AMA Medical Question - Do you own any guns? Need Info Please

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arbutus

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Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here. If it wound up in the wrong place, please let me know. I have done a search, but didn't see what I was looking for. If this was hashed out before, please provide a link to the thread.

My wife is a nurse who provides care for poor pregnant women. The office she works for has initial assessment forms that have the "Do you own any guns?" question on them. The office is reviewing their forms, and is asking for nurse and doctor input. The question is there, but there are no nurse or doctor interventions done at all, regardless of answer.

My wife will recommend that the question be dropped, but would like some "real" statistics regarding the number of infants / toddlers / young children killed (accidently or deliberately) with firearms actually kept in their own homes.

If the question is not dropped, can anyone recommend pamphlets that encourage responsible gun ownership and safe storage around youngsters?

I have gotten a couple of articles off of the JPFO website, and have seen the boundary line arguments in other links, but haven't come across any numbers type statistics.

Bottom line - my wife has the opportunity to actually help get the AMA question removed, but would like to have supporting information when she makes the recommendation.

Thanks for your help.
 
I have been asked this question at a lot of Dr's offices.
I LIE, every time. I don't refuse to answer it. there are anough questions i won't answer already.
I have asked what the basis of the question is and have gotten so many answers I figure they're lying too.
So, we're even.

AFS
 
American Almanac for death by age groups, etc., but will probably not list if it
was in the home.

Dept of Justice/FBI would have more detailed stats. They have people who
do data collection and analysis full time.
 
I believe the number of bona fide children accidentally killed with firearms is in the neighborhood of 13-20 per YEAR.

You'll have to dig the statistical citations for that out, I'm positive they are on this site.

Furthermore, I'll ask the question I always ask of insane executive who want this, that, or the other data for a report:

"If this number is high/low, yes/no, what are you going to do differently?" The answer is usually "nothing", to which I reply, "then why are you bothering to ask the question?"

And for the record, I never answer that question, it is not medically relevant, no matter how much the AMA wants it to be.

Applying edidemiological methods of analysis to a question does not make that question a medical issue.
 
[SARCASM]Perhaps it should also ask, do you own a car? Do you live higher than the first floor? Do you associate with anyone with a criminal background? Do you associate with anyone who is ill? Do you go outside and take walks? Do you take public transportation? Do you live near a railroad line? Do you own plastic garbage bags? Are you around 5 gallon buckets? etc. etc.[/SARCASM]

Sorry for that, but those questions are just downright wrong to ask.
 
I have been asked this question at a lot of Dr's offices.
I LIE, every time. I don't refuse to answer it.
Our old pediatrician used to give a big questionnaire for every visit. My wife didn't like it the first time and asked me what business it was of his, gave the form back to them blank. I never quite understood his reason for requiring the form, but our current one doesn't do that.

This isn't the reason that we switched docs. In fact, Dr. #1 didn't say anything about not filling out the form.
 
National Safety Council figures would be very helpful (www.nsc.org, I think).

Compare the risk of drowning in a pool to the risk of gun-related death for children under 5 (I think it's a hundred to one on a per-owning-household basis, which makes you wonder why the AAP office handout on child safety doesn't even MENTION swimming pools or drowning for that age group). And a significant number of child gun accidents involve children who live in criminal households, making the true risk for law-abiding and responsible gun owners even lower. The AAP's opposition to gun ownership is completely political.

One very troubling aspect of asking that question is that one's medical records can be browsed WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT by a wide variety of government officials. HIPAA notwithstanding, I would NOT want that information kept forever in a medical file (it is neither your business nor anyone else's), and IMHO you have absolutely no right to ask. By asking, you have put me in the position of having to lie if I want to retain my privacy on that issue (since dodging that question is tantamount to answering "yes," unless I leave the entire questionnaire blank), and I don't like to lie. And since my 6 y.o. son is a special-needs kid (2 open-hearts and 7 angioplasties so far, plus a Ladd procedure and countless therapies and procedures, allergic to amoxicillin/cephalosporins/vancomycin/clindamycin), you guys NEED me to answer that questionnaire if we show up at your office, for legitimate medical reasons.

FWIW, here's how we store our guns. Most of them are kept in a full-size safe for security, but it can be accessed very quickly (~3 seconds). If we are home, one carbine in the safe (either the mini-14 or the SAR-1) will generally have a magazine containing ammunition inserted, but the chamber is not loaded and the rifle is on "safe." We may also keep a handgun in a smaller quick-access pistol lockbox; if it's mine, it's chamber-loaded, magazine inserted, on safe; if it's my wife's, it's chamber empty, magazine loaded. All much more secure than if they were trigger-locked in a simple gun cabinet, while at the same time being very quickly accessible. And since I have a CCW permit, I will occasionally have the firearm on my person.

While we are absent from home, any firearms in the safe will be unloaded and the ammunition stored in a separate cabinet, but when we are home I do NOT equate not being able to access a loaded firearm as "safe storage," any more than I think swimming pools behind locked gates should be emptied when not in use, or that cars in the garage need to have their gasoline drained and stored in the shed.
 
You say "The question is there, but there are no nurse or doctor interventions done at all, regardless of answer." This should be reason enough. Any information beyond establishing identity that is requested that doesn't warrant an action on the part of the care giver doesn't warrnat being asked.
 
As long as we're talking 'statistics', medical malpractice kills some 90,000+ per year (that we know of). Why don't the 'healthcare providers' clean up their own backyard first, before sticking their long pointy noses in other people's business?
 
I kind of like:

"Yes; enough to supply Uganda", but.... :D

(I ignore it.)

My doctor's a little busy. Every [expletive] time I go in for service, he finds something on my belt and asks what the heck it's doing there. I then point to the rent-a-cop badge and.... For about 22 years now....

If he wasn't seriously competent, I'd find another one.

Saw a movie the other night (DVD) "What the bleep do we know?" or something like that. All about Quantum Physics and other crazy stuff. I would have turned it off, but.... IAC, one point somebody made is that if you are not prepared to see something - saw it in a book, for example - you just don't see it. Their example was the Native Peoples where Columbus originally landed. I think it's nonsense, except for my doctor....

Regards,
 
this must be my tinfoil hat inside me coming out but does anyone else see a big problem with a form, innocently filled out at a Dr. office or hospital that has your name, address, phone number, emergency contacts, social security number AND the fact that you own guns on it? if you were a corrupt gov't that wanted to confiscate firearms wouldn't that be a great resource for who's house to go to? [/tinfoil]

Bobby
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'll check out the places some of you gave for more info, and dig a bit further on this site.

Just so everyone is clear - My wife is a nurse who has patients fill out the form. The form is being reviewed this Friday, and my wife will be pushing to have this question dropped.

I have a big problem with the question, and it is probably due to one of my many rants that my wife is even pursuing this. I'm proud of her, but neither of us have any idea what kind of reaction she will get when she submits her request.
 
this must be my tinfoil hat inside me coming out but does anyone else see a big problem with a form, innocently filled out at a Dr. office or hospital that has your name, address, phone number, emergency contacts, social security number AND the fact that

You mean like a database of all the info compiled from the Insta Check system?
I'm not saying they're saving it, but I wouldn't be suprised if they were. All that juicy data is too valuable to just delete.
I don't know the current status, but the Pa. State Police has/had such a database in violation of the law but decided to do it anyway.
My daughters (private) school asked how many of their parents had guns. I had forewarned her to tell no-one about my/our guns, and she didn't. :neener:
Maybe Dale Gribble is right!
 
Arbutus,

The CDC has a component called the National Center for Injury Prevention and COntrol. THe CDC is a fairly anti-gun organization.

They have a neat little tool that you ( or they) can use for research.

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

Searching for Unintentional deaths, Firearm, Children 0-4 and 4-9, I get the result of *26* deaths.

Searching for Unintentional Deaths, Drowning, same age group, I get *676* deaths.

I'm not even going to go into motor vehicles.


Oh, and Welcome to THR! :)
-James
 
Boundary Violation:
Gun Politics in the Doctor’s Office
Timothy Wheeler, MD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appeared originally in the Medical Sentinel of the
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons,
March/April 1999, pp. 60-61

Imagine this scenario: you visit your doctor for back pain. Your doctor asks if you have firearms in your home. Then he announces that your family would be better off (especially your children) if you had no guns at all in your house. You leave the doctor’s office feeling uneasy, wondering what guns have to do with your backache. Does your doctor care about your family’s safety? Or instead, did he use your trust and his authority to advance a political agenda?
American families may soon find themselves in this scenario. Social activists are taking their war on gun ownership to a new battleground: the doctor’s office. (1) The American Medical Association (AMA) (2), American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) (3), and American College of Physicians (ACP) (4) are urging doctors to probe their patients about guns in their homes. They profess concern for patient safety. But their ulterior motive is a political prejudice against guns and gun owners. And that places their interventions into the area of unethical physician conduct called boundary violations.

Doctor-patient sex is the most well-known and sensational example of a boundary violation. More recent literature recognizes a wide variety of nonsexual violations. (5) These cover such issues as finances, confidentiality, and gratification of the doctor’s needs. Although boundary violations were first addressed in the psychiatry literature, it has become clear that they also occur in general medical practice. (6)

Boundaries in the doctor-patient relationship derive naturally from the relationship’s fiduciary nature. In general, "treatment boundaries can be defined as the set of rules that establishes the professional relationship as separate from other relationships and protects the patient from harm. A patient who seeks medical or psychiatric treatment is often in a uniquely dependent, anxious, vulnerable, and exploitable state. In seeking help, patients assume positions of relative powerlessness in which they expose their weaknesses, compromise their dignity, and reveal intimacies of body or mind, or both." (7)

Thus compromised, the patient relies heavily on the physician to act only in the patient’s interest and not the physician’s. A doctor must put the patient’s needs before his own. But a physician reverses the priorities when because of passionate political beliefs he tries to influence his patient against guns. This physician puts his own need to "do something" about the perceived evil of guns before the needs of his patient. He crosses the line from healer to political activist. Such doctor-on-patient political activism is recognized in Epstein and Simon’s Exploitation Index (8) as a boundary violation.

Just as some physician sexual transgressors may insist their sex relations with a patient are therapeutic, the activist doctor may protest that he only seeks to prevent "gun violence." However, the conduct of the medical activists strongly indicates that their interest in patients’ guns is political, not therapeutic.

The AAP, ACP, and AMA are members of the Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan (HELP) Network, based in Chicago. HELP is an exclusive advocacy group dedicated to banning guns. Physicians who disagree with HELP’s anti-gun agenda are barred from attending HELP’s conferences, a policy unthinkable in any scientific organization. HELP’s founder and leader Dr. Katherine Christoffel has compared guns to viruses that must be eradicated. (9) The group’s militant advocacy has no place for differing viewpoints on firearms, and apparently neither do the medical organizations which have signed on as HELP members.

In fact, the AAP has adopted its "gun safety instruction" patient materials from the gun-ban lobby Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI). The AAP and Handgun Control, Inc.’s informational wing the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence advise families in their STOP pamphlet, "The safest thing is to not have a gun in your home, especially not a handgun." (10) And a survey of pediatricians showed 76% supported a ban on handguns. (11) Patients who seek objective advice on firearm safety should not look to pediatricians as a group. And any doctor should know that patient counseling based on these materials is politics, not medicine.

Perhaps the most revealing aspect of organized medicine’s anti-gun bias is its persistent refusal to address the criminology literature on guns. For over twenty years, criminologists have studied firearms, their use and misuse, their risks and benefits. Especially in the last two years prominent researchers have found that firearm ownership is not the scourge that medical activists have claimed it to be. The best and latest research finds that private gun ownership by responsible citizens not only is safe, but protects the individual as well as his community from violent crime. (12)

One would think that medical firearm researchers would be intensely interested in this scholarship. But so far the editorial boards of the journals of the AAP, AMA, and ACP have neither responded to nor acknowledged it. With their silence these editors have effectively ended whatever credibility they had in firearm research. That field of study is apparently useful to them only as a vehicle for the advancement of their political goal of gun prohibition. When the scientific process yields knowledge contrary to that goal, activists either attack its author (13) or ignore it altogether. Such conduct is inexcusable in any area of scientific endeavor. Honest scientists face conflicting data objectively. And honest doctors do not use biased research to give false authority to their negative feelings about guns.

So how can a patient tell if his doctor’s advice about guns is good preventive medicine or political activism? Patients can assess a doctor’s advice by keeping the following questions in mind:

Does the doctor respect your right to keep guns? Or does he subtly send a message that guns are somehow bad? Moral judgments about the right to self defense, hunting, or other legitimate uses of guns are not acceptable subjects for a doctor talking to a patient. Does the doctor quote statistics from the American Academy of Pediatrics or the American Medical Association about the supposed risks of guns in the home? Do you see anti-gun posters or pamphlets from these organizations in her office? These materials are based on the "advocacy science" of anti-gun activists like Dr. Arthur Kellermann, much of which was funded by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Congress cut off all the CDC’s 1997 funding for gun research because of the CDC’s anti-gun bias. (14) No doctor who knows firearms would base her advice on this frankly political literature. Is the doctor familiar with the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) Eddie Eagle gun safety program for children, or other established gun safety education programs? If not, is she interested in learning about them? Unlike the AAP’s Stop program, Eddie Eagle educational materials for children contain no political or moral judgment about guns. This NRA program has been honored by the National Safety Council, the American Legion, and the governments of 19 states. The Eddie Eagle slogan "If you see a gun, Stop, Don’t touch, Leave the area, Tell an adult" was even endorsed by the generally anti-gun California Medical Association (CMA). (15) Despite intense publicity for the AAP’s Stop program and similar initiatives, most doctors shy away from scrutinizing their patients’ gun ownership. In a recent study 91% of surveyed doctors felt that firearm violence is a public health issue. But only 3% said they frequently talk to patients about firearms in the home. Two thirds of the surveyed doctors said they never talk to patients about the subject. (16) This may indicate that although they are generally concerned about firearm injuries, doctors do not see politically motivated patient counseling as appropriate professional conduct.

In a revealing section, the AAP’s Stop speaker’s kit warns would-be lecturers of "resistant audiences" who may disagree with them on scientific or ideological grounds. One section offers talking points for dealing with these "challenging individuals." (17) The kit’s authors seem to anticipate their audiences may recognize its political nature.

Patients do have remedies for the boundary-crossing doctor. In today’s competitive health care market most patients can choose from many doctors. Changing doctors is the simplest solution. A written complaint to the health plan’s membership services department can send a powerful message that boundary violations by doctors will not be tolerated. If the problem persists, patients can file a complaint with the doctor’s state licensing board. Medical licensing boards are increasingly aware of the problem of boundary violations. Although state boards have addressed primarily sexual and financial misconduct, the broad principles they have developed to guide doctors in these areas apply to the entire doctor-patient relationship. (18, 19)

The author cannot advise the reader to take a particular course of action. A patient confronted with physician misconduct must decide for himself which action, if any, to take. But patients should realize they do have choices in dealing with physician boundary violations involving political activism, especially in such personal matters as firearm ownership. And physicians should be aware of the personal risks they take when they bring political activism into the exam room.

Endnotes

HELP Network News, Winter / Spring 1998, p. 1. This quarterly newsletter is published by the Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan (HELP) Network.
Ibid. p. 2.
American Academy of Pediatrics Policy Statement, vol. 89, no. 4, April, Part 2, 1992, pp. 788-790.
American College of Physicians Position Paper, "Firearm Injury Prevention," Annals of Internal Medicine, 1998, vol. 128, no. 3, p. 238.
Frick, D., "Nonsexual Boundary Violations in Psychiatric Treatment," Review of Psychiatry, vol. 13, (Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Press, Inc.), 1994, pp. 415-432.
Hundert, E., and Appelbaum, P., "Boundaries in Psychotherapy: Model Guidelines," Psychiatry, vol. 58, November 1995, pp. 346-347.
See reference 5, p. 416.
See reference 5, pp. 418-419 reprinted with permission from the Bulletin of the Menninger Clinic, vol. 56, no. 2, pp. 165-166, The Menninger Foundation, 1992.
Somerville, J., "Gun Control as Immunization," American Medical News, Jan. 3, 1994, p. 9.
"Keep Your Family Safe From Firearm Injury," American Academy of Pediatrics and Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, 1996.
Olson, L., and Christoffel, K., "Pediatricians’ Experience With and Attitudes Toward Firearms," Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, vol. 151, April 1997.
Lott, J., More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press), 1998.
Ibid. pp. 122-157.
Report from the Committee on Appropriations, U.S. House of Representatives: Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Bill, 1997, p. 49.
California Medical Association, Actions of the House of Delegates 1995, San Francisco 1995, Resolution 109-95, p. 9. The Eddie Eagle slogan was originally introduced in a resolution crediting its creator, the National Rifle Association (NRA). But the CMA Delegates refused to mention the NRA in the final version of Resolution 109-95, preferring instead to credit the California Department of Justice. This agency had adopted the Eddie Eagle slogan in its own gun safety program.
Cassel, C.K., and Nelson, B., "Internists’ and Surgeons’ Attitudes Toward Guns and Firearm Injury Prevention," Annals of Internal Medicine, 1998; vol. 128, pp. 224-30.
American Academy of Pediatrics, "Preventing Firearm Injury: Protecting Our Children Speaker’s Kit," tab 1, section 5, Elk Grove Village (Illinois), 1998.
Medical Board of California Action Report, April 1996, p. 3, California Department of Consumer Affairs, Sacramento, California.
Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine, "General Guidelines Related to the Maintenance of Boundaries in the Practice of Psychotherapy by Physicians (Adult Patients)," Boston.
~~~o~~~

Timothy Wheeler, MD is Director of Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership,
a project of The Claremont Institute.

~~~o~~~

copyright © 1999 The Claremont Institute
 
Every time organized medicine comes up, somebody brings up the issue of "boundary violations", and I always feel compelled to respond.

First, let me say I am a practicing surgeon, and will be the first to tell you that organized medicine is anti-gun. The AMA declared gun injuries a public health problem a few years ago. The American Academy of Pediatrics is even worse on the gun issue. Both organizations have called for heavy regulation, if not an outright ban, on hand gun ownership.

As a result of the AMA's views on guns, I resigned my membership 4 or 5 years ago, and explained why I was quitting in a letter to them.

Now, that said, I will address the issue of whether or not this is a "boundary violation". There is a general misconception as to who actually establishes the so-called boundary. Unfortunately, it is not you, the medical consumer, but instead it is organized medicine. Organized medicine is pushing an anti-gun agenda. Therefore organized medicine says that gun-related questions are within the boundaries of medical practice.

You may disagree. If you do, too bad. File a complaint with your state medical board for a boundary violation on this issue if you want. They are legally required to investigate it. The investigation will end about 5 minutes after it starts, with the judgement being made it is not a boundary violation.

You can take it to the next level if you want, and try to sue your doctor. Of course, you probably won't be able to find a lawyer who would take such a bad case, but maybe you can find someone desperate. The doctor's lawyer will make a few calls, and you will see the AMA and AAP line up "experts" from here to Washington who are willing to testify, under oath, that these questions are within the standard practice of medicine, as established by, guess who, organized medicine.

It is simply a fight you cannot win through legal or bureaucratic means.

So, is there a solution? Yes, and a very easy one. FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR. Not everyone asks these questions. I never have, and never will. Tell your doctor why you are leaving him. When he sees $$$ going to his competition, he will re-think his questions.
 
Every time organized medicine comes up, somebody brings up the issue of "boundary violations", and I always feel compelled to respond.

First, let me say I am a practicing surgeon, and will be the first to tell you that organized medicine is anti-gun. The AMA declared gun injuries a public health problem a few years ago. The American Academy of Pediatrics is even worse on the gun issue. Both organizations have called for heavy regulation, if not an outright ban, on hand gun ownership.

As a result of the AMA's views on guns, I resigned my membership 4 or 5 years ago, and explained why I was quitting in a letter to them.

Now, that said, I will address the issue of whether or not this is a "boundary violation". There is a general misconception as to who actually establishes the so-called boundary. Unfortunately, it is not you, the medical consumer, but instead it is organized medicine. Organized medicine is pushing an anti-gun agenda. Therefore organized medicine says that gun-related questions are within the boundaries of medical practice.

You may disagree. If you do, too bad. File a complaint with your state medical board for a boundary violation on this issue if you want. They are legally required to investigate it. The investigation will end about 5 minutes after it starts, with the judgement being made it is not a boundary violation.

You can take it to the next level if you want, and try to sue your doctor. Of course, you probably won't be able to find a lawyer who would take such a bad case, but maybe you can find someone desperate. The doctor's lawyer will make a few calls, and you will see the AMA and AAP line up "experts" from here to Washington who are willing to testify, under oath, that these questions are within the standard practice of medicine, as established by, guess who, organized medicine.

It is simply a fight you cannot win through legal or bureaucratic means.

So, is there a solution? Yes, and a very easy one. FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR. Not everyone asks these questions. I never have, and never will. Tell your doctor why you are leaving him. When he sees $$$ going to his competition, he will re-think his questions.

Finally, as to the article quoted by Timothy Wheeler, MD, I think you need to take that with a grain of salt. I had never heard of the Medical Sentinel of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons until I read that article. I have never heard of Timothy Wheeler, MD, until then either. While I have no doubt he is pro-gun, his tactics of calling this a boundary violation are unfounded. Note that the article was written in 1999. If there was any legal truth to this being a boundary violation, then why would we still be discussing this six years later?
 
Lemme throw in my $.02

You cannot get through medical school without, at some point, having some instructor mention to you how much danger having a gun in the house exposes the occupants to. In my own experience, there has never been supporting evidence of such presented in the classroom, but it is taught along with asking about other "high-risk" behaviors such as not wearing a seatbelt, and not wearing a condom.

Theoretically, if a patient has a gun in the house, you are to advise them to store them safely, and out of the reach of children. The idea is that it is a kind of lifestyle modification which will lead to decreased morbidity and mortality associated with firearms injuries.

In reality, I view firearms handling education to be a far more efficacious way to prevent accidental firearms injuries, not unlike teaching children to swim if you have a pool. While the gate around the pool, or thesafe around the gun may protect your child from THAT gun or pool, learning to swim and handle a gun will protect your child from EVERY pool and gun. Yes, I know that it is an imperfect analogy, but the bottom line is that there will be other guns and other bodies of water which will not be locked up, and your child's training and judgement is a far better guarantee of their safety than any padlock.

Also, I generally do not ask about whether my patients have guns in their house. It's none of my frikken business. However, I do advise that whether or not they have a gun in the house, they should have their children taught firearms safety (even if it is to leave it alone). You may not have a gun in your house, but when they grow older, they may go to a party where they are drinking and their friend who is hosting it may think in his drunken stupor that it would be cool to show off his dad's .38.

And yes, the AMA is anti-gun, and I am quite sure that somewhere it must have occured to them that telling a mother that the old .45 her husband owns is the biggest threat to her precious toddler's life may induce her to force dad to lock it up or get rid of it.

I have never actually written a prescription for gun safety classes for a child, but I am waiting for the chance to do so for some GFW mother. If she complains, then I guess I could point out that it is the left who is trying to make a healthcare issue of it.
 
Last time I was at the Dr's here we discussed his son who was finishing up a mech. eng. degree at the state university and had built an AR receiver for a school project. He mentioned he'd also just bought a 50 BMG rifle - don't know what for - I don't know anything about them and couldn't offer any intelligent discussion regarding them. I invited him to our winter indoor pistol shooting club - he said he'd stop by this year as he could use some practice.
He didn't ask me if I owned any guns, I'm sure he knew I had one with me.
 
Bobarino said:
this must be my tinfoil hat inside me coming out but does anyone else see a big problem with a form, innocently filled out at a Dr. office or hospital that has your name, address, phone number, emergency contacts, social security number AND the fact that you own guns on it? if you were a corrupt gov’t that wanted to confiscate firearms wouldn’t that be a great resource for who’s house to go to?

A) Unless you have purchased all your firearms “illegally,” you are probably already “registered” as a gun owner.

B) There will never be mass confiscation of firearms in the United States, as it is a completely unnecessary step in the disarmament process.

So don’t worry about lists and just let the AMA spin its wheels.

~G. Fink
 
Originally posted by Gordon Fink

A) Unless you have purchased all your firearms “illegally,” you are probably already “registered” as a gun owner.

B) There will never be mass confiscation of firearms in the United States, as it is a completely unnecessary step in the disarmament process.

So don’t worry about lists and just let the AMA spin its wheels.

Well, as far as I know, thanks to a republican White House BATF has started to actually respect the laws made by Congress and is not retaining records of the NICS transactions. Thus, there is no registration unless you live in one of the "european" states. In Maryland there is effectively registration of handguns but not of long guns.

Regarding mass confiscation I wouldn't bet on it. Look at NO, NYC, DC. Perhaps California will be next...

In any case I could answer honestly. Do I own any gun? NO. In fact it is the guns who own me! :D
 
Well, as far as I know, thanks to a republican White House BATF has started to actually respect the laws made by Congress and is not retaining records of the NICS transactions.

Believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, too? Is there actual proof that the feds are indeed complying with this directive or are you just relying on faith?
 
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