Another 10mm question

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Bandit01

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90% of all of my posts are 10mm related because in my opinion--it's the best damn caliber in the world.
Anyway, I'm thinking of buying a cheap (price wise) 10mm that I can experiment with. I have a Glock 20 and I just purchased a Colt Delta Elite (that's something that I want to give to my son (once I have a son that is)). I don't like that Witness 10mm (looks is important to me). I'm thinking more about the old S&W 1066. It looks exactly like my S&W 4516 (.45). Believe it or not but that's the best .45 that I've ever owned (I've only owned 3). If the 1066 is performance wise like the 4516 then I'm sold. Only problem is, in 10mm talk, I never hear anyone talking about the 1066. Why is this? What (if any) are the problems with it. I've seen it for under $500, which is cool.

Your thoughts?
 
S&W 10 mm

I am not sure about the model number, but I had a full size stainless S&W self loader in 10 mm. It was a single stacker. Biggest problem I had with it was the front sight being the wrong height. I heard of others having the same problem. If I remember corrrectly it shot too high with the rear sight screwed all the way down. Other wise it didn't give me any trouble. With the right front sight on it, it would be a nice item.
 
After much review I chose a European American Armory Witness in 10mm as my experiment gun.

I have managed to blow it up once, EAA repaired it, and it is still going strong.

I am trying to buy a 10mm 6" longslide and barrel assembly from EAA but so far no luck.

The gun shoots well, is controllable, and reliable.
It would make a good plaything for you I think.
 
Congrats on the wittness. I am with you in that I believe 10mm is the best cartridge. My problem is that I have only one, a SS Delta Elite. I have 3 45 1911's and I'm looking for another 10mm handgun. The Glock's grip is not comfortable for me. I tried a nice 1006 that I am considering. I can't find any EAA's here. There is a new Kimber 10mm but I don't want to spend a grand right now. Maybe I'll just find another Delta.
 
I have the 1006 model and enjoy shooting it. Built like a tank and can handle anything ( found out the hard way).

I picked mine up at a local gunshop for $400.

The trigger isnt the greatest but I'm in the process of working on that issue.

The 1006 isnt hard to find but the 1066 and 1076 are getting harder and harder to find.
 
The one they have here locally(1006) is a little beat and they are asking 499. Maybe I can wheel and deal on it.
 
I have a 1006 and 1076. They are the most overbuilt autoloaders I have ever handled.

The 1006 was produced in the highest numbers, and the 1076 was second highest. Other models were not nearly as "common". There was nothing wrong with them; there just are not that many of them out there. If you see a 1066 now, go ahead and jump on it, as they are getting harder to find.

The 1076 and other 4.25" guns are about the size of most normal "full size" service autos. The 1006 and other 5" guns are huge. Here are mine:

DSC00616.jpg
 
I bought a 1066 in 1990 and never had a problem with it...extremely accurate too. I prefer Delta's though...just personal taste. Say...Hyatt's has a 1006 with adj. sights for 549......why dont you try and get them down some...?....and have you gotten DoubleTap 10mm yet ??
 
Hey paul45 I'm guessing our doubletap ammo came in? :rolleyes: Also bandit looked at 1006 at hyatts looks nice just has usual hyatt markup on it! I tend to agree with paul45 I tend to perfer my 10's in a 1911 frame! My choice delta elite! Have a stainless looking for a blue one now! :evil:
 
Bandit....I volunteer to be your son, if you're giving away Delta's...!...ok , I will go away now..... :evil:
 
I have a 1076 that's a good piece, but I only have so much room or money. (Hint, hint.)

The 1076 doesn't have the best trigger in the world- a good 1911 or N-frame may- but it is very controllable, and size-efficient, at the same time.

John
 
I also love the 10mm. i have a Glock 20 and a Colt Double Eagle. I used to have a S&W 1076 but I had a problem with the gun not feeding ammo. :fire: I have since got rid of it.
 
I think that is the first time I've ever even *heard* of a feeding problem with a smith and wesson ten millimeter. The guys on 10mmtalk say that they will even feed empty cases, though I've never tried it.

I've never had a malf of any kind with either of mine. Toughest pistols I've ever seen.
 
Hey Paul 45, you are funny. Tell you what "son", I shoot at Firepower. If you ever wanna check it out, PM me and we'll meet up there.
 
I share the same love and respect as you do for the 10mm. If I had to chose only one caliber for a semi auto this would be it. I think it is going to be difficult to find a really inexpensive 10mm. I think the 10mm is regaining interest and popularity so prices and availability of used pistols are going up and down. I have owned the Glock, Delta and 1076. My favorite is the 1076 which I still own and carry when hunting, fishing or back packing. It is the most comfortable pistol in this caliber that I have shot. Probably because it is all steel and not light weight, (39 ounces). KY Imports had a stash of 1076's they were selling for a little over $300 but that has dried up. The Winchester 175gr Silver Tip shoots incredibly small groups with my 1076, (-2"@25yds). I quit trying to hand load a more accurate carry load a few years ago after several attempts. Good Luck on the Quest
 
I love my 10mm so much I had to get another. I went to the gun show today and traded a colt compact for a witness compact plus some cash. Took it to the range today and put 100 rounds of doubletap through it. All and all it was a very fun gun to shoot. The problem was when I got home to clean it. I found a crack in the receiver(recoil spring housing?) That kind of depressed me. Brand new and off to the factory for warranty replacement. Wish I could find another Delta for 300 bucks!!!
 
I have a 1066. I bought it at my local gun emporium. The original owner, a regular customer had only fired one mag through it. It's been to the range one time with me and is an excellent shooter. I shot 20 rounds of Norma 180's? through it. Recoil was non-existent. I put some Hogue rubber grips on it. I like those better. Good luck with your search.

J Scott
 
There are several 10mm 1911s - but to me it just seems silly to have a single-stack 10. I like my Razorback, but I like my Megastar better. (Those are MORE overbuilt than the 1006 family, not too expensive when they do show up, but regrettably rare.) You'll find a number of items discussed (or even with subforums) on 10mmtalk.

One nice option with 10mm is to get a 9x25 drop-in barrel for it - so one consideration is to get a gun for which BarSto makes the 9x25 barrel. (Glock and 1911 are two.)

There were some pretty cheap Glock 20s on cdnninvestments.com last I checked - you might look there.

Best caliber, check!
 
Bandit01,

Yes, the 10xx series of S&W 10mm handguns are nice, IMO. The 10xx series basically came in two frame sizes, the full size based upon the 1006 and the compact of the 1066/1076/1086. All were available in DA/SA with the standard slide mounted safety/decocking lever, the frame mounted a la Sig type decocker and the DAO version. Unfortunately there never was a subcompact version released, which would've been the cousin to the 4516. There was a prototype 1016, though it was never placed into production(darn!).

There are a number of sites that are either 10mm dedicated or have a very active 10mm following involved within the site. Here are a few:

http://10mmtalk.com/
http://p197.ezboard.com/bnordicg3kscommunity
http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=38
http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mm.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~gnappi/10mm-gun.htm

Once of the sites is a bit dated. The 10 Ring over on Glock Talk is very active and holds a wealth of info for those looking for such. BTW, welcome to the 10mm community!


ttbadboy,

Nice looking pair of S&W 10'ers!


Onmilo,

It's good to hear that at least a few have gotten a Tanfoglio Witness that actually works. I'll let it go at that.
 
The smith 10mm's came in two SLIDE sizes, not frame sizes. I am not sure if the longer & shorter slides are interchangable (I believe they are) but the frame and specifically grip area is the same size. The 1006 is a longer slide length than the 1066 but both have SLIDE mounted safety/decockers. The 1076 has a frame mounted decocker a la Sig and is more common than the longer 1026. 1086 was the shorter slide DAO and the 1046 was the longer and much more rare variant. There is also rumor that a 1016 was built in extremely small numbers but I have never seen a photo of an actual 1016 so I call it rumor until I see otherwise.

The S&W 10mm autos are nice, solid guns, but I think that the 10mm in a 1911 is ideal just for the nice trigger and because I like to build them :) I have a 1076 but I actually prefer the 1006 and would probably like the 1066 even better but never bought one. I like the idea of a frame decocker but it limits grip options as wood grips would have a very thin area over the decocker that I feel would be prone to cracking. Although I am going to mod some Hogue wood grips and find out for sure.

My 1076 shoots about 2.5" groups at 25 yards and I think that is good for a factory autopistol. I expect my SVI 2011 10mm to shoot about half that when I am done building it.

Also, the Smiths have three grip options: curved backstrap, straight backstrap & palmswell. I hear the palmswell are nice but I have never tried them. I prefer the straight grip and shoot about 1" to 2" better with the straight. All three grip types are available direct from Smith & Wesson and from Gun Parts Corporation.

I would give the S&W 10mm Autos a BUY recommendation, and a DEFINITE BUY if you already like the S&W 3rd Gen Autopistols.
 
I would say that the frames are similarly sized, but not exactly the same. The grips are not interchangable. The 1006 frame might be a little longer... I'd have to pull them out to check.

I have Hogues on the 1006, and much prefer them to the straight backstrap. Factory palmswells on the 1076, and I like those a lot.

10mm in 1911s makes me nervous, as they were designed for .45acp of course. If going from 9mm to .40 in guns designed for 9mm causes problems (if not correctly redesigned), then going from .45 to 10mm, essentially doubling the power production, has got to be asking for issues. Most pistols designed for 10mm from the ground up seem to use 17-18lb factory springs, while 10mm 1911's are often running mid 20's from the factory. Does this mean that the lockup originally designed for .45 isn't really ideal for 10mm? I don't know, but between that and the old frame cracking issues, I've always been somewhat suspicious.
 
10mm in 1911s makes me nervous, as they were designed for .45acp of course. If going from 9mm to .40 in guns designed for 9mm causes problems (if not correctly redesigned), then going from .45 to 10mm, essentially doubling the power production, has got to be asking for issues. Most pistols designed for 10mm from the ground up seem to use 17-18lb factory springs, while 10mm 1911's are often running mid 20's from the factory. Does this mean that the lockup originally designed for .45 isn't really ideal for 10mm? I don't know, but between that and the old frame cracking issues, I've always been somewhat suspicious.
Click to expand...

Alot of bogus info out there about 10mm 1911s. Enough that I made a whole web site about it. :D

Delta frames didn't crack because the 1911 frame can't handle 10mm, they cracked because of a specific issue with the geometry of the frame in the area above the slide stop hole (not the pin hole, the square hole where the slide stop actually engages the magazine follower to lock the slide) that caused it to be prone to stress cracks. The problem went away when Colt milled away a bit of the frame rail above the slide stop hole. Incidentally, these frame cracks also showed up in .45 ACP 1911s, just at a lower rate. That's why several makers mill out that part of the slide on ALL their frames, regardless of caliber.

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/10tech.html
 
1911's were designed for the .45 ACP alright. The basic design is unchanged since 1911, but the materials have been greatly improved. You don't have to be a metallurgist to see that the slides and frames are much tougher these days.

This is what makes possible the .45 Super and the .460 Rowland, and yes, the 10mm.

Not that the early guns were weak, they were thoroughly adequate for standard .45 230 grain hardball. The new guns are thoroughly adequate for 10mm.

One good idea is to go back to the original design firing pin stop, with the small radius. This slows down slide velocity tremendously. It is the best $15 I ever spent on a Delta Elite. Why Colt engineers neglected this simple improvement when they were drawing up the Delta Elite, I will never know.
 
10 mm vs 45 ACP in pistol design

The 10 mm puts a lot more stress on a pistol than the 45 ACP. In talking with an engineer at Ruger I asked if there was any chance they would chamber the 10 mm in there 45 ACP. He said a 10 mm would require a complete new platform design because it put so much more stress on the pistol. This surprised me because the Ruger looks like a pretty solid hunk of pistol. It may be that the alloy frame will not take as much pounding as a steel frame. Although it's relly the recoil spring that's supposed to absorb most of the slide recoil, not the slide stop.

All this says nothing about whether a 1911 clone is strong enough to handle the 10 mm, but you would have to expect less milage that with the 45 ACP.
 
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