Ammunition Availability

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Treo

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I don't quite know how to phrase this because I'm not looking to start a caliber war, so I won't mention a specific caliber or I'll just pick one.

What would happen if tomorrow they quit making .30 Carbine ( for example)? What happens to all those guns out there chambered for that round?
Do they become overnight paperweights?

I realize there are hundreds of thousands of M-1 carbines out there but I think it's a good example because only one company (that I know of) is making them.

So to restate the question;
If .30 Carbine dies as a cartridge tomorrow what happens ? Do the rifles become obsolete overnight?

Has such ever happened? are there guns out there for which no one makes cartridges?
 
Sure, there are tons of rifles and handguns for which ammo is no longer commercially available, or available only from custom makers at astronomically high prices.

Those of us who enjoy shooting these old guns simply reload our own. Makes it even more fun.

I wouldnt worry about the world running out of .30 Carbine any time soon.
 
Agreed, reloading is such an easy alternative . . . if you have the time.
 
Just to be real clear .30 Carbine is simply a round I picked because as far as I know there are only 2 firearms made that chamber it.
 
I think there are more than 2 guns made for it. There was a Ruger revolver, Automag III (I think ... maybe II), a San Cristobal subgun.
It's made by Federal, Remington,
Winchester, Wolf, Sellior & Bellot, and Armscor, and maybe others.
 
Lots of calibers have become "obsolete" in the past, and lots more that have been recently introduced are either on their way out the door or will soon be. If a person thinks that a caliber he likes or has guns chambered for might be going that way, it'd be a good idea to stock up with either factory ammunition or cases to be reloaded. Lots of obsolete ammunition can be made from still available cases, e.g., .22 Hi Power and .25-35 from .30-30. Others like .30 Carbine would be hard to make from anything else.

Reloading is the way to go. Most of my guns that have never tasted factory ammo except for test firing by the manufacturer. :D
 
To add a little when you learn to reload. You learn a lot about shooting. You also learn what you can and can not do. As what has already been said. I reload myself. I keep all my brass as thats the most important thing. if you have a caliber that you think is or might go obsolete or the prices are just going to high. then you need to save yours too. Re loading is not hard to do. Its actually very enjoyable. Same time for some people this is the only option. I reload and im glad i do. Its something that really gets you closer to your firearm and shooting.
 
When you run out of brass you buy more. Or you turn down brass. Most reloading manuals give you the sizes and all dimentions of other cases. Take 45 Colt. lets say i want to reload 45 short colt. a hard to find old goverment round. Well by looking at a manual i can find out that 45 colt is the same except for length. So i can very easy take a case trimmer and trim down the cases to fit the 45 short. There are a lot of cases you can do this for. As for the bullets. Well when you cant find them you make them. I cast bullets. It too is not hard to do. its very low cost and its the second most important component. there are old guns like the 7.6 Jap. You cant find ammo for that anymore. however i can easily go to reloading stores and buy a mold. Some companies like earlier mentioned actually specialize in selling obsolete brass. The old western scrounger is one of them. So where there is a will there is a way.
 
The 7.62 Nagant handgun round has been "dead" for decades, yet one can find brass and loaded ammunition without much hassle.

There are dozens of "obsolete" cartridges, but one can still find ammo for almost any of those if one is willing to pay for it.
 
If commercial ammunition was not availabe for a given caliber, there would be someone who would load the ammo for a fee. It's the American way. Improvise. It might make a nice small business to start when you retire but are still active. When a need develops, there is always someone who trys to fill that need and make a buck doing it.

The only caliber I shoot that I believe could become scarace is the 41 magnums. It is unlikely short of a major SHTF circumstance where ammunition would not be available barring legislation that makes it illegal for some reason.
 
Has such ever happened? are there guns out there for which no one makes cartridges?
Click to expand...
Yup. it happens. I own a Prussian (heck, the country hasnt even existed for MANY years now)Mauser made in 1884,chambered in 11.15x60R. AFAIK, no one commercially loads for it, and the tiny but if surplus still around is like $5-$10 per round. No problem. I just load my own ammo for it. there are people who still make the brass and bullets for it (and if they didnt, you can just cast your own bullets, and make your own brass from some other similar cartridge). the only real exception would be some of the obsolete things like pin-fire ammo, or rimfires, as AFAIK, nobody makes the brass, and making your own priming compound is fairly dangerous, and possibly of dubious legality (if not outright ilegal), or even if legal, you may be hard pressed to avoid serious legal problems trying to explaing why you are making it.but, I have heard of people reloading/loading thier own rimfire ammo by making the compound, or by using strike anywhere matchheads, I beleive it was.So, possible legal and doable, but fairly risky, fire/explosion-wise I'd think.
 
If everything in the world for that gun disapears, hang the damn thing on the wall and go on to the next one.
 
I'm Prussian lol...and yeah...That country hasn't been around for a loooooooooong time.

.357 Maximum

My pop still has his, and ammo is just harder to find. That's a gun lots of range folks tell me "You must mean Magnum." So I'd say it counts as dead-ish.
 
Demand is the determining factor when it comes to manufacturers deciding to discontinue a round. As long as they are making money making that round they will continue to produce. The 30 carbine is a good example. There are not many guns made for it but there are a lot of people buying it. If there is a demand those calibers will be made. It was very find 7.62X39 in the 1960s and 70s. 20 years ago 7.5 Swiss and 7.62x54 weren't easy to find.

Major manufacturers will make short runs of speciality ammo if the demand is there and sell it at a premium price.

There are plenty of calibers which ammo is no longer sold and reforming cases is not possible.
 
5mm Remington, anyone? There's new production now, but for a long time there was nothing available but people selling out of their stash for a buck a pop. Anyone still have a Daisy caselss .22? How's that working out for ya?

As has been stated, plenty of examples.
 
Ok what happens when you run out of brass fire up the lathe?
Click to expand...

It’s an interesting question. Historically, if a void in the market were to open up, where significant demand exists; prices of existing stock would increase and a company would begin production of that product to capitalize on this market demand. While prices might remain high for a period, other companies would enter the market due to the profit margin. Competition being what it is, the product or service in question would become cheaper.

There are some scenarios where this won’t happen. For instance, if a product (like ammunition) were to become illegal, then there would be no de jure market for the product, and commercial production would likely cease. However, if significant demand still exists, a black market opens up to capitalize on the profit margin. (For an excellent example, look at illegal drugs.)

If industrial capacity is destroyed by some unforeseen force, (say, EMP) or if illegal smuggling were impartial (perhaps outside the US, the product in question isn’t manufactured anywhere else) then the product would become expensive for some time, but a cottage industry would eventually begin production of highly profitable items. Gunpowder can be made, bullets can be cast, and cases can be stamped. Even small town automotive machine shops can build stamping dies, bullet molds, and powder mills – if enough demand exists that the profit margin is substantial enough to justify the risk of running afoul of the law.
 
I'm told that back when they first decided to abandon the 303 Savage, there was a run on ammunition for them.
Now ammo is rare and expensive. Sometimes you can find the brass if you check out places like Graf's that specialize in hard to find stuff. But even with those obstacles, people still manage to load for them and hunt with them.
Best advice I can give is if you have a caliber that you think is on the way out, buy 1K of ammo for it now and learn to reload. Or sell it and buy a similar gun in a more common caliber.
 
What Oleg said if all of the other alternatives run out now or in the future.

There used to be people who were trained in such things. There are STILL some people who have various skills - they are 'can do' people - think of USN Seabee types.

Trade skilled men and women can use their brains and common sense when it comes to building anything from a to z and that includes anything to do with 'firearms'.

Catherine
 
The only way I cold get ammo for this revolver is to buy antique stock at several dollars per round.

100_2773.jpg

It's a Colt 1862 Pocket Police .38 rimfire conversion.

Most rimless centerfire rounds have case heads that are identical to some other rounds, and so brass can be formed from more available rounds.
 
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