An interesting story at the doctors office
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Vern Humphrey
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Well, you could make a point that all those NDs ARE training. Or as Uncle Herbivore says, "Pain is Nature's way of saying, 'Don't do that again, Dummy.'"
The biggest joke of all of this is the XD fanboys claiming it can't happen because of the grip safety. Well the first run of XDS's had several cases of the gun going off just from racking the slide. The recalled the ENTIRE first run. And the reality is a vast majority if "Glock leg" incidents happen when LE officers are holstering their weapons. Do you seriously believe that the grip safety isn't being depressed when a gun is being holstered? Of course there's not much chance of an LE officer
getting "XD leg", what do they have like 2% of the issued LE business?
Striker fired guns require trigger discipline, but so do ALL guns, don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to use the thing. I've carried 1911's, Glocks, and Sig DA/SA's and never come close to getting shot with any of them. Safe firearms use is safe firearms use period.
getting "XD leg", what do they have like 2% of the issued LE business?
Striker fired guns require trigger discipline, but so do ALL guns, don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to use the thing. I've carried 1911's, Glocks, and Sig DA/SA's and never come close to getting shot with any of them. Safe firearms use is safe firearms use period.
jerkface11
Member
Gotta love the people blaming this on it being a Glock when we don't even know what kind of gun it was. For all we know it was a Star BM.
WardenWolf
member
It's still impossible to deny that a Glock is inherently less safe than almost any other pistol made today, or even in the last 50 years. Every other design has at least one functional safety device to prevent a discharge if the trigger is pulled under certain conditions. You can spout "training" all you want, but nothing will change that fact. I'd rather carry a 1911 or Tokarev in condition 1 over a Glock. At least in those cases I know there's at least one barrier to an accidental discharge, and one is better zero any day.
Sergei Mosin
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Glocks demand absolute perfection in safe handling. There isn't anything mechanical to protect you from yourself. No grip safety, no thumb safety, no heavy trigger (unless you install one of the NY trigger springs), nothing to stop the gun from firing if you make a mistake. So, don't make a mistake, or carry something a little more forgiving of user error.
jerkface11
Member
An original Tokarev has no safety at all.
WardenWolf
member
But all the imported ones do. And the trigger block safety is better than nothing.
Which is why my XD45 also has the external thumb safety. Could have bought a Glock. But I wanted more safety features. Shtuff happens. When Mr. Murphy shows up, I want as many variables on my side as I can. But really, any firearm can fail. the guy admitted he was in a hurry. Who knows what really happened.
Plan2Live
Member
burk said:
burk also said:
When I am holstering my XDm, once the muzzle is aligned with the holster I intentionally loosen my grip so as to allow the grip safety to engage. I end the holstering process by using my thumb only to push down on the back of the slide fully seating the pistol in the holster, If your gun comes with a safety device you have to give it a chance to work or you have defeated its very purpose.
burk also said:
I'm guessing by that comment you are suggesting that Glock is somehow superior than other options simply because of its prevalence in budget minded law enforcement agencies. If that is the case, do you drive a Crown Victoria and wear a polyester ensemble?
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lysanderxiii
Member
Mistake on the owner, yes.
But-
You literally can pull a Model 36 out of your pocket by the trigger and it won't go off.
In this case the gun kind'a did go off on it's own. No weapon, especially a gun designed to be carried with a round in the chamber and ready to shoot, should be so sensitive as to go off because it was just being carried in a pocket...
Zaydok Allen
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I do the same with my XDs
Delford
Member
Both my IWB holsters cover the triggers and mag releases so I'm not worried about a ND. I'm interested in the :45 it took to register the pain. I was using a mechanical floor nailer and almost done with a 10x14 space using red oak boards. I had been careful to keep my feet away from the hitting surface but was careless and hit my big toe in my boot. I knew it was going to hurt so I immediately began to flex my toes and walk around. It took about a minute for the pain to hit and I was moving around when it hit. All that to say that a bullet wound not in a CNS location may not register in the recipient (i.e. bad guy) so it may take numerous well placed hits on a charging person to stop the threat. This is not news to most of you but just a related reminder.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have seen men with multiple mortal wounds continue to fight. On one occasion, I made the mistake of stepping over the body of a man whom I had seen shot multiple times, and he tried to shoot me in the back. Fortunately, one of my men was following me.
Jesse H
Member
Detail strip a Glock. It's ridiculously simple and you'll learn that the, "a Glock has NO safety" comment isn't true.
Don't like Glocks, fine. Please learn a few things about certain platforms before commenting inaccurately. I'm biased because I was given one and forced to carry it. Now I'm proficient with one. If you're not comfortable carrying one, don't. I'm not comfortable carrying a 1911 because they have manual safeties and I don't train nearly enough with one. That, for me, makes it "unsafe." I know that the design itself is very safe cocked and locked.
XD's are great, my first carry pistol was an HS2000. With the grip safety, you can introduce another point of failure whether it's mechanical or induced by the operator's poor grip due to stress or external conditions introduced.
As with all tools, having good equipment and training is paramount.
There are about a billion and three handguns on the market that function exactly the same.
Striker fired pistols are all the rage, for many reasons, and a great many have triggers with basically identical pull weights/distances as Glock with no manual safeties.
Uh...no.
He's saying that if there are 50 times more Glocks than _X_ pistol in LE holsters, then all else equal there are probably going to be 50 times more instances of _whatever_ with Glocks from LE holsters than with _X_ pistol. Petty simple numbers game that applies to many things in life. There are A LOT MORE GLOCKS than probably any other specific pistol in law enforcement and private citizen/concealed carry.
And, again, there are a billion and three pistols that will fire when the trigger is pulled exactly like a Glock. I would attempt to list all o the manufacturers but it's just too many...I think every major manufacturer has some.
Realize, of course, that people have a tendency to say the gun "just went off" because they are unwilling or unable to admit they did something that caused them to pull the trigger.
And I'll bet the gun did not go off just because it was being carried in a pocket, something pulled the trigger. I really, really don't think it thought "hey, I'm in a pocket, I think I should self-discharge right about now because I don't like it in here". Depending on many variables, not the least of which is the pants or shorts material, things in life can happen that might pull a trigger through your pants material. Just ask plaxico burress (sp?). Grabbing at the gun to keep it from falling or to turn it around in your pocket, you may pull the trigger. This is why HOLSTERS are kind of a requirement ,they are designed specifically to prevent this.
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old lady new shooter
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This is complete garbage. There has never been one case of an XD failing to fire because of the grip safety. If grip safeties were dangerous, why are they still on 1911's after a hundred years of use?
I think that Glock fanboys should remove the seat belts, airbags and every other safety feature on their cars because they are all points of failure that could cause an accident.
How does the presence of a seat belt cause accidents?
Do you suspect that, perhaps, if you are now arguing that seat belts cause accidents, you are barking up the wrong tree?
Jesse H
Member
Because 1911's are great platforms? I'm not knocking 1911's, XD's nor am I praising Glocks as the best pistol ever. It isn't difficult at all to poorly grip an XD so that one's unable to pull the trigger. Not all gunfights are at relaxed, air conditioned square ranges with paper targets. Stuff happens, you're not always able to square up and achieve a proper grip and stance. Take a few classes, find out how your equipment works in variable situations.
Because yes, I have seen XD's not fire. It's not all that difficult to replicate it. Doesn't make it a bad pistol nor does it make it safer. If you carry an XD, understand that can happen.
I'm pointing out that nothing is perfect, train and have good equipment and know your equipment.
Plan2Live
Member
And when you remove the presence of a grip safety you introduce a point of failure in re-holstering which has been proven to be a common risk associated with striker fired pistols. You re-holster thousands of times but most of us will hopefully go our entire lives without needing to use our pistol in self defense mode. What are the chances you are going to grip the pistol incorrectly that one time you need it? If you have trained properly I am guessing not much chance of that happening.
I can make a sound argument for manual safeties and against them, I can make a sound argument for and against magazine disconnect safeties, I can make a sound argument for and against grip safeties, I can make a sound argument for and against a duty pistol vs hooker gun, double stack vs single stack, small caliber vs large caliber and on and on. What we have proven in this thread (and many others that devolve into fanboyism) is carrying a concealed weapon, any concealed weapon, is a great big bundle of compromise and there is no one size fits all answer and there is no "best pistol ever designed" and you should quickly turn a deaf ear to anyone who tries to argue otherwise.
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A few years back we had a sheriff in a surrounding county who carried his glock 26 in his right front pocket without a holster and it caught up with him. He routinely carried car keys in the same pocket. While on duty he reached in his pocket to get his keys and a key caught the trigger just right and he shot a nice hole in his right foot. He was a diabetic and nearly lost his foot for his sloppy gun handling. Of course being in the south he caught all sorts of Barney Fife comments. Even had a local radio station call him in the hospital to rag him about it. I have carried a P32 for 15 yrs. and no incident, always holstered.
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