Ammo picture reportedly from VT murder

[ScottE]

Winchester JHP....

is what they look like to me. I recently bought a box of 50 at Bass Pro Shops for around $15.

Also, I saw a news story a few minutes ago that stated they found as many as 17 magazines in the school and at least a few of them were high capacity (30 rounds) for the Glock. As many as 200 rounds may have been fired according to NBC.

 

[JahRoose]

looks like federal hst to me

 

[Mulliga]

I doubt it's the UMC value pack stuff. That's the ammo I tend to carry, and it has always had a hexagonally shaped opening with distinct edges. These tend to look more rounded.

That "expert" was Joseph Vince, a retired ATF agent

"It's not something that you would need for home protection, because what you are trying to do is eliminate an immediate threat," Vince says. "The idea of killing is what this ammunition portrays to me."

I don't know whether to laugh at that, or cry for the fact that a statement that's so stupid can get on NBC. What the heck does FMJ 9mm portray? Fluffy bunnies?

 

[.cheese.]

another vote for winchester USA JHP - even though I'm not a fan of them

ETA: hmmm... or actually - could be Federal HST as mentioned above.

 

[.cheese.]

wait a tick.... I just checked my ammo. The little bit of HST I have has nickel plated cases.

 

[Sindawe]

I wonder if this so-called "expert" knows that hollow points are used by LEOs nationwide, so they must all be killers! What does he think home protection is, shooting attackers with fluffy bunnies??

Well, even fluffy bunnies can be lethal when moving a relativistic velocities.

I'm just waiting for the gun-grabbers to fixate on the Parabellum part of the cartridge name.

 

[Mike U.]

Here are a pair of crappy pics of Winchester Ranger rounds left is RA9T 9mm and the right is RA45TP 45 ACP+P round for comparison.





Sorry about the pic quality. They are quick pics.

Also, the cases are nickel plated, the 9mm is 147 gr. and the .45 ACP is 230 gr.

 

[P5 Guy]

Hornady XTP 124 grain.

 

[Tinmancr]

yeah...

I'm gonna go with xtp only ones I have seen like that but the old ones are the only ones that color "brass"
but hey thats .44.
also the overpenetrate arguement is void if it is xtp or even the like.
the point is to go way into something resistant, then to expand impressively but controlled.
Hence the fully jacket hollow effect also xtps have a really hard core

 

[BHPshooter]

There is no debate necessary, those are Winchester White box. Both of the WWB offerings (115 and 147 grain) look identical -- you'd have to pull the bullet to determine the weight.

Trust me, I spent couple of years trying EVERY cheap JHP variant that I could find, before I "saw the light" of premium loads. That is Winchester White Box, as seen at wallyworld.

If necessary, I'll go take a pic from the box that I still have in my range bag.

Wes

 

[The_Shootist]

Ammo

Sure looks like WW JHP 147 in 9mm. Alot of guys on Glock Talk seem to agree as well.

Funny, I use that carry ammo in MY G19, except in the 115gr flavour.

And no - I haven't felt any boiling, raging incentives to gold up a convenience store, do a drug deal or visit a campus - despit these posessions.

I guess getting a decent tax refund this year helps - probably spring for a decent AK

 

[paramedic70002]

What I find odd is that he reportedly bought the ammo at Dick's in Charlottesville. For those of you not familiar with the area, that's a bit more than a short drive from VT, like a few hours, and not necessarily the best route he would have used to get back and forth to his home. So what was Mr. Cho doing in C-ville? Maybe scouting UVA as a target?

 

[HornsKeith]

There is no debate necessary, those are Winchester White box. Both of the WWB offerings (115 and 147 grain) look identical -- you'd have to pull the bullet to determine the weight.

Agreed. I've got several boxes of 147gr WWB JHP, and it looks like a perfect match to me. Plus, they're relatively cheap and available at Wal-Mart.

 

[grampster]

I believe the guy who said that those bullets were meant to kill and are not for home defense was a retired ATF agent. If I recall his words..."Those bullets are not intended to stop but to kill."

In home defense, the primary purpose of a firearm and the ammo used is always to stop the threat. Death is sometime a byproduct. So, efficiency should be the prime consideration. Lot's of variables there.

In a perfect world, that fellows remarks should be challenged and set right. Won't happen, though.

 

[clipse]

Those deffinately look like the WWB variety. The Remington ones are more rounded. I actually like the WWB SD rounds. They work wonderfully in all my firearms that I've tried them in.

clipse

 

[The-Fly]

its NOT HST. HST is a nickel case. I am about 99% sure the pictured ammo is WWB, in either 115 or 147gr. Cheap, widely available, and gets the job done (as we sadly saw in VA).

Here's some testing I did with WWB a year ago.

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-3.html

 

[Autolycus]

What does it matter?

 

[hotpig]

Some butt head newbe posted over on XD Talk late last night that it was Ranger 115gr +P+ and put a link to my web site. I have had four nasty calls and six email so far today.

I checked my sales back to 2005 and I did not sale anything to him.

 

[MechAg94]

That does suck hotpig. Hope you can get that website to warn him.

 

[hotpig]

I sent a pm the web site owner and the poster. Both of them seem to be late night posters so I not expect to hear anything until late tonight.

 

[lbmii]

I do believe they are Winchester Law Enforcement SXTs. Notice the Talons. However, I thought they came with nickle plated cases.

 

[hotpig]

They look like standard jhp to me.

 

[Hanzerik]

They sure look like the WWB 147gr JHPs that I have loaded in my XD's mags.

 

[Zoogster]

Based on the amount of time taken to rescue injured, many of whom likely bled to death while the shooting continued, the police figured out what to do, and then the police searched for the gunman before giving the okay for the EMTs to take away the wounded, which at that point some are taken while others await additional transport. Based on all of that I would say that more would have likely died with FMJ rounds than JHP because FMJ rounds go through and while not expanding and creating less tissue damage they do create more bleeding (making entrance and exit wounds) and also have the potential to go through multiple victims.

So I honestly think that in this situation based on the large time between injury and medical treatment would have resulted in more fatalities from blood loss and more targets hit if he had been using FMJ rounds.

Now for self defense or stopping a threat immediately JHP rounds are definately more effective. Since this nutjobs intentions were more concerned with most injured and dead and most people would go a long time without medical treatment, it is fortunate he chose a cheap JHP.

 

[lbmii]

I think and I am almost certain that the ammo pictured is Winchester 9x19mm 127SXT +P+ (Q4280). Sold in 50 round boxes with brass cases. It's high powered and quite deadly.

The media will now show that the Black Talon never really went away.

There will be some interesting political interest in Winchester Ranger ammo.