Ammo for USFA Rodeo

[quigs45]

Newbie here. I have just bought my first handgun, well, it is here but the state of Maryland still has my paper work almost 7 weeks now Anyway, I bought a USFA Rodeo 45 colt 4 3/4 inch. The indoor range I will be shooting at will only allow TMJ,JHP and JSP bullets. The only ones I can find are these:

Speer Gold Dot Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 250 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Muzzle Velocity: 900 fps, Muzzle Energy: 450 ft. lbs

CCI Blazer Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Muzzle Velocity: 900 fps, Muzzle Energy: 360 ft. lbs.

Will the Rodeo be able to handle this? Is this considered high power? I have seen other ammo at 444 ft. lbs and 1000 fps. I know the +P ammo is to powerful and the cowboy loads would be great but do to the lead I can't shoot them indoors. Thanks.

Mike T.

 

[C-grunt]

Its going to get expensive really quick if all you can shoot there is JHP defense rounds. Those dont seem like really hot loads for the 45 colt to me. Look on websites like cheaperthandirt.com and midwayusa.com for more options. There are more websites that I cant think of right now.

Now compare those loads to something from Buffalobore.com and you can see that they are not extreme loads. I dont know how strong the Rodeo is but I wouldnt use any hot loads in it myself.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You might have bought the wrong first gun if the only place you can shoot has such tight restrictions on the ammo you can shoot.

I'm sure your USFA revolver will shoot the Speer ammo just fine but like said above, it's going to get very expensive very fast! Check on the USFA and see if they have a .45 ACP cylinder available for your revolver so you can shoot .45 Auto Ball ammo and save some money.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[C-grunt]

Oh yes, where did I leave my manners??

Welcome to THR. The best gun enthusiasts forum on the net.

 

[RON in PA]

Find another range where you can shoot lead bullets.

 

[ghostsix]

Even in an 1873 those are not hot loads. The original load was .454/40/255. That is a powerful load.
You can shove lead faster than JHP`s which the weapon was not meant to shoot they wear the bore and they are pricy.
Load 250 gr. Keith`s behind 9 or 10 grs. of Unique and you will be happy.
Load 200 gr. SWC`s. 185`S ARE MID RANGE. bUT THEY WILL STABILIZE TO 50 YDS.
You can buy lead cheaper than you can cast it now.
I load 15 grs. of Blue Dot. But I would not advise that.
You will get flat primers, at best.
All weapons are different.
EG:Unless you reamed the throat, or forcing cone yourself, you have no idea of what it is,
Have a look at Lyman`s Manual. Hogden`s is on line. I use H110 in .41`s and .44`s, sometimes.
jUST A VIEW FROM MY BRONC.

 

[quigs45]

Thanks, for all the replies!! There are other indoor ranges to shoot. But, I like the idea of the chosen range do to a lesser degree of lead poision. Or, in your opions, should this be a concern for a indoor range? I have read a little about indoor ranges and high levels of lead. This range is very clean and friendly. I'm not rich but money for ammo is not a problem. I work a lot of overtime and the extra money the wife lets me keep for fun things. I just want to safe and healthy. Not to get to personal, but I had a heart attack 3 years ago(unexplained). It was quite a scare. This is one of the things that is on my list to do, might not be so lucky if it ever happened again. I know this is a little big for my first handgun but i like it. You should have seen my first choice, FREEDOM ARMS 500 WYOMING EXPRESS. The people at the range, um, talked me out of that real quick!!!! Since I am new at this, would reloading my own ammo be a better option or is that something left to more experienced people? Once again thanks for helping and welcoming me to THR.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Reloading will help a lot IMO. You really won't end up saving any money but you will shoot a lot more for the money you spend. With .38 Special ammo I can usually load 200 rounds for the price of buying 50. You will find similar saving across the board for handgun ammo.

 

[Coyote3855]

Your Rodeo ( I have two) will handle any standard .45 Colt load. While some may question your choice for a first handgun, you bought a very high quality firearm in a classic design. The only way to get experience reloading is to start. Buy a good manual, follow recommended load and procedures EXACTLY. Relaoding allows me to shoot competitively on a regular basis and practice a lot. And tailor loads to my specific needs. A good single stage press, dies, powder measure, scale, components and you're good to go. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Stainz]

Unless those 200gr .45 Colt Al-cased Blazers have changed, they were a lot faster than that - over 1,050 fps from my old 5.5" Blackhawk. Georgia Arms loads new Starline brass with that same Speer 200gr Gold Dot JHP, which is designed for 1,000+ fps, in new Starline brass at similar levels to the Blazers (... but cheaper!). When I chrono-ed them, they made 1,123 fps from my 4" 625MG - that's 559 ft-lb. The Speer #4484 250gr .45 Colt Gold Dot does open at lower velocities - actually, just over 800 fps. My loads with them made 823 fps from the 4" 625MG - 375 ft-lb - closer to the 240-255gr LRNFP/LSWC @ 780 fps typical cowboy loads from a 4" 625MG. The Speer loaded 250gr Gold Dot ammo is a bit too dear for me to buy to chrono.

So, if the 200gr Blazer Gold Dots are as fast as they were, they will likely break the sound barrier from your USFA - giving them a decidedly loud 'crack' - and that KE will produce a healthy recoil. They should be less than the maximum SAAMI specifications, however, as both they and the lower velocity Speer boxed 250gr Gold Dots are sold as .45 Colt, ie, not T/C or Ruger-only loads. Give GA Arms a call to check out their offerings. Save the brass... I never thought I'd reload - and started at an indoor range, too.

Stainz

PS Super first revolver, by the way! Those USFAs are really nicely made - better than Colts, IMHO.

 

[MCMXI]

quigs45,
Welcome to the board and sorry to hear about your heart attack. On the bright side, you obviously survived with a warning ... many aren't that lucky.

As for your choice for your first revolver ... OUTSTANDING!! I have two Rodeos in .45 Colt that I bought from Jim at www.longhunt.com . They are EXCELLENT revolvers that will last many lifetimes. They're 100% US made, are of outstanding quality and are incredibly fun to shoot as well as being practical, reliable work guns.

Reloading is something that you'll have to think long and hard about. I should caution you that once you're bitten by the reloading bug there's no going back. You'll be ordering bullets, powder, primers, dies, more dies, brass, boxes, more powder, calipers, digital scales and so on and so on ... but your wife sounds cool so maybe it won't be a problem for you. For many of us, we have to open off-shore bank accounts just to keep our wives in the dark! Given the amount of money I've been embezzling to support my addiction, my wife thinks I'm having an affair ... which I am but not with a woman ... it's with Redding, Lee and RCBS!!

If you do start reloading, it's simple, safe (if you're careful) and incredibly enjoyable. You can buy 1000 lead bullets from companies such as Oregon Trail for less than $0.10 a bullet which means you'll shoot more, which means you'll reload more which basically means your quality of life will go WAY up.

Good luck and take care!!



P.S. Reloading can be for everyone at any level but you should try to avoid "incrementalism" ... in other words, buy good equipment off the bat. Don't buy some cheap stuff only to realize that you need better equipment. A good quality single stage press will always be useful and the same is true for good quality dies.

 

[Stainz]

Over six years ago, as I went into the range store to buy more .45 Colt Cowboy loads for my Rugers and new 625 Mountain Gun, the operator asked why I didn't 'roll my own'. I went home that night and retrieved my bags of empty .45 Colt cases, mostly Starline brass from Georgia Arms ammo. I found over 2,700 cases! I reviewed the Dillon catalog, actually a monthly, 'The Blue Press', available free from 1-800-223-4570, and determined that, at current prices, I could 'pay for' a Dillon 550B press, Lee carbide dies, etc, by 2,100 rounds loaded. I created a monster.

Sure, I could read and follow instructions, even though I had never touched a press before. The Dillon was a work of art, even if it took that money I had squirreled away for a new S&W to get set up. Before long, I was making everything from 7.62 Nagant to .38 & .357M to .44 Russian & Special to .45 Colt. Eventually, I bought my first ever .38 & .357M - to use that ammo. More followed. I started slowing down at the reloading suppliers tables at the gun shows. I found myself dumpster diving at the range for decent ammo boxes. It's a separate hobby... no, it's an illness. Custer might have won if he had as much ammo as I do now.

The economy of it is important - but mainly because you have brass to reload. If you load .45 ACPs, for example - Win 230gr FMJ ball bullets - $180/1k shipped. Powder & primers - $50. Brass - from Starline - $138/1k shipped. That's $368/1k. Go to WallyWorld - UMC 250 round boxes of ball ammo in brass - $81.47/ea - $325.88/1k. I don't know anyone who loads 9mm - some did to +P+ levels for 'major power factor' in competition a few years back, but it was dangerous. I reload because I can make what I want. The quest for good brass is there, too. In my 1895 Nagant's case, I must make my ammo - and I do hideous things to a .32-20 case to make it work in a Nagant.

I suggest a progressive press - like the Dillon. Don't skimp - buy one press one time - and don't have a 'seasonal' place to reload. Shop around for supplies - but mail order gets expensive for powder, primers, & lead. The first two have haz-mat fees, the latter is just heavy. I probably would have saved some serious money if I had never bought a press - and just had a .22 revolver - and took up stamp collecting. Naw, it's been a blast!

Stainz

 

[quigs45]

1858
I have been looking at longhunt. I get my Rodeo on Tuesday Dec. 9!! After 7 weeks!! I can not wait to shoot it Anyhow, I will probably send him my Rodeo. If I do, should I get the whole package? I believe full service is $275.
Here is the list, if there is somthing on here that I don't need please let me know. The drilling the frame and using the Ruger spring is what concerns me, if it is a good thing then I will do that. Just let me know what you think, being you have two from him. I like the idea that it will be stronger. I have also been thinking about Cowboy Fast Draw. Thanks for info on reloading, yesterday I bought two reloading books, Lyman 49th and Speer #14.

Premium Action Job: Includes Parts & Labor $125.00 USD

1.
Hone All Internal Parts and Replace Springs
2.
Replace Stock Springs with Lee's "Gunslinger Spring Kit"
3.
Rework Sear and Hammer for Crisp 2 1/2 lb. Trigger Pull
4.
Open Forcing Cone to 11 degress
5.
Square Barrel Face.
6.
Check Cylinder Gap and Head Space.
7.
Set Timing and Advance Bolt Drop


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Work: Includes Parts & Labor
1.
Drill Frame and Add Ruger Style Coil Hand Spring $40.00 USD

2.
Relieve Hammer .007" on each side to eliminate drag marks. Then the hammer is machine jeweled (plain polished on request) $40.00 USD

3.
Open Rear Sights $25.00 USD

4.
Serrate Front Sight: 40 Lines Per Inch $20.00 USD

5.
Adjust Point of Aim $25.00 USD

 

[MCMXI]

quigs45, give Jim a call at www.longhunt.com since he's really the expert. I bought both my revolvers directly from him for $595 each. He didn't charge anything for the consecutive serial numbers and he basically does everything on the list that you posted. The Ruger spring is a good idea since it's significantly more reliable than the factory spring. The trigger work Jim does is outstanding too and you won't believe how sweet it is until you try it. Anyway, my best advice is call Jim ... he's a really cool guy to deal with.

Another thing about Jim, he's obviously very careful when he works on these revolvers ... there wasn't a single scratch, mark or nick anywhere on either one ... truly impressive!!

Congrats again on a really, really fine revolver. I definitely see more USFA products in my future.

 

[MCMXI]

Thanks for info on reloading, yesterday I bought two reloading books, Lyman 49th and Speer #14.

I just bought the Lyman 49th Edition too ... it's a BIG book. I have the Speer #11, Lee 2nd Edition and Sierra 50th Anniversary Edition that I've been using for years. The Lee 2nd Edition is a total piece of literary crap and a complete waste of money!! I've always liked the Speer manual ....

... geez, you just keep making good choices!! Hope you stick around.

 

[quigs45]

1858
Thanks. As soon as get my Rodeo and get a chance to shoot it. I will give Jim a call. I like to do a lot of research before I buy or do anything. I would love to have a 1st generation Colt. I had found a really nice one. It was in good shape, but, $8000!!!!! Not at this time. I'm 44 now maybe on my 50th. But then again, I really like the Gunslinger from USFA. For $6800 less it is very close to what a 68 to 135 year old Colt would look like, minus the history. Stainz, gave me a couple of sites on reloading and presses. That Dillion Press is nice. Might have to look into that, but for now I will use factory ammo, so I can get in there and shoot!!

Mike T.

 

[Jim K]

Ask your dealer if he has any idea why your MSP "not disapproved" took so long. I just bought a handgun and the "not disapproved" came back in 5 days, though I couldn't pick up the gun until the 7th day.

(For those outside the state, one of the peculiar things about MD is that for some obscure legal reason, the state police [the approving authority] will not say an application to purchase a handgun is "Approved", but that it is "Not Disapproved." Stupid and silly, but then most gun laws are.)

Jim

 

[MCMXI]

I suggest a progressive press - like the Dillon. Don't skimp - buy one press one time

Stainz, respectfully I'd like to disagree with your advice re the progressive press. For someone that is reloading for the first time, particularly the .45 Colt, I would suggest a high quality single stage press for a number of reasons.

1. There are many aspects to reloading in order to produce safe, reliable, accurate loads. With a single stage press where typically one or at most two steps are completed with each stroke of the handle, it's much easier (and safer) for the novice reloader to learn how to reload.

2. With a single stage press, the reloader can become completely familiar (through focused repetition) with each step and gain a better understanding of the tolerances at each step.

Note: This is kind of like doing differentiation the long way vs memorized solutions ... you need to know how it works (and that it does work) before you "plug and play".

3. SAFETY! The .45 Colt case is HUGE and double or triple charging is a very real and serious concern (using Trail Boss powder would DEFINITELY be safer when using a progressive press and reloading .45 Colt).

4. A number of single stage presses can be converted to progressive presses once the reloader has gained sufficient experience.

5. A single stage press will always be useful if the reloader decides to purchase a progressive press.

Before anyone gets all worked up about my comments, I've been reloading for 20 years, I have a progressive press (since '92) AND a couple of single stage presses so I'm definitely NOT putting down the benefits of progressive presses. In fact, I've reloaded thousands and thousands of rounds with a progressive press without any "serious" problems. They certainly have their place but they require A LOT more diligence and for the novice reloader can be overwhelming with numerous steps occurring with each pull of the handle. Once set up they're excellent at spitting out hundreds of rounds within a few hours but mistakes are easier to make to. When it comes to SAA clones, mistakes can be catastrophic!!

quigs45, I would advise you to buy a singe stage press and Trail Boss powder for your Rodeo. Trail Boss will cost you a bit more but at 6.0 grains a load (200 grain bullet) you can get 650 loads from one 9oz container which is less than $0.05 per round. The bullet will cost you $0.10 a round (or thereabouts). The point is, Trail Boss powder was designed to fill up the voluminous .45 Colt case so that you can't double (or triple) charge it. You could load up a .45 Colt case with 3X the maximum listed load using W231 with potentially lethal results. I like W231 in my Ruger Redhawk and Marlin 1894 though ... but I mark the base of each case with permanent pen so that I won't accidentally shoot them in the Rodeos.

P.S. If you get the chance, read VihtaVuori's reloading guide (available on their web site) re the .45 Colt and "cowboy" loads. They make some very interesting points about powder distribution in the case and double charges.