An unusual reloading setup? Single stage for sizing/decapping, RCBS Auto Prime, Dillon 5 stage to finish

[GW Staar]

Virtually never - I did have one short pin, the same length as a primer pocket diameter, get stuck. I got it out and chucked it. So far, just that one.

So far that's zero for me. Though I've heard of it, I've never personally experienced it tumbling .45acp, .40, .357, .223, or .308.......so far...... since my purchase of a Thumblers B 15 years ago. I do use an RCBS separator to separate pins and brass immediately after a tumble...... probably advantageous to have a larger sink..........and a grey water valve and outlet to the edge plantings. Or in Summer, the back yard lawn, and a watering hose is great.....fertilizer....


For me at least, this additional step for my vanity is worth the small amount of extra effort.....I don't have a dryer.....Just the west facing back patio in the New Mexico Sun. Below, is 9mm.

 

[Varminterror]

He thinks the Lee APP is the best thing ever and is looking for another

I have two, and I'm working on deciding whether I want a 3rd, or develop a better way to adapt the case feeder tube height control. Originally, one of mine was a Lee ACP, instead of the APP Deluxe, but I bought the conversion kit to get away from the poorly designed primer chute. So I keep one set up for decapping, one set up for priming, and I'm tempted to get a 3rd to have available for other actions without doing anything to these.

 

[Jim Watson]

Sounds like what I once read about home appliances. They didn't really save any work, they just raised your standards.

 

[Mike P Wagner]

Amazing thread. The level of detail impressive. And OP, you say you're "thinking" about reloading but not actually doing it yet? I don't think you've been warned that once you start it's like the fog of war, all your planning will be greatly stressed. So have plans B, C, and D ready to go (along with the cash to pay for them).

Good luck

A decade or so ago, I reloaded 45 LC on a Lyman Turret press. I stopped reloading and shot infrequently until I retired in 2019. Started shooting more after that, but my retirement gift to myself was an FN FiveSeven. I didn't really have a hankering to reload 5.7x28.

I got tired of buying 5.7x28, so I sold the FiveSeven and bought a PX4 in 9mm, and I have a bit of a hankering to reload again.

 

[LV Gun]

I proposed the following in a thread with GW Starr, but I thought I would bring it up to a wider audience for comment.

I am thinking about re-loading and I think I want separate seating and crimping stations, potential for a bullet feed station, and a powder check station of some kind. Since that is 4 stations, I don't think a 5 station press is what I want.

One option is to go with an RCBS Rock Chucker Pro 7 or a Lee 6 station press (I forget the name).

The other option I have thought of is a single stage press for sizing/decapping and an RCSB Auto Priming Tool, followed by a 5 station press set up:

Station 1: Expand/Powder Charge
Station 2: Powder Check (DAA Magnetic Powder Check, RCBS Powder Cop, or something like that)
Station 3: Bullet Feed
Station 4: Bullet Seating
Station 5: Bullet Crimping

This would also give me some flexibility to ultrasonically clean the primer pockets after decapping before priming.

My motivation for the RCBS Auto Priming Tool is that from what I can tell, priming is often the most finicky step on a progressive press there are fixes for al of the issues, but when there is an issue on a progressive, it often seems to involve priming.

I think that I could size/decap a whole lot of brass in an evening and throw it in the ultrasonic cleaner, and the next evening prime it all. Then it would be ready to go for the progressive.

I believe in the KISS principle I have 2 Lee turret presses a LCT and a new Value turret press I load 9 different calibers using all Lee equipment. I tumble clean my brass in a 60/40 mix of corn cob and walnut in a Berry’s tumbler , then load , I do not clean primer pockets never have in 29 years, only brass I trim is 357 , 44 magnum and 454 Casull. I prime on the press and use all Lee 4 die sets with the FCD die in them, so I can drop powder on the press with 2 Lee powder measures a Pro Disk and a Pro Auto Drum .

One note on the Lee FCD dies - Some people like them some don’t but I do.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'd raise the single stage decapper/sizer + RCBS Auto Prime combo and get a Lee APP Deluxe - or better still, I'd get TWO..

I ended up with two when I converted my ACP to a APP Deluxe.

I have them mounted on Inline Fabrication Quick Change plates and just loosen two wing nuts and switch presses

1) Wash
2) Dry
3) Decap & size on Lee APP
4) Prime on Lee A

Then move to your 5 station press to charge, check, bullet feed, seat, crimp.

The above is the process I use for reloading .38Spl on my Hornady LNL AP

 

[Varminterror]

I have them mounted on Inline Fabrication Quick Change plates and just loosen two wing nuts and switch presses

Same.

 

[CQB45ACP]

So far that's zero for me. Though I've heard of it, I've never personally experienced it tumbling .45acp, .40, .357, .223, or .308.......so far...... since my purchase of a Thumblers B 15 years ago. I do use an RCBS separator to separate pins and brass immediately after a tumble...... probably advantageous to have a larger sink..........and a grey water valve and outlet to the edge plantings. Or in Summer, the back yard lawn, and a watering hose is great.....fertilizer....


For me at least, this additional step for my vanity is worth the small amount of extra effort.....I don't have a dryer.....Just the west facing back patio in the New Mexico Sun. Below, is 9mm.

Spectacular! Your secret to such clean brass please!

 

[JohnMc]

So far that's zero for me. Though I've heard of it, I've never personally experienced it tumbling .

It was definitely the odd one out. It was about 1/2 the length of the rest of 'em; large primer pocket ID.

probably advantageous to have a larger sink.

100%, I use the laundry sink.

.I don't have a dryer.....Just the west facing back patio in the New Mexico Sun.

I don't have one either. I get by with North Carolina sun 8 or 9 months a year. Granted, our humidity is quite a bit more than yours, but it works very well and the price is excellent.

 

[JohnMc]

Spectacular! Your secret to such clean brass please!

I'll bet it's wet tumbling with pins, soap (Dawn, Armor-All Wash and Wax, or something along those lines) and a mild acid (citric, Lemishine or vinegar).
Separate pins, rinse well, dry, and store.
Also, they were decapped prior to cleaning.
I happen to like the Armor All stuff, because the light coating of carnauba wax keeps them shiny for a long time. I am currently trying the Turtle brand equivalent; it seems OK.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I'll bet it's wet tumbling with pins, soap (Dawn, Armor-All Wash and Wax, or something along those lines) and a mild acid (citric, Lemishine or vinegar).
Separate pins, rinse well, dry, and store.
Also, they were decapped prior to cleaning.
I happen to like the Armor All stuff, because the light coating of carnauba wax keeps them shiny for a long time. I am currently trying the Turtle brand equivalent; it seems OK.

I do all that too but his are especially shiny and on the inside. I shootbwithin days of cleaning so not interested in duration...I want bling!

 

[JohnMc]

I do all that too but his are especially shiny and on the inside. I shootbwithin days of cleaning so not interested in duration...I want bling!

My problem is I pick up too much brass...and then clean it. I have at least 500, maybe more, .40 S&W all clean and shiny. The problem? I don't own a .40 S&W. If I picked it up, it went into the bag and later cleaned and sorted it. 'Cause, you know, someday.
It's slightly less of a problem since I gave up my range membership (I can shoot on my own property, after moving.)

 

[CQB45ACP]

My problem is I pick up too much brass...and then clean it. I have at least 500, maybe more, .40 S&W all clean and shiny. The problem? I don't own a .40 S&W. If I picked it up, it went into the bag and later cleaned and sorted it.
It's slightly less of a problem since I gave up my range membership (I can shoot on my own property, after moving.)

Repeat after me: "Hello everyone, I'm a reloader and I have a problem."

 

[JohnMc]

but his are especially shiny and on the inside

I skipped this bit before. I get those results by not putting too much brass in the tumbler or by repeating the wash with fresh water, soap, and lemishine.

Repeat after me: "Hello everyone, I'm a reloader and I have a problem."

Yes, that's me.

 

[GW Staar]

Spectacular! Your secret to such clean brass please!

No secret just followed the recipe the Mod at AR15 sweared by many years ago. This is what I do, I'm certain it's not the only way. Works every time for me, illustrated below:

Here's the steps that go along with the picture:
1. cut top out of a 2 Liter Soda bottle, so that it is 6" long.....fill with brass. (this is the Maximum volume for any kind of brass. Less is OK, too.
2. I use 2 1/2 cups of magnetic S. S. pins......pour them in the Thumbler B. model. (magnetic comes in handy to return ALL the brass to its container between tumbles.)
3. Pour the cases in and add COLD water to about an inch below the rim. Don't know why, but cold water works better than hot, "others" have tested and verified that, not me. I just use what worked.
4. I fill a .45ACP case full of Lemishine powder and pour that in.
5. I add two quick squirts of Dawn. (Never tried any polish additive)
6. I screw the lid on pretty tight......I hated the wing nuts that came with the tumbler, so I bought some "real" ones.
7. Drop the barrel onto the tumbler base and turn it on.
8. Depending on the brass 1 or 2 hours is enough (I bought a timer for my AC outlet.....usually just set it for two hours......to be sure....and haven't been disappointed.
Once done, I rinse as demonstrated by the video.

I know this tumbler thing is somewhat off topic, and I hope people will go back on and not continue this line.......but I know the O.P. is just starting out (again) and he'll eventually use this technology, because it is just a pleasure to use and imo makes the hobby more positive and fun.

 

[GW Staar]

Somebody needs to fix this THR problem.....too easy to screw up editing and add another post.....especially with a new HP laptop with a touch pad that is worthless to type with. First laptop I truly hate. Curser surfs all over the screen and causes pure hell trying to share something. And THR won't allow a new post to be deleted by the author. CastBoolits does, and they use the same software. Sure saves a lot of grief for the users. This post is replacing the last post's double post. So Walkalong please delete it.

 

[dartor]

My problem is I pick up too much brass...and then clean it. I have at least 500, maybe more, .40 S&W all clean and shiny. The problem? I don't own a .40 S&W. If I picked it up, it went into the bag and later cleaned and sorted it. 'Cause, you know, someday.
It's slightly less of a problem since I gave up my range membership (I can shoot on my own property, after moving.)

I had brass, primers, powder, dies, and bullets at least six months before I bought my S&W mod 29. I knew I was going to buy eventually so I stocked up on everything I needed to reload for it. As much as I shoot I knew buying factory ammo would get old quick. It's never had a factory round through it.

 

[Mike P Wagner]

A number of people have mentioned Dillon XL 750 and Hornady LnL AP - and both fo them are great if you want a 5 station press. From what I can tell, the Dillons XL 750, Hornady LnL AP, and the RCBS Pro Chucker 5 are are roughly equivalent quality.

I really want separate bullet seat and crimp, a powider check of some kind, and the possibility of a bullet feed die. That’s 4 stations.

So my choices as I see them are to augment a 5 station press with a single stage for some of the earlier operations, or look for a press with at least 6 stations.

The options in that category as far ask I know are the Frankford Armory X-10, the RCBS Rock Chucker Pro 7, the Lee 6000 Six Pack, and the Dillon RL 1100 - not the 650.

The Dillon entry in thus groups is more than twice the cost of the X-10 - $2250 vs $999.

The RCBS Pro Chucker 7 is $1300 and I would probably have to spend another $350 for a case collator feeder - the X-10 comes with one.

Every press seems to have a group of people who say, “I’ve been reloading for 25 years, and I’ve put 100K though my ________ and I’ve never had an issue.”

Every press seems to have a group of people who report primer feed issues and/or case feed issues. It is very hard to tell the relative reliability.

Of course, no one has been reloading the X-10 or the Pro Chucker 7 for 25 years.

Watching YouTube videos, there are a coupe (maybe 3) channels - Bragging Rights, Reloading Journey, and GunBlue490 - that claim that the reported issues were due to improper setup and/or user error. The initlal setup appears to be much more complicated than any of the big three 5 station presses.

At least one of them - maybe GunBlue490 - says that if you set up/operate the X-10 like a Dillion, you are going to have issues. For example, he claims that you need to be careful not to short stroke the press at all (it has a very long stroke) and pause at the bottom or you will get inconsistent powder charges.

It looks like changing calibers on the X-10 is more cumbersome than on any of the other presses - many more parts have to be changed.

I am also not thrilled that that some of the stations seemed to be fixed. I think that I would glad to give up the 2nd decamping station and shift things around so that the bullet feed and seat were in different srations.

That’s the summary of what I had learned from this thread to this point.

Thanks to all, and I will keep reading.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The options in that category as far ask I know are the Frankford Armory X-10, the RCBS Rock Chucker Pro 7, the Lee 6000 Six Pack, and the Dillon RL 1100 - not the 650.

You left out the Mark 7 Apex-10...which is very comparable in price to the Dillon, but a much nicer (engineered) machine

While you can get caliber conversion kits for the 10-station (Mark 7 and FA) and the 8-station (Dillon), they really aren't designed to be easily converted over between calibers...although I do have a friend who has an Apex-10 and 2 extra tool heads

I really want separate bullet seat and crimp, a powider check of some kind, and the possibility of a bullet feed die

If that's really all you need, the Lee Pro 6000 would meet all your needs with it's 6 stations...as long as you don't mind priming. expanding, and dropping powder all at the same station.

Just so you know that I'm not giving empty opinions with built-in bias:
1. I used to have a Hornady LNL AP and Dillon 750 on my bench separated by a Lee single stage
2. The 750 was replaced to make room for a FA X-10
3. When the X-10 turned into vaporware, I added the Pro 6000
4. Mark 7 dropped the price on their Apex -10 ~$1k, I picked one up

I now reload 9mm on the Apex-10, .45ACP on the Pro 6000, and .38Spl on the LNL (assisted by the Lee APP)

 

[GW Staar]

That's a pretty good description of the state of things. You must have noticed that I didn't sing the accolades of the RCBS entry, even though I love mine. I won't sugar coat it..... RCBS didn't finish the job thanks to their conglomerate task masters who controlled the purse strings.....and Vista people aren't gun people, they are profiteers. Now that RCBS was bought by Hodgdon, I think there's hope for the press and for RCBS. The basics are there......the quality construction is there.....the post introduction finesse is not. IMO the post introduction finesse of the Lyman X-10 isn't there yet either. Can't speak for the Dillon 1100......never seen one and at that price won't ever see one. Nor can I speak for the Apex 10.

That said, the seven stations of the PC7 is flat addictive, and I'm glad I have it even though I had to supply the final "finesse" myself. Much thanks to Jmorris introducing me to the 3d printing technology. That's why I steered you to Lee's cheaper entry......and suggested you save some of that introductory money towards a tool (3D printing) that can continue to give back for years.

The Lee 6 Pack Pro surprises everyone who buys one. A fraction of the price and way lighter in weight, and still gets the job done. Is it perfect? Well Lee doesn't build electric collators for their bullet and case feeders......yet. And the primer system works if you can have the patience to learn how best to use it. But I think that's the same for RCBS, Hornady, and Dillon too. Mark 7 Apex-10 has an optional vibrating primer system that looks very interesting.....for more money of course. But I'm thinking the 6 Pack Pro's system could do the same thing by adding some kind of vibrator.....and they probably will, if LiveLife and the rest of us suggest it

 

[Mike P Wagner]

You left out the Mark 7 Apex-10...which is very comparable in price to the Dillon, but a much nicer (engineered) machine

While you can get caliber conversion kits for the 10-station (Mark 7 and FA) and the 8-station (Dillon), they really aren't designed to be easily converted over between calibers...although I do have a friend who has an Apex-10 and 2 extra tool heads


If that's really all you need, the Lee Pro 6000 would meet all your needs with it's 6 stations...as long as you don't mind priming. expanding, and dropping powder all at the same station.

Just so you know that I'm not giving empty opinions with built-in bias:
1. I used to have a Hornady LNL AP and Dillon 750 on my bench separated by a Lee single stage
2. The 750 was replaced to make room for a FA X-10
3. When the X-10 turned into vaporware, I added the Pro 6000
4. Mark 7 dropped the price on their Apex -10 ~$1k, I picked one up

I now reload 9mm on the Apex-10, .45ACP on the Pro 6000, and .38Spl on the LNL (assisted by the Lee APP)

That's fair - the Mark 7 Apex-10 is as far out of my league as the Dillon RL 1100.

I only mentioned the RL 1000 because so many people had mentioned the XL 750 - and sort of glossed over the fact that they were comparing a 5 station press with a 10 station press - the X-10.

But you are correct - if I were looking for a press in the $2500 range, I would be looking at both the Apex 10 and the RL 1100.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Repeat after me: "Hello everyone, I'm a reloader and I have a problem."

Yes. He doesn’t have the right firing pin exploder to empty his reloads so he can reload them again. That’s a terrible thing.