Ammo in a fire
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KC0QGL
Member
If the fire is in another room, most likely not.
In the same room, probably.
Ammo in the fire, yes.
In the same room, probably.
Ammo in the fire, yes.
redraidermgr
Member
It depends widely on the fire and how the ammo is situated. If the ammo is in a firearm and the gun gets hot it could discharge.
My father was a fireman for 10 years before retiring and had an incident where a .410 shotgun was inside a house that had caught fire. The shotgun got hot and then fell over where it had been propped up on the mantle. The shotgun shell inside the gun went off. The pellets in the gun went through the house and hit my father
, who was 40 yards away, in the legs. The pellets went through the bunker gear and through clothes and even got lodged under his kneecaps... very painful ordeal.
Ammo may explode through the side of the case or if for some reason it cant or wont it may send the bullet flying, explosions are hard to predict sometimes
. A fireproof safe is a good idea to protect your guns and ammo in the event of a catastrophe like a fire and make your house even safer for the emergency responders that show up to help you and your family.
My father was a fireman for 10 years before retiring and had an incident where a .410 shotgun was inside a house that had caught fire. The shotgun got hot and then fell over where it had been propped up on the mantle. The shotgun shell inside the gun went off. The pellets in the gun went through the house and hit my father
, who was 40 yards away, in the legs. The pellets went through the bunker gear and through clothes and even got lodged under his kneecaps... very painful ordeal.Ammo may explode through the side of the case or if for some reason it cant or wont it may send the bullet flying, explosions are hard to predict sometimes
. A fireproof safe is a good idea to protect your guns and ammo in the event of a catastrophe like a fire and make your house even safer for the emergency responders that show up to help you and your family.
chute2thrill
Member
A buddy of mine remodeling his parents house when his mom threw an old box into a fire they had going for the trash... We started hearing light popping noises and realized there was some .22lr in the box... The pops were very quiet and barely made the fire spark.. Not sure on any higher powered cartridges but .22lr in a fire didn't seem/sound too dangerous... His mom was tending the fire while the shells were going off!!
Rmac58
Member
I understand the ammo will act similar to firecrackers, it'll pop, but nothing more than that.
GlowinPontiac
Member
Sometimes the brass casing will be propelled out of the fire with considerable force. Usually not enough to cause more than a nice bruise or cut but still not harmless. Sometimes the primer can fly out with decent velocity as well.
plastic shotgun shells just tend to melt and then flare up when the flames reach the powder.
So no, they will not fire as if they were in a gun the will simply "pop" like firecrackers.
Mythbusters tested this by baking live rounds in an oven until they went off and IIRC only a .50bmg round did any sort of damage and all that it did was break the glass on the oven door when the shell went flying.
plastic shotgun shells just tend to melt and then flare up when the flames reach the powder.
So no, they will not fire as if they were in a gun the will simply "pop" like firecrackers.
Mythbusters tested this by baking live rounds in an oven until they went off and IIRC only a .50bmg round did any sort of damage and all that it did was break the glass on the oven door when the shell went flying.
Psywarrior13
Member
Overall, I would place the "throwing ammo in a fire" in the bad idea column.
I have seen too many fires involving ammo ending badly. They do in fact discharge when exposed to fire. At the very least you should store your ammo in an ammo can.
I have seen too many fires involving ammo ending badly. They do in fact discharge when exposed to fire. At the very least you should store your ammo in an ammo can.
rcnixon
Member
Hatcher went over this in his "Notebooks" decades ago. I've never seen it because I've never read them (sure would like a copy though) and "The American Rifleman" did an article a few years back by a part-time firefighter who may have also been a PE. The upshot of the AR article: just what others have said. When not confined by a barrel and chamber, the bullet will remain stationary and the case and/or primer will fly more or less distance depending on conditions and size. Modern turn-out gear will more than protect the firefighter from the possible flying debris.
rc109a
Member
I know there is a link to a mythbusters episode that does just this same thing. I cannot link ot it as our computers at work do not let us access youtube. In the episode, the rounds went off, but with little or no force behinde the projectile. The cases were exploding. If the bullets were in a gun, then they fired almost as iff the trigger was pulled. They also put a handful into a campfire and not a lot happened except noise. The thought was that the fireman's protective equipment would have been thick enough to have stopped the rounds without any serious injuries. I think this entire mythbusters episode stated with a guy who hide his gun in the stove while they went on vacation. When they came back the wife turned on the stove to do some cooking and the gun went off. It is a very good piece to watch...
contenderman
Member
Yes, as covered by the other replies, ammo can detonate when exposed to fire. Nuf said ....
However what has not been said is that ammo exposed to fire or the extreme heat of a fire, that has not detonated is still a risk and needs to be properly disposed of. The probability that the high temperatures have changed the characteristics of the powder is very high. As you would have no way of readily knowing the extent of the change, including instability, you are running an unnecessary risk if you do not dispose of the ammo.
Lastly ... if a round is in the chamber and cooks off from the heat it has essentially the same damage potential as if normally fired.
However what has not been said is that ammo exposed to fire or the extreme heat of a fire, that has not detonated is still a risk and needs to be properly disposed of. The probability that the high temperatures have changed the characteristics of the powder is very high. As you would have no way of readily knowing the extent of the change, including instability, you are running an unnecessary risk if you do not dispose of the ammo.
Lastly ... if a round is in the chamber and cooks off from the heat it has essentially the same damage potential as if normally fired.
Thats the correct answer. I have an uncle who now has a glass eye from a live round that went off underneath a campfire when he was in the Marines (apparently no one noticed it in the dirt & grass when they built the fire). Case ruptured and sent part of it flying - not a lot of force behind it, but plenty to take out his eye.
The Fire Dept. trains about responding to house fires with live ammo. It's not much of a hazard. Standard issue "turnouts" (fire fighter suit) is designed to insulate from heat and heavy enough to protect against ammo cooking off.
Reload powder is produced in containers which don't build much pressure in a fire.
We're warned about responding to car fires where there's a good likelyhood locally that there's ammo in the vehicle.
But the big concern in responding to auto wrecks is staying out of the way of the "airbag" crash absorbing gear in the bumpers.
The big worry in responding to structural fires is fuel storage, paints and solvents.
Reload powder is produced in containers which don't build much pressure in a fire.
We're warned about responding to car fires where there's a good likelyhood locally that there's ammo in the vehicle.
But the big concern in responding to auto wrecks is staying out of the way of the "airbag" crash absorbing gear in the bumpers.
The big worry in responding to structural fires is fuel storage, paints and solvents.
theotherwaldo
Member
Yep. I went into a surplus store after a fire back in '69. There were twisty bits of brass all around where the ammo had caught fire, mostly within about ten feet of their point of origin. The only real explosion damage came from a couple of supposedly-deactivated 40mm AA rounds that had been on display behind the counter. Messy.
hardwarehacker
Member
Let me extend this thread just a bit further: Would any of these answers be different if there was a large quantity of ammo involved? Say a few cases totaling in the thousands of rounds in various calibers? Could this many rounds in close proximity turn into a chain reaction? I've seen plenty of posts on other fora in which enthusiasts described and sometimes showed pictures of personal ammo dumps which ran up to almost 10K rounds total.
M2 Carbine
member
In 1995 my gun shop burned to the ground. It contained among other things about 30,000 rounds of ammo, cans of smokeless and black powder and many thousand primers. Plus seven (unloaded) guns.
This is the common opinion because of limited testing but I can tell you that bullets will fly with enough force to go through steel ammo boxes, walls, etc.
See for yourself.
Gun powder cans. The smokeless cans do not blow up. Black powder and WD40 cans do blow up.
Note the bullet holes in the two bottom center cans. Those bullets had to go through AT LEAST a steel military ammo can before going through those powder cans.
This can was full of plastic boxed 9mm and over ten feet from the fire but the heat still caused about 30 rounds to explode with a lot of force. Funny thing was the rounds that exploded were on the unburned side of the can. From the bulged and busted unburned bottom of the can you can see those few 9mm rounds created a lot of pressure. Why more, especially on the burned side, didn't explode I have no idea. Later I shot all those rounds and had just a couple duds.
The Ruger Mark I is one of the guns I lost.
Most of the ammo was in 30 and 50 cal steel GI ammo cans.
Strange things happened.
One can was over half full of Chi Com 7.62x39. Even though the can was severely beat up it didn't have one hole.
All of the other cans had holes and tears and severe dents showing that some bullets and cases were hitting the walls of the cans with great force.
(the cans are so rusty because they were out in the weather for some time before I thought to get these pictures)
I also found bullet holes in the metal walls of the shop. These bullets had to first penetrate the steel ammo boxes and who knows what else before going through the wall.
Most of the exploding ammo was contained by the steel ammo cans but a number of bullets and cases did travel with enough force to cause serious injury.
It was an interesting day.
This is the common opinion because of limited testing but I can tell you that bullets will fly with enough force to go through steel ammo boxes, walls, etc.
See for yourself.
Gun powder cans. The smokeless cans do not blow up. Black powder and WD40 cans do blow up.
Note the bullet holes in the two bottom center cans. Those bullets had to go through AT LEAST a steel military ammo can before going through those powder cans.
This can was full of plastic boxed 9mm and over ten feet from the fire but the heat still caused about 30 rounds to explode with a lot of force. Funny thing was the rounds that exploded were on the unburned side of the can. From the bulged and busted unburned bottom of the can you can see those few 9mm rounds created a lot of pressure. Why more, especially on the burned side, didn't explode I have no idea. Later I shot all those rounds and had just a couple duds.
The Ruger Mark I is one of the guns I lost.
Most of the ammo was in 30 and 50 cal steel GI ammo cans.
Strange things happened.
One can was over half full of Chi Com 7.62x39. Even though the can was severely beat up it didn't have one hole.
All of the other cans had holes and tears and severe dents showing that some bullets and cases were hitting the walls of the cans with great force.
(the cans are so rusty because they were out in the weather for some time before I thought to get these pictures)
I also found bullet holes in the metal walls of the shop. These bullets had to first penetrate the steel ammo boxes and who knows what else before going through the wall.
Most of the exploding ammo was contained by the steel ammo cans but a number of bullets and cases did travel with enough force to cause serious injury.
It was an interesting day.
theotherwaldo
Member
That's just what I walked into. Stacked cases of 12 gauge and rifle ammo did minimal damage when they lit off. Most of the ammo didn't go off until later, after it had been knocked a few feet away by earlier ammo popping according to the scorch marks and brass bits on the floor.
Stuff that was baked in metal ammo cans were a bit more exciting, as I understood from the firemen at the scene, but ordinary paper-boxed ammo was no big threat beyond about ten feet.
Stuff that was baked in metal ammo cans were a bit more exciting, as I understood from the firemen at the scene, but ordinary paper-boxed ammo was no big threat beyond about ten feet.
hardwarehacker
Member
M2 Carbine -- guess that answers my question.
Can't resist a comeback to your closing line.
There is an ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times".
Thanks
HH
Can't resist a comeback to your closing line.
There is an ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times".
Thanks
HH
M2 Carbine
member
I forgot to mention.
Still, I am not the least bit concerned with having thousands of rounds of ammo around the place.
All things considered I think having ammo in your house is a whole lot safer than having such as WD40 in your house. That stuff explodes. In the first picture, the top left can was WD40.
Still, I am not the least bit concerned with having thousands of rounds of ammo around the place.
All things considered I think having ammo in your house is a whole lot safer than having such as WD40 in your house. That stuff explodes. In the first picture, the top left can was WD40.
woodybrighton
member
my brother once threw a clip of .303 ammo onto a camp fire and invented the sport of "Russian hopscotch" as you run like hell as the rounds cookoff.
he was only 15 at the time
he has since gone onto to find out how good mace is by spraying himself in the face with it
and taunting navy seals
he was only 15 at the time
he has since gone onto to find out how good mace is by spraying himself in the face with it
and taunting navy seals
hardwarehacker
Member
Yes, I understand. My background is in chemistry, so I have technical understanding of flammable liquids and such, even if I don't always handle them with the respect they deserve.
My immediate decision is whether to store my ammo (2-3K rounds and counting) in the gun room or elsewhere. That room is very secure and all that can burn in there are the carpet and wooden shelves. About the least-likely place I have for the ammo to be exposed to a fire. Guess a fire in there would damage the guns in any case. The ammo wouldn't add much.
Thanks again
HH
My immediate decision is whether to store my ammo (2-3K rounds and counting) in the gun room or elsewhere. That room is very secure and all that can burn in there are the carpet and wooden shelves. About the least-likely place I have for the ammo to be exposed to a fire. Guess a fire in there would damage the guns in any case. The ammo wouldn't add much.
Thanks again
HH
The ammo cans had to have been heated to a pretty decent temperature to ignite ammunition inside, especially if it was packed (not loose).
Steel looses a great deal of strength well before is actually melts, and the holes in the cans could very well be due to cases, not bullets.
Most of the holes appear far more like a flat surface like a case head punched them than a bullet tore them.
Some of the more 'explode' cans may have failed from internal pressure build up from cooked off cases.
Steel looses a great deal of strength well before is actually melts, and the holes in the cans could very well be due to cases, not bullets.
Most of the holes appear far more like a flat surface like a case head punched them than a bullet tore them.
Some of the more 'explode' cans may have failed from internal pressure build up from cooked off cases.
GlowinPontiac
Member
some of those holes in the steel cans appear to have a "tab" of metal folded back from the hole. a bullet going through steel will make a pattern like flower petals around the hole. Those holes look as if they were made by a flat object traveling rather slow as it simply cut the metal and pushed it out of its way leaving the tab there that could be folded back down to cover the hole completely.
I have shot many many rounds through pieces of metal and never had a bullet make a hole like that. They always leave a flower petal type pattern of steel tabs not just one large perfectly round tab. Im not calling you a liar and anything is possible especially when the metal is heated to near red hot temps but it really looks like those holes were made by casings being propelled into soft hot steel.
I have shot many many rounds through pieces of metal and never had a bullet make a hole like that. They always leave a flower petal type pattern of steel tabs not just one large perfectly round tab. Im not calling you a liar and anything is possible especially when the metal is heated to near red hot temps but it really looks like those holes were made by casings being propelled into soft hot steel.
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