Ammo: +P and +P+ Not Recommended in S&Ws

[Confederate]

I just received a note from S&W about whether its steel-framed guns were rated for +P or +P+. David Valenze reported: "We would not recommend the use of either +P or +P+ in either of those weapons. As a matter of fact we do not recommend the use of +P+ in any of our weapons. We do sell the original parts for our weapons, but we do not carry any optional buffers or recoil springs."

Actually, I hadn't asked him if S&W carried optional buffers, but I did ask about whether recoil buffers interfered with the reliability of the guns. Wolfe carries a spring kit that adds some extra resistance, and I may try those.

I'm not sure just how +P and +P+ ammo is rated, but I'd think the worst the ammo could do is batter the gun with constant use. The 659 and 5906 should handle the +P okay, but I've heard quite a few people say there's no problem.

Again, this is just about the 659/5906.

 

[christcorp]

It depends on the gun. If it's a 357 magnum, then it can handle ANY 38 special +P ammo available. Because NONE of it is as powerful as the 357 magnum that the gun is intended to shoot. If however it's strictly a 38 special gun, e.g. model 10; then I'd follow the manufacturer's comments. But unless it's a certain 38 special type revolver, that felt a certain way, and they didn't make it in 357 magnum, you should only buy a 357 mag version. Then you have the luxury of also shooting ANY 38 special ammo. Including +P style.

Now, when it comes to some of the semi-autos and firing +P ammo such as a 9mm or 45acp and putting +P ammo through it; I would follow the manufacturers advice. The only other advice from S&W that seems contradictory is with older "K" frame 357 mag models. Such as the Model 13, 19, etc... In their day, the hottest round was the 158 grain magnum. In recent years, they've created a lot of hot rounds such as the 125 grain. And because the 125 grain is smaller, it provides a gap that allows flaming to get to the cone of the barrel. And some of the older styles had flat bottom cones and the flaming could possibly lead to cracking of the cone. But this is only done with the 125 grain and very rarely. So with my model 13, I will shoot 158 grain for self defense. E.g. Hydra-Shok

 

[JohnBT]

"The 659 and 5906 should handle the +P okay"

A steady diet for many years or just a few rounds once a year? How fast do you want to wear out your pistol?

I don't know of any mainstream gun maker who will tell you +P+ is okay. And there isn't any written SAAMI standard for +P+ chamber pressure anyway.

I won't put a buffer in a self defense gun. I have had them interfere with cycling and I have had a couple fall apart and gum up the works.

John

 

[isp2605]

My agency issued alloy framed S&W for 32 yrs. Our last issued S&Ws were 5904/6904. The 659/5906 are steel frame. Our last duty ammo was W-W 115 gr +P+. One of our range officers decided to see how many rds a 5904 could take of +P+ before it went belly up. He documented 80,000 rds of nothing but +P+ before he retired. He had replaced the barrel at 50,000 rds as the rifling was getting pretty worn. He'd also replaced the springs but I don't recall the round count for spring swaps. When he retired he bought that same 5904 and continues to shoot it. The last I saw him was about 1.5 yrs ago and he was still shooting it. Knowing how much he shoots by now he has to have over 100,000 rds thru that same 5904.
I, nor anyone else, can say your particular gun would go 100,000 rds without problems. Yours may go belly up at 10,000 or yours may go well over 100,000. +P+ will accelerate wear just as driving your car everywhere at 100 MPH.
If you can afford to shoot 100,000 rds of +P+, or even the lowest priced 9mm, then the cost of the gun is pretty insignificant by comparison.
Gun makers will not recommend any of their guns for +P+ ammo because as JohnBT said there is no SAAMI spec for +P+.

 

[Coltman 77]

I think the legal department of S&W might have something to do with their press releases.