Ammo change makes my 1911 a Jam-o-matic

[Samuel Adams]

I tried WWB 230g FMJ for the first time today. I have a Charles Daly Government 1911 with two original magazines. In the past I've put about 200 rounds of Blazer FMJ through it with two jams and one failure to extract.

Today's experience with the WWB was very disturbing. The gun jammed at least twice per 7-round mag or failed to lock back on an empty mag twice out of 4 mags fired. :banghead: In addition, during one of the jams, I pulled the magazine out, turned the gun over and racked the slide back to clear it. Instead, the round flipped over and went into the chamber backwards. I had to use my Leatherman to get it out.

I plan on going to the Eastman Gun Show in Savannah this weekend to buy a couple of good magazines and maybe a new extractor. I hope they do the trick because I still have about 85 rounds of WWB left.

 

[Lonestar49]

Quote: I tried WWB 230g FMJ for the first time today. I have a Charles Daly Government 1911 with two original magazines. In the past I've put about 200 rounds of Blazer FMJ through it with two jams and one failure to extract.

Today's experience with the WWB was very disturbing. The gun jammed at least twice per 7-round mag or failed to lock back on an empty mag twice out of 4 mags fired.
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Hmmm, 7 round mags, we talking about a 3" or 4" barreled 1911?

Also, 200 rounds of Blazer, means 200 rounds of dirty ammo that is all over your guns internals along with the mags, as in black powder residue mixed with what ever little amount of oil was on the guides and rails etc.

Mix all that up and ya get a out-of-timing issue with most any 1911, especially a C-Daly, which are much tighter than most..

Think if you take her apart, mags too, and give her a good cleaning, and then make sure she is good and WET (generous helping) with oil on the rails and guides, she'll go back into proper timing for ya, along with the Winchester ammo is a much cleaner burning ammo than Blazer..

I use nothing but Winchester with my 3" Colt Defender, and she can go without any disassembly, just a touch of vertical oiling of the rails, just before I head out, and sing perfect for more than 500 rounds, and I'm sure she could go 800 rounds before some kind of powder residue mix would result in some area that gets slowed down just enough to cause either a feed jam, be it a dirty mag, or that the rails and guides just need to be clean with fresh oil in order to cycle "perfectly" as in "timing", which 1911's demand for ongoing proper feeding, cycling, and pleasure..

Because I'd bet the farm it's not the Winchester ammo, unless it's from the Czech Republic, as Winchester has farmed out much of their ammo production to overseas but, still, one can get good ol "Made in USA ILL", just chk the box's out first to see/read where it was made..

Try it, if it works, it's good, if not, then no harm shall come of it..


Ls

 

[Samuel Adams]

The mags are "allegedly" 8-rounds but I only loaded them to 7. I could get the 8th round in but I had to force it.

The gun and magazines were cleaned and lubricated after every visit to the range.

In addition, the ammo was "Made in the USA".

I'm still at a loss.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

In the past I've put about 200 rounds of Blazer FMJ through it with two jams and one failure to extract.

That is three stoppages too many. IMO something else is going on other than just changing to WWB ammo. That gun should feed any 230-gr. FMJ on the market. I "smell" an extractor problem, possibly in concert with magazines.

 

[fastbolt]

So, you've had how many functioning issues arise during the course of firing apparently less than 250 rounds of ammunition through your 1911-style pistol?

How knowledgeable and experienced of a shooter are you ... especially with 1911-style pistols?

How well was the pistol cleaned and lubricated prior to each range session?

Were the magazines cleaned out to make sure any shipping/packing oil & general goo were gone, and then left dry before you used them?

What kind of magazines are they, anyway?

You haven't tried loading the chamber by dropping a live round directly into the chamber, instead of loading it from a magazine, have you?

Where did you buy the pistol? Did you buy it new? Do they have a gunsmith who could at least inspect it and see if anything obvious (to him) is not within proper spec on your pistol? You have a warranty available on the gun? Why not call the manufacturer and chat for a few minutes to see what they think?

I know some folks will say that new guns often require some 'break in', and I can't argue about test-firing a gun to make sure the sharp edged surfaces are mated and make sure everything is working normally before trusting it to competition or defensive application ... but I've also become accustomed to having my new guns run fine once I inspect them, clean & lubricate them and take them out to the firing line.

I don't buy 'tight' guns, though, or 'match-grade' guns.

Neither my Colt XSE or my SW1911SC exhibited any feeding, extraction & ejection issues from the very first rounds I fired through them. A good amount of the ammunition I used included Winchester 230gr FMJ (both the older American-made loads and some of the imported stuff) and Winchester 230gr JHP Personal Protection (dirty stuff, granted), as well as some aluminum-cased Blazer, Winchester T-series, Remington Golden Sabre and some other odds & ends, I believe.

I haven't kept them clean between range sessions, either, since I've just used them for training & practice, and not dedicated carry weapons (yet, since I have enough other ones which see that duty) ... although I do verify I can still see lubrication on the barrels, bushings, guide rods & rails before I shoot them. I also use good quality magazines, too.

I saw a couple of our guys fussing over a Colt Commander 'parts gun' at the bench a while back. When I politely asked what was going on, they said that it wasn't feeding and functioning right and they were going to fix a couple of things to correct it.

Now, checking the pistol I saw that it could use a little attention here & there ... but I also didn't like the feel of the magazine springs and the follower style & movement. I handed the owner a couple of good (I thought, anyway) magazines and suggested he go try the gun again, with the same ammunition. While he seemed as though he would really rather have had the gun 'fixed', he took it over to the range and fired the same Winchester Personal Protection 230gr JHP through the gun. The same stuff that had just been giving him fits. Stayed out there burning up ammunition for a bit, too.

Lo and behold, the gun ran fine. Not a bobble. Funny how some 1911's seem to prefer some magazines.

Of course, then it was time to actually invest some attention toward replacing and adjusting some odds & ends that seemed as though they actually deserved some attention. I made him a present of one of the good magazines and suggested he invest in some more. Told him to clean the gun. Order new springs (they may have been the original springs from the look of them ). Clean the gun. (Did I mention that?) Lubricate the gun.

The fellow seems to really like the gun now. It runs.

Of course, he didn't have the luxury of a new gun warranty to fall back on, having acquired a 'mongrel' parts-gun with some parts of dubious origin.

Just my thoughts. Not an expert. Not a gunsmith.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

When I was a young man I bought a brand new browning hp. I shot the stuffings out of it for years without cleaning or oiling, except for wiping it down and it never jammed. I'm older and wiser now and whenever I take a pistol out to shoot I give it some oil on the rails and clean it too.

 

[Lonestar49]

One step at a time..

Quote: The mags are "allegedly" 8-rounds but I only loaded them to 7. I could get the 8th round in but I had to force it.

The gun and magazines were cleaned and lubricated after every visit to the range.

In addition, the ammo was "Made in the USA".

I'm still at a loss.
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Well, yes and no.. lol

First, when I first got my Colt Defender 45, she sang perfect until around 200 rounds.. then 1 or 2 feed jams per mag.. Flush fit Factory mags.

I then bought 2 Wilson Combat mags, and she went another 300 rounds then feed problems..

After a nice PM to and from 1911Tuner, I dissembled the gun, the mags, all 4 of them, cleaned the mags with a dry-lubricant called EEZOX, directions on can, leaves no film, collects no dust, powder residue like oil can, and does.

Then as 1911Tuner suggested, get the rails and guides good and WET with oil and keep-em that way, it's all about timing..

Got to tell ya, that gun, with all 4 mags, has gone over 1200 rounds trouble free, and I do quick EEZOX cleaning of the mags with a Q-tip, depressing the mags followers and springs, after every shoot, along with feed ramp, interior walls of the gun, along with a good ol boresnake, and then, as I said, just before heading out, I do the vertical oil application down the rails, along with a Q-tip oiled up, and swipe the exterior of the barrel, guide rod, and frame top/side edges.. And she has not missed a beat with either FMJ or JHP.. and I only take her completely down every 500 -800 rounds, and have to say I'm surprised at how little dirt/black residue there actually is, just more like used, but good, oil slicks.. My bet is she could go 1000 rounds without any problems, but I like to keep a round count and treat her to good lovin, sooner, and she returns the love without fail..

Get some EEZOX or CLP for the mags (interior walls, spring and on follower) but give the walls a final swipe with a clean pad or Q-tip as not to leave a too-much, or thick, layer of either.. KEY

Oh, when you get home, take both your mags and stuff them full with 8 rounds and let them sit that way in-between shooting at the range, and within 2 weeks, you'll be able to hand load them to full, 8 rounds, without any finger dings..

Won't hurt the springs at all, just break them in, faster, really..



Ls

 

[Samuel Adams]

I'll try the things mentioned and get back with you tomorrow. This CD 1911 is my first 1911 and it is a second hand gun. I don't know any of its history except, according to the paperwork that came with it, it was made in 2000.

 

[Neener Neener]

You might want to contact member Charles Daly on this board and run your problems by him. He is the CD man. You might try this thread, also:


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=328468

 

[Lonestar49]

You're on your way..

Quote: I'll try the things mentioned and get back with you tomorrow. This CD 1911 is my first 1911 and it is a second hand gun. I don't know any of its history except, according to the paperwork that came with it, it was made in 2000.
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I know they're a pain in the a$$ to disassemble the first couple of times, but with patience, manual within reading and pic/viewing range, it all makes easy sense..

Just wanted to mention, and being all too human as well, the name of this bar, you see centered in the 2 slides you see, need to be clean, and have a very thin coating of clean oil on them, as your copper coated bullets slide on this rail-guide into the chamber, and it needs to be clean, free of a lot of copper residue, build up, and inspected for such, and cleaned, to make sure all the elements of slide action, timing, feeding, and ejection of spent rounds with clean mags work in harmony..

Unlike the feed ramp, polished metal, no oil goes there, none, but that is where I use the EEZOX, again, it's a bonding, drying film, and will not collect dust or powder residue..

I'm gonna bet, once you have ensured all that has been mentioned by all, that your gun will perform at 100%, along with, your grip remains constant, balanced, even though many will say limp-wristing should have no effect on feeding/cycles, I have to disagree, as with my 3" Defender, IF and when I practice weak hand, or one hand grip shooting, IF my technique is off, to much, it will have/cause a feed jam, that's a fact. But when I use a 2-hand grip, she never jams, never..

One more step, at a time, my friend..


Ls

Only pics (Beretta slides) I have of area (*I forget the proper name) of center bar on inside top/center of slide that needs to be clean and have a very thin coating of oil on it.. KEY

*in my case, use it, or lose it.. lol Brain fart, I lost the name..

 

[Samuel Adams]

Just wanted to mention, and being all too human as well, the name of this bar, you see centered in the 2 slides you see, need to be clean, and have a very thin coating of clean oil on them, as your copper coated bullets slide on this rail-guide into the chamber, and it needs to be clean, free of a lot of copper residue, build up, and inspected for such, and cleaned, to make sure all the elements of slide action, timing, feeding, and ejection of spent rounds with clean mags work in harmony..

I take a tooth brush and solvent to the part mentioned as was taught to me by the Small Arms guys in the Air Force way back when. I also use long handled Q-Tips soaked in solvent to all of the ridges, creases, and joints.

Again, thanks.

 

[steelyblue]

Are you running it wet? They love their oil.

 

[Samuel Adams]

I picked up two new mags, one Wilson Combat and one Chip McCormick. I fired 100 rounds of WWB at the range this afternoon and no jams. The Wilson seems to fit a bit tighter in the mag well and will not drop out if empty but it is a bit smoother loading than the CMC.

...and yes, I run it wet.

 

[BigO01]

Are you running it wet? They love their oil

This is news to me and I have had a Colt Combat Commander , have 2 Charles Daly's and one FireStorm 1911 clone they all get or got in the Colts case the same lubing , a few drops of oil on the rails or a quick shot of Break Free when field stripped and thats it .

The Colt ran flawlessly for years and the Dalys are close to it , as is the FireStorm .

If your gun needs to drip lube to run you got a problem in my opinion .

 

[1911Tuner]

If your gun needs to drip lube to run you got a problem in my opinion .

I have to agree, but some of the short/chopped variants require it for a while. Whenever I get a request for personal assistance with a delinquent 1911...and I hear that it's one of those new-fangled "Micro" class pistols...I cringe, and start takin' Excedrin Migraine before it even gets here.