1 old 0311
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Saw on the news today there was a house fire. The fireman they interviewed said they heard ammo going off in the fire so they let the house "control burn" rather than putting it out. Do we need a seperate fire safe for our ammo?
Ammo and house fires.
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I guess it is their choice, Years ago National Rifleman had an article on a study done by Underwriters Lab (The fire test people). The basic conclusion was that small arms ammo up to and including pallet load sized ammounts did not hold any significant risks for a Fireman in turnout gear and eye protection. They actually said that many household chemicals and aerosol cans had much greater risks.
The ammo will "cook" off but with very little energy. The problem in a residential setting is if a firearm has a cartridge in the chamber and the heat cooks it off the cartridge can fire with a regular level of energy.A revolver would have one round flying down the barrel and the other 5 just blowing up more or less. A semi pistol or rifle could fire multiple times if the barrel heated first and the mag had not yet got hot. This case of multiple shots is unlikely but possible.
You therefore have the situation where the firemen know there is ammo in the house if they hear it cooking off and common scense tells you the will also be guns but the big question is where are they and if they are loaded and where they are pointed.
I don't know if the average Fireman understands that unchambered ammo is fairly risk free but I understand why they don't want to walk into a unknown situation once it is clear there are firearms present.
The ammo will "cook" off but with very little energy. The problem in a residential setting is if a firearm has a cartridge in the chamber and the heat cooks it off the cartridge can fire with a regular level of energy.A revolver would have one round flying down the barrel and the other 5 just blowing up more or less. A semi pistol or rifle could fire multiple times if the barrel heated first and the mag had not yet got hot. This case of multiple shots is unlikely but possible.
You therefore have the situation where the firemen know there is ammo in the house if they hear it cooking off and common scense tells you the will also be guns but the big question is where are they and if they are loaded and where they are pointed.
I don't know if the average Fireman understands that unchambered ammo is fairly risk free but I understand why they don't want to walk into a unknown situation once it is clear there are firearms present.
feedthehogs
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- 1,801
Kevin,
A house down the street from my mothers house was left to burn to the slab after the owner told the fire dept that there was some .22 ammo in an attached utility shed.
He was also arrested and charged with interfering with the fire dept when he tried to put out the fire himself after the fire dept backed off.
To top that all off, his insurance company is fighting paying the claim due to the fact that the ammo prevented the fire dept from trying to save the house.
I built a small utility shed 25 yards from the house with a false wall and store my ammo in 50 cal cans.
A house down the street from my mothers house was left to burn to the slab after the owner told the fire dept that there was some .22 ammo in an attached utility shed.
He was also arrested and charged with interfering with the fire dept when he tried to put out the fire himself after the fire dept backed off.
To top that all off, his insurance company is fighting paying the claim due to the fact that the ammo prevented the fire dept from trying to save the house.
I built a small utility shed 25 yards from the house with a false wall and store my ammo in 50 cal cans.
hotpig
Member
Loaded guns cooking off are a problem. Ammo stored in tight containers can be a problem. House full of ammo is no problem. I deal with them all the time working in a rural area.
Utility sheds and barns with chemical (yard or farm) I do allow to burn since my Department would be liable for the contaminated water run off.
Utility sheds and barns with chemical (yard or farm) I do allow to burn since my Department would be liable for the contaminated water run off.
A coworker of mine had a house fire that totally destroyed the building.
Found an unrifled 30 caliber bullet (NOT cartridge) in the driveway. Hard to imagine that a bullet that didn't even go as far as I could have thrown it would have been a danger to a suited up fireman. To play the devil's advocate, I guess it's possible that it went through something before it got to the driveway.
The firemen did not back off (although they were unable to save anything) and there was no problem with the insurance.
Found an unrifled 30 caliber bullet (NOT cartridge) in the driveway. Hard to imagine that a bullet that didn't even go as far as I could have thrown it would have been a danger to a suited up fireman. To play the devil's advocate, I guess it's possible that it went through something before it got to the driveway.
The firemen did not back off (although they were unable to save anything) and there was no problem with the insurance.
Hotpig's got it.
Don't store your ammo in a safe, presure can build, if and when it cooks off. Exposives storage magazines have a blow out vent for just this reason. Ammo that cooks just pops with no barrel to contain/direct presure. Try not to store too many loaded guns where they will catch fire. Propane tanks, on the other hand, can be very exciting!
Don't store your ammo in a safe, presure can build, if and when it cooks off. Exposives storage magazines have a blow out vent for just this reason. Ammo that cooks just pops with no barrel to contain/direct presure. Try not to store too many loaded guns where they will catch fire. Propane tanks, on the other hand, can be very exciting!
trainwreck100
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I've burned several shotgun shells (had a box of 20ga. shells, but only 12ga guns at the time...now I wish I hadn't burned the 20's) and they don't do half the show of a spray paint can (great fun...you should try it, but watch out for flying metal within 30 feet) Also had a buddy that was short on blood in his alcohol system, and dropped a half dozen .38 cartridges in the cigarette lighter in his chevy. Had a couple brass splinters in his leg, but other than that he was okay (physically) but it wouldn't be any match at all for turnout gear.
Greg
Greg
Their training sucks, it is a problem all the way to the top.
I hope the insurance company subrogates the loss against the town and Dept.
It is well known in up to date trained dept's that ammo cooking off is not a hazard to firefighters.
I hope the insurance company subrogates the loss against the town and Dept.
It is well known in up to date trained dept's that ammo cooking off is not a hazard to firefighters.
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