ammo interchangeability

docwharden1881

docwharden1881

member
Joined
Apr 17, 2024
Messages
79
Location
midwest
Let me preface this by saying I want to be safe and in no way encouraging unsafe practices. I am, however, curious about different ammo in different guns. Google was not really helpful and I',m not going to take a guy at the gun store's word for it so i'm asking here. Cleaning out the barn/shed i found two boxes of .45 Schofield aka .45 S & W. Aside from being old and a little discolored it seemed okay. Here is the issue if any. All I have are Colts. All revolvers b.t.w.
I was assured it would be fine to shoot the .45 S & W out of the Colts. But I am leery to do so. The same guy also said .380 out of a nine mm is okay b/c .380 is also called 9 milimeter short.

I know some ammo interchange is okay such as:
.38 spc in a .357
.44 spc in a .44 magnum
(Roy Harrell, brother of Paul, showed 10 mm and .40 S & W out of the same pistol)
possibly .223 in a 5.56?

I'm not going to mess around with any of this until I know it will be 100% safe for me and the firearm. Thanks in advance.

-Doc
 
There was an article addressing this very thing in HANDLOADER.
The Horse Soldiers were issues Colt Peacemakers and Model 3 S&W aka Scholefields. Since the Smiths had shorter cylinders and ejected all cases via a Star Extractor the S&W round will fire in a Colt and obviously work in both. Infact the Frankford Arsenal only made the Scholefield rounds for issue.
 
What Colts do you own? Hard to give advice without knowing specifics. Assuming they are chambered in 45 Colt, you'll be fine. Colts chambered in any other round will probably be a no go.

It's possible to shoot .380 in a 9mm but it doesn't really work very well. The case is smaller and doesn't seal. The bullet is the correct diameter so it's not going to hurt anything, but much less pressure so It's not going to function correctly.
 
reddog81 said:
What Colts do you own? Hard to give advice without knowing specifics. Assuming they are chambered in 45 Colt, you'll be fine. Colts chambered in any other round will probably be a no go.

It's possible to shoot .380 in a 9mm but it doesn't really work very well. The case is smaller and doesn't seal. The bullet is the correct diameter so it's not going to hurt anything, but much less pressure so It's not going to function correctly.
Click to expand...
mainly ssa 'peacemakers' in .45 lc
i'm not considering the dragoon, navy, wells fargo since they are cap-n-ball
the walker (Uberti/Cimarron arms) is also not one I plan to try with anything other than .45
 
docwharden1881 said:
The same guy also said .380 out of a nine mm is okay b/c .380 is also called 9 milimeter short.
Click to expand...
It depends on what you mean by "okay." It won't blow up the gun. But it probably won't cycle and accuracy may be poor, and you will definitely get bulged and possibly split cases. It's not something you want to do intentionally or regularly. Case dimentions are not the same at the base/web. The 9mm case is larger in diameter near the rim and tapers to the mouth.

.40 S&W in a 10mm chamber is often done by people who own them, and I personally wouldn't have an issue doing it myself. The cartridge case is held only by the extractor so you may potentially get accelerated wear there, or have some failures due to excessive case headspace. It's probably wiser to just shoot .40 rounds in a .40 chamber. But in a pinch I'd not have an issue doing this.

.223 Remington and 5.56x45 Nato are essentially identical, unless you have a chamber specifically cut for match-level .223 Remington and you shoot 5.56 through it. Even then IMO IMO IMO IMO you won't have any serious issues. 99.999% of AR-15s and other semi-automatic rifles chambered for ".223" are actually designed with Wylde or 5.56 chamber dimensions to be safe and functional with either ammo. Shooting ACTUAL .223 Remington-spec ammo in an ACTUAL 5.56x45 Nato chamber is a non-issue.

Personally I'd take your old boxes of Schofield ammo to the next gun show and sell them for $100 a box to a collector, and use the proceeds to buy fresh .45 Colt ammo or components.
 
Most 10mm pistols will shoot 40 S&W with no issues. I've done it multiple times with several Glocks and a Smith M&P. They have been 100% reliable, just as accurate, and POI didn't change. But just like firing a lot of 38's in a 357, or 44 Specials in a 44 Magnum the chamber is going to get fouled and you may have trouble getting the longer 10mm cartridge to chamber if it's done on a regular basis. I've done it just enough to prove to myself it works in an emergency, but I've always been able to find 10mm ammo and at about the same price as 40 so there isn't much incentive to do it.

If the gun has a 5.56 chamber either 5.56 or 223 is fine in any gun. Technically you're not supposed to fire 5.56 in a 223 chamber, but the only issue would be if done in a Semi-auto. Semi-autos are designed to work within a specific range of cartridge pressures. Too little, or too much pressure and you get malfunctions. Too much pressure over extended time can lead to premature parts breakage.

To my knowledge the only semi-auto ever chambered in 223 were the very early Ruger Mini-14's. They quickly changed to 5.56 chambers to avoid the problem. Those haven't been made in years and I've never seen an AR with a 223 chamber. You'll never have issues firing 5.56 in a 223 bolt action. But IME you don't get optimum accuracy either. Most people would prefer the more accurate 223 in a bolt gun.

You actually see far more problems related to this with 30-06. The WW-1 30-06 load was a 150 gr bullet at 2700 fps. By WW-2 it was 2800 fps. The Garand, and most civilian semi-auto 30-06 rifles are designed for this load. But today factory loads are 2900-3100 fps. This is a far greater difference than between 223 and 5.56 and will cause far more problems if modern commercial loads are fired in semi-autos. Yet they are all labeled 30-06. You just have to know which loads to use in a semi-auto.

It is safe to fire 300 H&H magnum in a 300 Weatherby magnum. The 300 H&H will fire form to make 300 WBY cases.
 
If it truly is antique 45 Schofield ammo found in a barn, it’s probably worth a bit to collectors. It should be safe to shoot in any 45 Colt handgun, but…

1. It might be loaded with black powder. This would require pretty thorough cleaning.
2. Being stored in a barn with swings in temperature and humidity for a long time may have compromised the reliability.
 
Yup, the Ruger Mini 14 was chambered in .223 until at least the 1990’s, my mid-1990’s Ranch Rifle is so marked (tough to get a good photo under the scope).

IMG_4834.jpeg

I do have a 1990’s era Colt AR-15, err a “Match Target Competition HBAR II”, that is marked as .223 on the lower receiver, but the barrel is marked 5.56 NATO. (I think the receiver is marked with the .223 as a work around for the state AWB, which more specific on banning guns by name at that time.)

IMG_4674.jpeg


Stay safe.
 
docwharden1881 said:
The same guy also said .380 out of a nine mm is okay b/c .380 is also called 9 milimeter short.
Click to expand...
Wellll, he's an idiot. 9mm KURTZ is .380 and while that short 9mm may go down the barrel the ammunition probably won't load and firearms function will be impacted (extraction and ejection and case splitting come to mind along with not loading from the magazine).
 
There was an agency that would slip a .380 in with 9mm P to set up malfunctions to be cleared in training. It didn't hurt the Berettas but it didn't function, either. But that was the idea.

As said, real antique .45 Schofield would be worth more to a collector than to shoot.
Got pictures of the ammo, headstamp, and box?
 
Riomouse911 said:
Yup, the Ruger Mini 14 was chambered in .223 until at least the 1990’s, my mid-1990’s Ranch Rifle is so marked
Click to expand...
marked .223 but it's a 5.56 chamber. Except the rare and discontinued Mini-14 TARGET model with the harmonic damping thing on the barrel, they are all actually 5.56 chambers, though the receivers are marked .223.
 
(LEGAL DISCLAIMER- I'm not advocating this, but......)
I've seen folks shoot .308 out of both .30-06 and 7.7 Jap rifles.

In an Arisaka, one would have to load only only round in the magazine and let the bolt pick it up for controlled feed, won't work with more than 1, and you can't just pop the round in the chamber either. The case mouth will blow out and accuracy will be terrible because you're throwing a .308 bullet down a .311 bore, but it will go bang.

Garands will feed, fire, and (usually) eject .308 from the clip. Grouping will typically be surprisingly good, but they will often short stroke a bit due to lower pressure at the port and may not strip the next round successfully. The case mouth will blow out to the shoulder of an '06 cartridge, ejecting essentially straight-walled brass.

Same story with an '03, except they will feed all 5 fine from the magazine.

Once again, not advocating, but Ive seen it done.

.22WRF will chamber and fire just fine from a .22WMR chamber. In fact, it makes for a really dandy, low-recoil cartridge in .22 Magnum derringers- assuming you can find it, of course.
 
Last edited:
tws3b2 said:
Just stick with what's stamped on the gun. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Except if you do this - you miss out on .38 Special out of .357 Magnum.
Or shorts out of a .22 revolver.
Or some other well-known and actually useful exceptions (.32 caliber, etc).


Which is why this always comes up, and rightfully so. IMHO, a sticky thread somewhere outlining the non-controversial cases at least would be a great service to the board.
 
I've shot 44 mag out of a 444 Marlin. Of course it wouldn't feed out of the tube mag but loaded individually it would work. And of course 45 colt will shoot out of a 410, or rather a 410 will shoot out of a 45 colt with a long enough chamber. I have a 410 shotgun that will fire 45 colts but not very accurately since it has no rifling.

The 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) was the original name for the 30-30 Win. Winchester first named it the 30 WCF, Marlin soon after brought out their lever actions and called it the 30-30. I have an early 40's made 94 Winchester marked 30 WCF. But the 30-30 name caught on.

The old 38-55 cartridge will shoot in a Marlin 375. The 375 Win is just an updated 38-55. Though it would probably be unwise to shoot 375 ammo in old rifles chambered in 38-55 I think there are some modern 38-55s being made. They don't make 375 Win anymore so if you want factory ammo the 38-55 is your only choice.
 
Last edited:
NIGHTLORD40K said:
(LEGAL DISCLAIMER- I'm not advocating this, but......)
I've seen folks shoot .308 out of both .30-06 and 7.7 Jap rifles.

In an Arisaka, one would have to load only only round in the magazine and let the bolt pick it up for controlled feed, won't work with more than 1, and you can't just pop the round in the chamber either. The case mouth will blow out and accuracy will be terrible because you're throwing a .308 bullet down a .311 bore, but it will go bang.

Garands will feed, fire, and (usually) eject .308 from the clip. Grouping will typically be surprisingly good, but they will often short stroke a bit due to lower pressure at the port and may not strip the next round successfully. The case mouth will blow out to the shoulder of an '06 cartridge, ejecting essentially straight-walled brass.

Same story with an '03, except they will feed all 5 fine from the magazine.

Once again, not advocating, but Ive seen it done.

.22WRF will chamber and fire just fine from a .22WMR chamber. In fact, it makes for a really dandy, low-recoil cartridge in .22 Magnum derringers- assuming you can find it, of course.
Click to expand...
You beat me to it, NIGHTLORD40K. I have a nice type 99 and it will feed and chamber 308 ammo. Mine feeds five out of the magazine as well. Of course, the cases are trashed after doing this. You end up with a case that has a shoulder and the tiniest bit of a neck. But don't stop with 308 ammo!!! Most type 99s will feed and fire 7.65 Argentine and .300 Savage ammo as well. Accuracy is usually good with the Argentine ammo because the bullet is the correct .311 diameter. The savage case comes out as a straight walled case with the tiniest bit of a shoulder. Accuracy on my gun isn't too bad with 308s.

As NIGHTLORD40K has stated, this is not a recommended practice. And it is best to avoid the "last ditch" type 99s. Not because they are unsafe ( they had to pass proof, just like the earlier guns ) but because the chamber and bore dimensions can be all over the place.

Astra 400s. So many myths about these guns. For starters, there is nothing magical about a 400s chamber. The gun was intended to shoot 9mmLargo ammo and nothing else! The only safe alternative is 9mm Steyr ammo, because it is the right length and dimensionally almost identical to the largo ammo.

Some 400s will accept 38 supers. NOT THE BEST IDEA!!! If you can find any 38 Auto rounds, they are safe to shoot. The gun will shoot Supers, but that is like shooting proof rounds through the gun. If it doesn't break something, it will beat itself to death in short order. The early 400s had a tendency to crack the slide in the ejection port area. This leads to the slide eventually breaking in two, with the rear half coming back and straight into the shooter's face. It happened to me, and I was shooting Largo ammo at the time. Shooting glasses saved my left eye.

As the OP mentioned, .38 SPLs in a .357 are OK. .38 Short Colt ammo works fine in a Spl chamber ( or a 357 ) but it makes a mess in the chamber
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3707[1].JPG
    IMG_3707[1].JPG
    188.2 KB · Views: 18
tubeshooter said:
Except if you do this - you miss out on .38 Special out of .357 Magnum.
Or shorts out of a .22 revolver.
Or some other well-known and actually useful exceptions (.32 caliber, etc).


Which is why this always comes up, and rightfully so. IMHO, a sticky thread somewhere outlining the non-controversial cases at least would be a great service to the board.
Click to expand...
Well, I shoot 38spl out of my 38spl and 357 out of 357. Don't think 22 really count since your shooting 22 out of a 22 unless it is stamped as different "l" "lr".
I only shoot 5.56 out of 5.56 even though it can shoot 223 because "why"?
223 not as accurate out of 5.56 and 5.56 can be found for less $.
So, Just stick with what's stamped and live happily ever after.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ExAgoradzo
  • Locked
Interchangeable Ammo
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
ExAgoradzo
ExAgoradzo
S
  • Locked
Interchangeable calibers?
Replies
14
Views
8K
NMshooter
N
ACP
  • Locked
What role does ammo cost play in your gun selection?
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
3K
herkyguy
herkyguy
D
  • Locked
Everyone Heads-up. Cheap Ammo
Replies
6
Views
821
Remander
R
M
  • Locked
.38 s&w, and .38 spl die interchangability?
Replies
10
Views
5K
VonFatman
V
Back
Top