry II as a slightly larger belt gun (I want to carry IWB and I've noticed around the house that after sitting for a while the 5" barrel starts to get noticable- not too uncomfortable and it would be a "stop gap" if I don't yet have a small 1911, it is just noticable and gets slightly unpleasant).

 

[another okie]

The rounded shape of a snubby helps conceal it in a front pocket, and the grip shape is easier to draw from a front pocket than an auto grip. On paper the little Kahrs look better than a snubbie, but the actual ergonomics of a snubbie work great. Now if you wear tight jeans, no, it won't work. When I carry a snubbie it's usually in either khakis or khaki shorts, both of which have pleats in front, big pockets, and a loose fit. All three of these charactertistics are important. Put your 1911 in a belt holster.

 

[Delmar]

The Officers model seems to be the least reliable 1911 model based on what I have heard from others based on personal experience-I don't much care for the opinions of 99% of the gunwriters. The last really good one was Bob Milek IMO.
My wife bought a 1991A1 Compact and it was not a reliable feeder out of the box, but the Kings bushing and spring conversion took care of that issue. I suppose I shouldn't gripe much as the pistol was $350 and parts were $90 including the beavertail, but it has been the only 1911 I ever had to do a thing to-the mods I've made on others were for personal preference only. If you have a stuttering Officers model and don't mind cutting into it a bit, I highly recommend it.

 

[Trisha]

Yep. . .

You're going completely crazy. Can I have your gun collection?



(ducking, and running like mad, laughing merrily!)

Start out simple, chaim. You have to get completely comfortable and invisible in physical presentation with a carry mode/firearm so you don't telegrap what's going on. One step at a time.

I'd keep it simple when & if, after getting that down pat, you adfd a second firearm. I prefer (and have for many years) to carry a shrouded-hammer .357 snubbie. They really don't work very well in a pants pocket in public (YMMV) - a regular rig works much better IWB, belly band, etc.

Take care, OK?

Trisha

 

[Jerry Morris]

I don't know where the legend of 3 inch 1911 unreliability came from. I have two Kimber Ultra Carry pistols. Both are reliable. One had breaking in issues that cleared up in the first hundrede rounds. The other has not failed fron the get-go.

As for the pocket carry, Id go with some other style. I prefer belt carry. Perhaps some type of "UNgun" looking device. If not, then a bellyband would be my choice.

Jerry

 

[caz223]

Actually, check out a star PD.
It's a 1911 clone that's very well built, compact with an alloy frame, and they have an excellent reputation.
Mine feeds anything.
It shoots tight, and is already broken in.
(And I paid less than $300 for it.)

The star PD has no grip safety, no mag safety, and is not safe to carry hammer down.
Gotta carry it C+L.
The safety is very positive, though.