amazing Korean archers

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OK Tellner, let's do the math. 1000 musketeers v. 1000 archers.

Say this was a battle >1630s after introduction of volley-fire tactics & flint (snaphance) muskets:
Musketeers fought in ranks of 5-10 (let's say 5 ranks of 200 men each) with 2ranks able to fire each volley 2X200 = 400 musketballs per volley. Firing by introduction or reduction, all ranks would be able to fire in about 1 minute (only very highly trained soldiers, say the Swedes). Total musketballs first minute = 1000. Each musketeer typically carried 13 measured rounds of ball+ammo on his bandolier. So maximum available firepower per battle = 13,000 musketballs.

Archers fought in ranks of 5-10 and every rank would fire using overhead fire. Asiatic archers carried up to 4 quivers into battle of ~20 arrows per quiver. Each volley =1000 arrows. Rate of fire using unaimed overhead fire ~ 10-20/minute. Total loosed arrows in one minute ~10,000-20,000. Total arrows launched per battle: 20-40,000 arrows.

Lead musketballs were more debilitating & could penetrate ranks, but sheer numbers of arrows would make a difference.

As for accuracy, aimed bowfire was by far more accurate than smoothbore muskets of the 1500-1850's. In terms of range, Imperial battle bows of China had draws of over 220lbs. The farthest recorded travel distance of composite bow arrows were over 800-yards in Turkey.

This is why Asiatic armies were late to adopt firearms.

The real advantage of muskets v. archers is that a good archer took a lifetime to create & maintain. They had to be trained from childhood, and any stoppage would destroy a lifetimes worth of training. During a campaign, the efficiency of archers would drop drastically due to tiredness, sickness, bad food, etc. Bows were also expensive.

Musketeers were cheap, draft any peasant, drill him for 2 weeks and he had rudimentary musketry skills for life. His skills could actually improve over the course of a campaign. Besides, muskets were cheap to manufacture.

It was a matter of economics that firearms superceded bowcraft.
 
So the horse nomad lifestyle, where every boy used a bow as soon as he could lift both ends off the ground, reduced the cost enough to make mounted archery a worthwhile style of warfare. Interesting.
 
We had a history demonstration type rondyvoo at Lecompton KS last weekend and I did a show and tell on Native American archery.Part of my demo is showing the kids how fast an archer can shoot and reload compared to the fellow with the muzzle loader.30 seconds between shots if on foot and loading from the horn is a good average for a muzzleloader and I could get 6 arrows off and,usually,into the target while explaining this to the schoolkids in 30 seconds.And,as I told them,I'm not even that good at it....
 
Very good shooting there. Now that I think of it, a bow of some kind might be a viable home defense weapon in places like DC - and about the only legal kind of ranged weapon.
 
Very good shooting there. Now that I think of it, a bow of some kind might be a viable home defense weapon in places like DC - and about the only legal kind of ranged weapon.

Better off with a spear. Longer range than almost any swung weapon, can be used in a hallway or other tight space where you have no swinging room, can be used to "push" someone away as well as stab them (as long as it's a design with a "hilt" type of thing that I forget the name of), and there's no chance of it going through a wall and hitting someone on the other side. Plus it can be thrown if necessary.
 
tellner, I read somewhere that Ben Franklin proposed organising a group of archers during the American Revolution. I have no doubt they would have been formidible if there had been a manpower pool already accustomed to archery from which the group could have been assembled. Archery equipment is easily produced, requiring little technology but takes a substantial investment of time to master. Firearms require considerable technology to produce but little practice to use to the military standard of the day.

If it were possible to pit an egual number of archers of the caliber of those Henry V commanded against troops armed with flintlock muskets, I believe I'd put my money on the archers.

Steve
 
I am Korean. Koreans are not Mongols, lol :). Here is a wiki with some info about Korea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea

Korea is number 1 in Archery. I had the privilige of learning alot from the head Korean Olympic Archery Team coach last year here at Texas A&M (Frank Thomas who was the coach for the US team is also here). I took an extended break from practicing after I disconnected my shoulder a while ago. I need to get back into practice with the Archery team now that I've healed up.

#1 thing to getting good with a bow or anything is commiting yourself to it and spending alot of time on the range.
 
The Koreans are masterful archers, they are not however Mongols. They're former Olympic coach Kim Sik Li(sic), coached the Australians to Gold in the Sydney Olympics, and is now the U.S. Coach, I believe. He does travel expounding the virtues of his BEST system. I would very much like to take one his seminars someday.

As to the Mongol battle tactics. They were unbeatable until they entered the forrests of Europe, and the open seas. Thousands died trying to invade Japan. And they were defeated when they reached the Mediterranean. Hitler was a student of Mongol tactics and patterned his Blitzkrieg after them.
 
As tellner posted, using the thumbring and shooting from the wrong side of the bow made their brand of archery extremely efficient and deadly. It took away the paradox of the arrow trying to get around the shelf and used that energy more efficiently.
Mongol style Horsebows are awesome pieces of equipment and underscore the genius of their makers.
 
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