USFA Rodeos

[Pointshoot]

Hi guys - Way back when I wanted to get a SAA type six gun. I was impressed by their feel & natural pointability. I liked the power of a 45 Colt in a handy 4 3/4" barrel package. (I had/have Ruger Blackhawks & they're good guns, but heavier & not as lively handling as a SAA.) I wanted something for general field use - not an expensive collector, so Colt was out of the running for me. I bought a USFA Rodeo and was very impressed. The perfect SAA type gun for my needs. A few months later, I bought a Rodeo II. Also in plain matte finish, but in nickel.

I was shocked, like many others, when USFA stopped making SAA type guns. Now I don't see all that many ads for these guns & prices have taken off for many models into the Colt range. I didn't want 'collectors' but even my modestly finished, but very well made Rodeos may be heading in that direction.

Here's my questions to ask the SAA guys out there please:

- Would you do much shooting of these USFA Rodeo guns? Can you get parts for them? Can SAA gunsmiths use/alter other manufacturers parts to keep them running?
(I have buddies with broken Colt d.a. revolvers. They can't find parts & competent gunsmiths for them are rare. I don't imagine the situation will be as bad for USFA guns, but would like your feedback on this.) Thanks!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

You should pm CraigC about this and ask him to drop by the thread. He is a fan of USFA guns, and knows a lot about them. They are nice looking guns. I've never had the pleasure of handling one.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Those USFA guns are very well made and IMO made better than the Colts. The weak part on a Colt is the main spring which was changed in the USFA revolvers.

I wouldn't worry too much about the guns breaking because they are well made. If you think they will be a collector item maybe you can pick one to put away and enjoy the heck out of the other. Personally I would not be able to own one and not shoot it, especially since you bought them for field carry.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

 

[35 Whelen]

I personally have always been a fan of utility type firearms. I've never seen the point of dragging a beautifully finished, expensive revolver through the briars and mesquites when something less blingy and expensive would do the job just as effectively. Right now in my safe there's a 3rd Generation Colt, in .44 Special, unfired, in the box, wrapped in the plastic bag, and all the paperwork. gorgeous color case hardening, perfect bluing, etc. I kept thinking I'd use it for one of my working/field revolvers but just can't bring myself to do it.
I also have a heavily modified 4 3/4" NM Vaquero in 45 Colt that pretty much fills the bill for my needs. But as Pointshoot said, they're just not the same as a Colt or something similar; tough, but heavy and almost clunky, if you will.
I recently located and am going to buy an all-American made USFA in 5 1/2" 45 Colt. It's the whole package; carbona blue and Turnbull color case hardening...produced during the pinnacle of USFA's time in business. Now the hypocrisy... I full intend to make it a field revolver for hunting, carrying it in the briar-filled creek bottoms, pushing through the mesquites, building barbed wire fence, etc. I'm going to use this revolver not because of its beauty, but because of its reputation for extremely high quality.
Only you can decide if that's for you.

35W

 

[Pointshoot]

@35 Whelen - that USFA SAA sounds really nice. I had planned to get a 4 3/4" barrel Pre-War model - but before I had a chance, USFA went out of business. Had wanted to send it to Bob Munden in Montana for an action job, but Bob passed away in 2012.

The matte blue Rodeo has a few minor nicks here & there from some use (98%+ condition), maybe I'll just go ahead & shoot it. The Rodeo II in matte nickel has never been shot (100% condition). Maybe I'll just keep it that way for awhile.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The weak part on a Colt is the main spring which was changed in the USFA revolvers.

Please explain how the main spring (hammer spring) is the weak part on a Colt?

 

[DPris]

Bolt spring & hand spring are the two spring weaknesses in that Colt design, not the mainspring.
Denis

 

[35 Whelen]

@35 Whelen - that USFA SAA sounds really nice. I had planned to get a 4 3/4" barrel Pre-War model - but before I had a chance, USFA went out of business. Had wanted to send it to Bob Munden in Montana for an action job, but Bob passed away in 2012.

The matte blue Rodeo has a few minor nicks here & there from some use (98%+ condition), maybe I'll just go ahead & shoot it. The Rodeo II in matte nickel has never been shot (100% condition). Maybe I'll just keep it that way for awhile.

It IS really nice except...some knucklehead previous owner evidently didn't know to put the hammer on half-cock to remove the cylinder, so it has some scratches on it. The up side to that is, the current owner is selling it to me for not much more than the Rodeo's are selling for lately.

I really wanted an all-American 5 1/2" Rodeo, but just couldn't justify paying upwards of $1000.

Enjoy yours!

35W

 

[the Real Alpo]

More likely he was unaware that after loading you are supposed to pull it to full-cock before lowering the hammer. I've seen many people, uneducated in the correct usage, pull the hammer back off half-cock just enough that they can pull the trigger, and then let the hammer down. This allows the bolt to rise quite early, the cylinder is not locked, and when it turns that final quarter-turn the bolt drags on the cylinder.

A Rodeo is a fine gun, although I consider the 4 3/4 barrel too short. They just balance better, for me, with the 5 1/2".

 

[Pointshoot]

Thanks guys for your comments.

What about the parts issue? Is a good, experienced SAA and cowboy action gunsmith likely going to be able to keep a USFA up and running? Will the lack of parts be a concern? And what parts are most likely to break on these?

@35 Whelen - if a guy would have suggested the prices that even the bargain priced Rodeos go for today 'back in the day', people would've laughed. I remember threads where it was commonly said 'the Rodeos will never be a collector piece'. Of course, we never imagined that a company that produced such fine guns would go out of business either.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Please explain how the main spring (hammer spring) is the weak part on a Colt?

I probably named the wrong spring. I think I remember there is one spring on a Colt that breaks and the design was changed in the USFA revolver. I didn't mean to mislead anyone...

 

[CraigC]

I shoot mine regularly. A SAA is not like an old Colt DA. Colt was the only one to ever make the New Service and they have not been made in a long time. Whereas the SAA has been in almost continuous production for 142yrs and by several manufacturers. The SAA is also very easy to work on and thus, there is no shortage of gunsmiths who can get one working again. So future breakage is something I would never worry about. I don't buy any guns as financial investments so what a collector thinks they're worth is not really a factor.

For whatever it's worth, I think an action job on a late model domestic USFA is a waste of money. These guns are so well made, so finely machined and well fitted that all they really need is new springs. Mine have slick actions and crisp 2lb triggers and all I have done is change the springs. Virtually any Colt or imported replica will benefit from an action job. My USFA's still have a better feeling action than my 3rd generation Colt that was tuned by Tom Sargis. USFA's are 'that' good! The USFA's feel like a precision instrument, while the Colt's feel no different from Uberti's.

The weak links in the chain are the hand spring, which is a tiny leaf on the backside of the hand, designed to hold it forward in its slot so it can engage the ratchet. In nearly 30yrs of enthusiastic SA shooting, I've only broken one and it was on a friend's high-mileage Frontier Scout. They are easy to replace. The trigger/bolt spring is also one that breaks occasionally. Although nowhere near as often as Ruger myth & legend would leave you to believe. I've only broken one or two of those. No longer a threat once replaced with a music wire spring. Which is what I usually do. On some guns, a reduced power leaf just feels better. The other potential issues, that are not so easy to fix are the hand itself and the hammer cam. An improperly fitted action will wear the bolt legs and the hammer cam at an accelerated rate. Tuning this area is probably the most important aspect to a professional action job.

 

[Pointshoot]

@CraigC - thank you kindly for your detailed reply. I appreciate it.

I also contacted a couple of SAA gunsmiths, including Joe Perkins out of Tucson.
He said the USFAs are very robust guns and to not be concerned about shooting them. He also said that there's no problem working on them. (I noted that he's worked on SAA type guns for more than 20 years, including doing extensive repair work on 1st Generation Colts.)

So my USFAs will be used to do what they were designed to do - I'll shoot them

Thanks again to everyone for their comments.

 

[huntershooter]

This one is shot frequently.

 

[bannockburn]

huntershooter

That's one beautiful SAA! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Lots of the problems you have with Rugers is your barrel selection. When I bought my Super Blackhawk (late 1970's) the shortest barrel Ruger offered was 7 1/2. Lately due to popular demand Ruger has been offering short barrels on their single actions. Colt and S&W feel fine with a short barrel because they have light frames. People don't get it until they buy a dust catcher that a 4" barrel doesn't balance a 3lb gun. If your going to buy a 3 lb gun put a 6" to 10" barrel on it.

 

[35 Whelen]

In my experience long barrels are fine at the range, sitting in a deer stand, or at the keyboard. But for all day carry such as working, climbing in and out of a vehicle or out walking the woods, the shorter barrels are much more practical. I've carried a 4 5/8" comfortably for, many miles but believe a 5 1/2" is a better compromise between handiness and sight radius.

35W

 

[CraigC]

Lots of the problems you have with Rugers is your barrel selection. When I bought my Super Blackhawk (late 1970's) the shortest barrel Ruger offered was 7 1/2. Lately due to popular demand Ruger has been offering short barrels on their single actions. Colt and S&W feel fine with a short barrel because they have light frames. People don't get it until they buy a dust catcher that a 4" barrel doesn't balance a 3lb gun. If your going to buy a 3 lb gun put a 6" to 10" barrel on it.

I don't know what this has to do with the OP but I don't agree. Barrel length is mostly personal preference. I have several of each length but my favorite for shooting and packing has always been 4 5/8" for Rugers and 4¾" for SAA's. I don't find the sight radius of the longer barrels to be any advantage.

7½" may have been the shortest barrel offered in the Super Blackhawk in the `70's but Ruger has had the 4 5/8" length since the beginning on the Blackhawk .357 in 1955. As well as the later .41Mag and .45Colt models. The short length has been catalogued for probably at least 20yrs. I bought this one in 17yrs ago and subsequently converted it to a Bisley. It is one of my favorite sixguns and probably the one I shoot the best with. It's still 2oz lighter than a 6" model 29. When I commission my custom .500 this year, it will also be a 4 5/8".

In my experience long barrels are fine at the range, sitting in a deer stand, or at the keyboard. But for all day carry such as working, climbing in and out of a vehicle or out walking the woods, the shorter barrels are much more practical. I've carried a 4 5/8" comfortably for, many miles but believe a 5 1/2" is a better compromise between handiness and sight radius.

Great minds think alike!

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

I was just a kid when I bought my gun. I bought it from a gunsmith who looked after me when I was younger. If Ruger made a 4" Super Blackhawk he would have said there aint no such animal. One of the reasons I bought the Super Blackhawk is the local game warden carried one. I really doubt you get in and out of a vehicle or walk as much as a game warden. He needed a pistol he could return fire if some idiot was shooting at him with a rifle or shotgun. Another reason he liked a big pistol it was hard to take away from him.
He apprehended two men for spotlighting deer. One of the two hit him in head with a lug wrench while the other tried to get his gun. He shot the one trying to get his gun twice in the head with a 25acp BUG, killing him. He handcuffed Mr lug wrench to the roll bar and laid in the back of the truck until help arrived. He didn't know the one he had shot with the 25 was dead. He handcuffed him to the trailer hitch.

 

[35 Whelen]

I probably used the wrong term when I said sight radius. An ardent handgun hunting correctly pointed out that longer sight radii give a bit more margin for error when holding over for long shots.

No, I don't get in and out of a vehicle as much as a ga.e warden but that doesn't change the practicality of shorter barrel revolvers.

35W

 

[Pointshoot]

I'm not as experienced with SAA type guns as many guys here. So, I haven't tried out a ton of these guns. (I do have Ruger Blackhawks including a .44 Special Flattop but these have a different feel to them than the SAA type guns.) It's interesting how seemingly small differences can change the way a gun feels & works for someone. I often like to use a Mernickel high rise holster to carry the USFA. It holds the gun tight to the body and high up & I find it perfect with a 'gunfighter' length 4 3/4" barrel gun, at least for me.

I should do a search or start another thread, but since we're all here - can you please comment on how the New Model Vaqueros compare in handling to the Colts, USFAs, and other SAA type guns ? I've heard they are much better in this regard than the older models. (I have a regular Blackhawk in 45Colt/45ACP. It's a tank & great for hotter loads; doesn't feel like a SAA though.)

 

[CraigC]

If Ruger made a 4" Super Blackhawk he would have said there aint no such animal.

Ruger has made the 4 5/8" Super Blackhawk for at least 20yrs. That's a fact, not my opinion. I bought the above sixgun in 1998.

The information I found is that the 5½" was introduced in 1987 and the 4 5/8" in 1994.

I really don't care if a game warden prefers a 7½" Super. My opinion comes from owning three dozen single actions, using them almost daily and shooting tens of thousands of rounds per year for nearly 30yrs. Opinions of game wardens and anonymous internet characters are not a factor.

If I was shooting for money, it would be with the sixgun above. Not the almost identical 7½" below.

 

[Steve S.]

Pointshoot, I am fortunate to own a USFA three gun set; two 4 3/4 And a 7 1/2 with sequential serial numbers - all .45 LC. I hunt/ shoot the heck out of the 7 1/2 and keep the 4 3/4 set as safe queens; I plan on shooting/ using the safe queens as I am getting old and saving them for what? I would not worry about a failure in these guns - my gut tells me that the likelihood is minimal. Good shooting.

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm not as experienced with SAA type guns as many guys here. So, I haven't tried out a ton of these guns. (I do have Ruger Blackhawks including a .44 Special Flattop but these have a different feel to them than the SAA type guns.) It's interesting how seemingly small differences can change the way a gun feels & works for someone. I often like to use a Mernickel high rise holster to carry the USFA. It holds the gun tight to the body and high up & I find it perfect with a 'gunfighter' length 4 3/4" barrel gun, at least for me.

I should do a search or start another thread, but since we're all here - can you please comment on how the New Model Vaqueros compare in handling to the Colts, USFAs, and other SAA type guns ? I've heard they are much better in this regard than the older models. (I have a regular Blackhawk in 45Colt/45ACP. It's a tank & great for hotter loads; doesn't feel like a SAA though.)

I cannot for the life of me explain the differences, but there is a definite difference in the handling and feel of my 4 5/8" NM Vaquero and my 4 5/8" Uberti '73 reproduction. One of the reasons could be that the Vaquero is about 3 oz. heavier than the Uberti. Whatever the reason I found it much easier to master any of my Uberti's than to my Vaquero.

35W

 

[Pointshoot]

@ 35 Whelen - thanks.

I know what you mean, even in guns with similar weights you can feel a difference. It must also come down to how the weight is distributed.

Today I handled a New Vaquero 45 Colt in blue with 5 1/2" barrel. It felt very nice in hand, though I wasn't able to load it since it was in a gunshop.