Ammo in HOT cars. Okay, but seems it wouldn't be.

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Yes, you can.

Of course, all of the plastic in your car would be puddled in the floor pan, so you wouldn't mind the damage at the point.

Recall that lots of ammo our military uses overseas got there in a shipping container, and likely sat in the sun in Saudi for a year before being opened. You'll be fine just rotating your carry ammo once a year.
True, but consider that milspec ammo has more stabilizer added to the propellent to facilitate long-term storage than commercial fodder. The DoD actually has a very robust and expensive program in place to monitor and dispose of aged munitions, including small arms ammo.

Remington used to advise people dispose of their ammo after 10 years (!!)......of course that was their lawyers being way overcautious too. Lol.

Military ammo is often sealed at the primer and case mouth as well.

But yes, a year isnt unreasonable. :thumbup:
 
I keep a PCR in my metal console safe 24/7/365. Every six months I refresh the ammo. The old rounds always shoot. These are reloads with Bullseye.
 
My truck is white, has tint, and I use a covercraft windshield sun blocker. Center console stays nice and cool, while sitting outside in fl 24/7. Rechargeable Hyrosorbant desiccant in there too. Zero worries
 
Let's just say that if your vehicle gets hot enough to cook off ammunition, you've already lost your vehicle.

Smokeless powder needs to reach about 400F to spontaneously combust. Primers around 350F to 450F.

If your vehicle has reached these temperatures, more than likely it's on fire already.
 
Yep. Used to live in Arizona and had a pistol in my center console of a dark blue car. It would get so hot that I couldn't touch the steering wheel if I didn't use a windshield shade.

I also have been in a military environment in which the air temp was 125 degrees. Armored vehicles were dangerous to climb on since if you didn't have gloves on, you would burn your hands, and then once on the vehicle, your boot soles would slide because they were melting. Crazy.
 
Smokeless powder is inherently unstable, that’s why Stabilizers are added. Heat accelerates the deterioration. When the stabilizers are saturated or “used up”, deterioration increases very rapidly.
To give an idea of timeframes, the US military tests stockpiled powder and ammunition at 10 years, then 5 year intervals thereafter.
 
Smokeless powder is inherently unstable, that’s why Stabilizers are added. Heat accelerates the deterioration. When the stabilizers are saturated or “used up”, deterioration increases very rapidly.
To give an idea of timeframes, the US military tests stockpiled powder and ammunition at 10 years, then 5 year intervals thereafter.

Very good. Even military don't know much about ammunition lifetime, the boots on the ground guys are basically unaware of what US Army Ammunition Specialists , or USMC Ammunition Technicians actually do.

USMC PM Ammunition used to have a friendly web site with a Quarterly Magazine.


The Marine Corp has a nice web site with Ammunition Quarterlies.It has disappeared, I suspect it has all gone behind DoD firewalls, but I copied material from 2014 before everything vanished. This is an example:


Marine Corp Ammunition Program Manager, Fall 2014 Ammunition Quarterly

Have you, as a supporting Unit Ammo Tech, been out on a range and had those who were training bring back ammunition, stating that some or all of the ammo did not fire or function the way it was supposed to? Have you been issuing out ammo or had ammo brought back to you on a range that was dented, leaking orange powder or otherwise defective? Have you wondered what to do with the ammunition assets in these scenarios? How about as a supporting Ammo Tech? Have you been in the process of completing a receipt (turn-in) and the supported unit technician tells you how some of the ammunition being turned in didn’t function correctly (there were duds, they were rusted/dented, etc.), and wondered what the correct procedures were to handle these types of situations? The correct answer to each one of these scenarios is to have the supported unit technician complete a Malfunction or Defect Report as required per Marine Corps Order (MCO) 8025.1E.

First, let’s review the definitions of a malfunction and a defect. Per MCO 8025.1E,

A MALFUNCTION occurs when an ammunition item fails to function in accordance with the design, intent and expected performance when fired, launched or otherwise employed as specified. Malfunctions include the abnormal or premature functioning of an item as a result of normal handling, maintenance, storage, transportation or tactical employment.

A DEFECT is an imperfection that may prevent an item from functioning as intended or result in a malfunction. Defects include, but are not limited to, cracked cartridge case, loose primer, missing safety pin, deteriorated or leaking propellant bags or containers, presence of excessive rust/corrosion, and obvious external damage, etc.

Responsibilities of the Supported Unit

When a supported unit experiences an ammo malfunction/defect, the following information needs to be provided, at a minimum:

Identification of the unit, with a Point of Contact (POC) with first-hand knowledge of the incident

•Complete identification of ammunition, Department of Defense Identification Code, National Stock Number, Ammunition Lot Number (ALN) and Serial Number, as well as the quantity of how many rounds were fired and how many rounds failed

• Identification/description of weapon(s), including condition before and after the incident, settings, rate-of-fire, target, etc.

•Description of incident, including if there were any injuries, fatalities or damage

•Local (prevailing) conditions, date and time of incident, weather, terrain, etc.

•Ammo storage conditions prior to firing

• Whether the ALN was locally sus-pended as a result of the incident (by the Range Safety Officer or Ammunition Supply Point) and any other pertinent information Additional reporting requirements can be found in MCO 8025.1E.


If any remaining rounds from the ALN that failed to function as intended, or any residue from the failed rounds (misfires, cartridge cases, fragments, etc.) are deemed safe for transport by Explosive Ordnance Disposal, the supported unit is to return them to the supporting activity and notify the activity of the malfunction/defect. Damaged weapons will be returned to the unit armory with notification that a malfunction occurred, and the weapon is to remain “as is” until further notice. All required information is gathered, written up and submitted in a Naval Message and released via Automated Message Handling System. The message is routed to MARCORSYSCOM, PM Ammo and Marine Corps Programs Division (MCPD) Fallbrook, at a minimum, and additional addresses are listed in MCO 8025.1E.

In the event of a critical incident with serious injuries, fatalities or damage, PM Ammo will be notified immediately by phone and with a follow-up Naval Message report. The firing position is to be cordoned off, taken out of operation and protected/maintained until investigators arrive.For more detailed information on supported unit responsibilities regarding malfunction/defect reporting, refer to MCO 8025.1E.

Responsibilities of the Supporting Unit The supporting activity will determine whether to locally suspend the ALN involved, based on the severity of the incident. If suspended, the supporting activity is to notify (via telephone, email, etc.) PM Ammo of their action(s), including the on-hand balance of the ALN involved. If the supported activity returns remaining rounds/residue, the supporting activity will tag, segregate and store the turned-in items “pending investigation” until receipt of a notice to release or dispose of the ammunition from PM Ammo.

Why it Matters

One might think that one leaking B519 round or one dented A576 round is no big deal; or a couple of M766s that don’t work as well as MN08s aren’t that big of a deal—just tell the supporting activity techs and it’ll get taken care of. However, these seemingly “small” instances can actually make a big difference when proper procedures are followed.

Malfunction Reports are assessed/reviewed to determine if the ALN involved was at fault: if there was any possibility that the ammunition was defective and if the defect resulted in the malfunction. If the ammunition is found to be at fault/defective, a secondary assessment isconducted to see if there is a cost-effective fix for the defect. This assessment is exclusively driven by the safety and reliability of the ammunition. MCPD Fallbrook provides PM Ammo with technical assessments of each reported malfunction. Assessments are based on information provided in Malfunction Reports, additional information obtained from POCs, witnesses and a review of additional elements, such as:

•ALN production data (specifications, waivers, deviations, Lot Acceptance Test data, etc.)

•ALN and common component history (previous malfunctions, Notice of Ammunition Reclassifications [NARs], Ammunition Information Notices [AINs], investigations, inspections, etc.) including the history of “sister”ALNs and history data compiled by other services.

Without Malfunction and Defect Reports, ammunition cannot properly be reclassified. NARs/AINs are generated in part from supported activities’ submission of Malfunction/Defect Reports. So, next time you see that leaking B519 round or rusted ammo, or someone complains of ammo not firing like it’s supposed to, refer to MCO 8025.1E and make sure the Malfunction/Defect Report is submitted to ensure the ammo is properly reclassified and a malfunction is prevented

Though this helpful material is disappeared, I did find a USMC policy document Vol 7 Ammunition and Explosives.

I did find this 97 page document, by the USMC,

https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCO 4400.201 CH-2 Vol 7.pdf?ver=2020-03-04-130415-487

And it described roles and responsibilities, all the way down the chain of command, down to the individual Ammunition Technician. I know no one is going to look at the thing, but this is documentation of an resourced organization whose job is to make sure that only good ammunition is issued to the troops, and that "bad" ammunition is withdrawn. You can see that some of the group actually does ammunition surveillance and inspection. If you search, you will find polices and organizations doing the same tasks, for the Army, USAF, and Navy. But, I know you won't. Ammunition will go bad in time. Heat accelerates the deterioration of gunpowder, probably explosives, and what heat does to the other stuff can be found with diligent searching.

Ground pounders don't need to know any of this, and by and large, they don't. But the fact guys in theater don't know of ammunition problems is a good thing, it means some ammunition tech got the substandard, deteriorated stuff, out of the system before it was put into anyone's weapon.

Civilians are unaware of this, and basically, don't want to know. Everyone wants to assume their ammunition will last forever, be good forever, and millions and billions of years from now, they will be shooting the hoard they stashed away in the year 2021. It's a nice dream. You and your ammunition stash, invincible, immortal, together forever.

I did talk to guys at an Army Safety Explosives Office, I can't find whom I called over a decade ago, but the logistics guy I talked to told me ammunition cannot stay in tracked vehicles for long, before it starts to malfunction. So these guys are essential in making sure that ammunition stocks are periodically removed from active vehicles before trouble happens. The narrative in somebodies head that because you have not heard anything about malfunctioning ammunition in the Military, means that military ammunition does not malfunction, is a nice story, but not true. I am sure President Biden wants you on speed dial with all the Ammunition Technicians and Ammunition specialists throughout the world, so you can maintain your situational awareness. Has to be his number one priority. Just call him and give him your contact information.

I am going to say, heat does deteriorate ammunition, and just like your seat covers, when it fails, that time will be unpredictable. Unlike your seat covers, you can't see what is going on inside the case, and I recommend removing vehicle ammunition every couple of years, and shooting the stuff. And then, replace it with new stuff. I know you don't think your life is worth the price of a new box of ammunition, but surely some friend or loved one could spring the money, just because they care. Ask for ammunition to be under the Christmas tree. And shoot up the old stuff.
 
It gets plenty hot where I live, work and visit, this shot of the dash thermometer on my F350 last July is from the truck sitting on a gravel lot in the sun.

CB0A6086-E60E-4435-AF14-430D23C0374B.jpeg

The photo above was just below Needles, about 120 miles south of Death Valley on the same day Furnace Creek hit its highest temp (130 F) since the record of 134 F was set in the 1930’s.

That days forecast on my phone, it was 97 degrees before 8 am!

87D878F0-551B-4B9A-843F-C9D24F052D91.jpeg

We have guns and ammo in trunks and SUV’s all year round, never had an issue with a cook off or a melting firearm part... other than patrol rifles occasionally being too hot to hold when pulled out of the racks :what:.

We do rotate ammo annually to keep stuff fresh. I also ask my folks to break down, wipe down and relubricate the guns to try and keep oil from coagulating or drying out in the action and gumming stuff up.

Stay safe.
 
We do rotate ammo annually to keep stuff fresh. I also ask my folks to break down, wipe down and relubricate the guns to try and keep oil from coagulating or drying out in the action and gumming stuff up.

Smart practice. Old ammunition is acceptable for rock busting, assuming the powder has not deteriorated to the point it blows up the gun, but I would not trust my life to the stuff.

And, I am always surprised how many first hand accounts I have heard of indifference to firearms maintenance by LEO's. A shooting bud is a retired State Trooper, he told me visiting one of the men in his Division, making the man pull out the shotgun from the cruiser, and bud could not rack the slide, and I think it was due to rust!
 
Smart practice. Old ammunition is acceptable for rock busting, assuming the powder has not deteriorated to the point it blows up the gun, but I would not trust my life to the stuff.

And, I am always surprised how many first hand accounts I have heard of indifference to firearms maintenance by LEO's. A shooting bud is a retired State Trooper, he told me visiting one of the men in his Division, making the man pull out the shotgun from the cruiser, and bud could not rack the slide, and I think it was due to rust!
Sad, but true. I’m not “Tactical Ted the hut-hut King” by any stretch, but as our agency’s lead “gun guy” and firearms expert I stay familiar and proficient with not only my guns (Glock, Mini 14, M-4, 870) but with revolvers, single and DA autos, semi and manually operated shotguns & rifles, etc.

It scares me how uncaring or downright lazy officers and deputies can be. I’ve seen candy and gum wrappers fall out of shotgun barrels when taken out of cars after clowns put their trash in them. Just last year I took in a mini 14 from a recent retiree that had the bolt hold open lever so stiff and gummed up from old WD it had basically became a manually operated action... and this dude was a tactical team supervisor! Another guy who was a former academy instructor retired and the spare magazines he turned in had bullets with verdigris on them from age. And these issues are after I send out 2x yearly reminders about gun maintenance and ask supervisors to inspect their guys’ stuff. :fire:

Stay safe.
 
And these issues are after I send out 2x yearly reminders about gun maintenance and ask supervisors to inspect their guys’ stuff. :fire:

You are doing the right thing, even though I am 100% certain, all the slovenly individuals in your department hate you and wish you would go away, even though what you are doing, might save their lives.
 
You are doing the right thing, even though I am 100% certain, all the slovenly individuals in your department hate you and wish you would go away, even though what you are doing, might save their lives.
I don’t think they hate me for prodding them to take care of their tools, at least I hope not, but there are certainly some folks who could use a well-intended kick in the shorts sometimes.

Stay safe.
 
Yup.
Got to 118° here. Got my truck to 172° inside.
I try to not keep any ammo in the truck during summer.

I got some 9mm to 1400+ with very high pressure signs after it being left in the heat for a couple of hours.
 
Opening post is concerned with ammo cooking off in a hot vehicle. In my lifetime it has never got hot enough to set off firearm primers.

As others have pointed out, ammo stored in extremely hot weather can have chemical breakdown of the powder or primer which is a real problem.

My ammo in a hot car concern relates to bullet lube migration. Back in the day, .22 rimfire ammo had bullets with thick wax lube and was sold in cardboard boxes with the cartridges packed alternating bullet up, bullet down. In my 67 years shooting .22 rimfire, I have read and been told that the wax could melt and migrate when a box of .22 ammo was left in the glove box over a summer or summers and would affect the powder or even primers of the cartridges oriented bullet up resulting in squibs or dead cartridges, but the cartridges oriented bullet down would fire OK.

I took that as a reason to prefer ammo in plastic boxes where the cartridges all hang nose down in the tray, especially when I keep a spare box of .22 in the truck glove box as a reserve. When I buy bulk pack boxes of loose .22 cartridges, I transfer them to plastic boxes of 50 or 100 rounds, mostly for convenience of size, but also out of concern over melted bullet lube migrating to the powder/primer if the ammo is exposed to heat.
 
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