another bear story

[Cee Zee]

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/...lowing-Numerous-Bear-Sightings-307169821.html

Bears are becoming quite a problem in SE Ohio where my house is and in the region as a whole. Of course my interest is in the best type of weapon to make sure you aren't on the bear's menu. I don't expect that in any way but I don't expect to be facing armed robberies either but that happened twice. It can happen and if I learned anything from playing victim while people with guns threatened me it's that I wanted my own gun just in case.

In the case of the local bears I carry my .44 magnum if I intend to be walking or otherwise busy with my hands but close to the house I'll have a 12 ga. handy. I realize these are black bears and that it doesn't take a Brenneke Black Magic slug to knock one down but better safe than sorry. I've seen bears north of 400 lbs. not locally but in the region. I have heard of people actually hunting bears with a .45 and for a long time I counted on one for bear protection. But that was before I pretty much came into a .44 mag just helping out my brother. I don't want to turn loose of it now. Any thoughts on how small a person can go to deal with black bears? I carry a .40 now and I'd love to hear that the caliber is enough to deal with black bears.

I know some thought it was pretty much a joke to even think about bears in Ohio. After all it isn't Montana and there are no brown bears here. But still attacks have been on the rise and with the population of bears increasing quickly we can expect to see more problems. Mostly I try to protect my pets around the house. I've had one cat killed by a bear already.

Anyway I don't mean to stir up any problems or anything like that. I'm just repeating pretty much what I hear on the news and what I see with my own eyes. Black bears aren't nearly as dangerous as brown bears but they are dangerous. And I've been threatened by them several times. I'm sure it was a bluff (they didn't attack) but you never know. People in the area should at least be aware that the bears are out there. I used to ride my ATV in that national forest many hours a week. I live within 2.5 miles of it. And there plenty of places to get bears coming in from the forest to where my house is. This is becoming a bigger issue and people should be aware in the whole region. I don't plan on hunting bears. They do have a bear season in Kentucky I believe and my house is only half a mile from KY. But my health keeps me from doing much hunting of any kind these days. I miss that part of my life a lot but that's what happens when you get old.

Have a good day people.

 

[49north]

I live on a mountain in a forest in BFE and I can tell you that bears are extremely dangerous.
But..cows are more dangerous and people are the most dangerous critters out there..

 

[joem1945]

Black bear reports with pics a few miles from the gun club where I shoot. Club also has mountain lion or two on it's property. I've seen the tracks and it isn't a small kitty either. Manager of the place rides around with a rifle and pistol.

 

[hso]

Gauging by the number of threads we see on this topic it is pretty clear that a lot of people are terrified of bears. Having spent a lot of time hiking and backpacking in their territory and seeing them investigate our's I'm careful and cautious about them, but made the effort to try to understand their behaviors so I could keep myself and friends with me from getting crossways with them. Right behind having good sense, OC spray is the best bear protection.

We have a running thread on OC sprays with good discussion on bear spray over in the NonFirearms Weapons forum that may prove useful for some folks.

Which OC spray is best? One designed for use against bears (that little keychain "Lady Defender" ain't it)!

Backpacker magazine had a good article a while back and here's their summary.

How To Pick The Right Spray
When you walk into an outfitter shop armed with bear-spray questions, you take your chances. The guy behind the counter may truly know his stuff, or he could be the store’s wind-surfing expert. So we thought it best to consult some credible sources for information about choosing and using pepper spray:

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee: Formed in 1983 to coordinate grizzly bear recovery in the United States, it includes representation from all federal land management agencies as well as members from state agencies in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, and Washington, plus Canada.

Tom Smith, Ph.D.: A research wildlife ecologist with the U.S. Geological Survey Alaska Biological Science Center in Anchorage, Alaska, Dr. Smith has extensively tested and researched bear sprays.

U. S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): The EPA oversees the registration of all bear sprays in the United States.

Based on recommendations from these three sources, look for a bear spray that:

Is labeled “for deterring attacks by bears.” Avoid products labeled for use against humans because they won’t have the firepower you need.

Contains 1 to 2 percent capsaicin and related capsaicinoids, with a net weight of at least 225 grams or 7.9 ounces-this is considered the minimum effective size.

Is derived from oleoresin of capsicum (OC), the only currently EPA-approved active ingredient.

Is registered with the EPA to ensure compliance with standards for active ingredients and performance.

Delivers a shotgun-cloud pattern. Less-expensive, less-effective sprays often come out in a stream, rather than in a cloud pattern that you don’t have to aim as exactly. All EPA-registered sprays have a cloud pattern.

Hits the target at a minimum range of 25 feet, which is the distance at which you should fire if a bear is charging. (See “The Great Bear Spray Shoot-Out” on page 67.)

Has at least 6 seconds total spray time, as indicated on the label. This allows you multiple short bursts of spray if needed for a single persistent bear, or for multiple encounters on a long trip.

Is well within its expiration date. Replace unused bear spray canisters every 3 years to ensure against depressurization or degradation of contents. Use the old canister for practice sessions at home. You can also weigh the can on a postal scale when new, then at the beginning of each season. Replace the can when the weight drops below 75 percent of its original weight.

 

[g.willikers]

Cee Zee,
Living in Ohio, you probably remember the incident of the guy with the private zoo near Zanesville who turned all his animals loose.
Local deputies were hunting them down all night.
One of the critters was a black bear that chased one of the deputies around his car.
All he had was his 9mm sidearm, and it did the job.
The deputy, not the bear.
But your 44 magnum does sound like a better choice, preferably with suitable hunting rounds.

 

[Robert]

My 70 year old mother chases them off her porch by banging two pots together. Or she sips coffee and watches them destroy the bird feeder and refills it once they are gone. They are black bears, not Utah Raptors...

In all the years I have camped, hiked and simply been in bear country I have never had one negative experiences with bears. Hell I even walked up on a sleeping bear and woke him up. He looked at me, grunted and I slowly backed away and lived to tell.

 

[g.willikers]

It's not the sleeping bears that are dangerous, it's the wide awake ones.

 

[Mainsail]

In the case of the local bears I carry my .44 magnum....

I'd worry about second-guessing myself as soon as I drew that gun out of the holster:

"Hmmm, that's not a particularly big bear, and if I shoot it with this .44 I'll likely be permanently deaf. What to do.....what to do.... Should I shoot or take my mauling like a man?"

 

[Elkins45]

I have a friend who lives in eastern Kentucky. He tells me that bears are becoming such a problem the local school district trains kids on how to behave when they're waiting for the bus to avoid bear attacks.

 

[g.willikers]

The kids could take one of the bears along for show and tell.
Ought to at least get them a day of school canceled.

 

[Cee Zee]

Club also has mountain lion or two on it's property. I've seen the tracks and it isn't a small kitty either.

I've seen tracks in the national forest too and they're too big to be a bobcat. I saw a bobcat at our gun club too. And my neighbor trapped a bobcat on the hill behind my house.

But it's the bears that have the exploding population. For every story you see of someone who saw a bear near town those of us in the real country can point to a dozen sightings. As for being scared of them they really don't scare me at all. I just take precautions like I would for a lot of things. I was carrying my .45 in the forest a long time before the bears invaded. I know some people are scared of them but they do scare off fairly easy. I don't know if anyone noticed the advice on dealing with bears on that web page. It was beside the main story. They talked about how if you were so close to a bear that you scared it away from a food source then "you" were too close. Well the bears come into my yard 15 foot from my house and eat dog food. Or they did when I had my dog tied up. I let him run loose now for obvious reasons. He chased 2 bears up the hill after they had killed one of our cats. But at least it was only one cat that got it. I also stepped out of my shop and scared a bear that had it's head down in my neighbor's grain barrel. That's prime bear food and he did NOT want to leave. That was my first bear encounter. He had me cornered essentially and he was only about 25 yards away from me and staring right at me. I stepped back into the shop and grabbed some firecrackers I had been saving for any possible skunk sightings. I lit a whole pack of them and threw them toward the bear. That certainly got his attention. He backed off after that. Still it showed me that sometimes they will stand up to you. It doesn't mean you have to shoot them. I seriously doubt I will ever shoot a bear. But that bear was ticked off at me and fighting over a food source is typical bear behavior. I wanted no part of it. Combine that with the way they act when I cook out and you'll understand why I keep a gun handy. I like having the bears there. I just want to make sure I'm the one at the top of the food chain.

I don't really call my experiences with bears a negative thing. I never felt like I was about to be attacked but I did feel like I was going to be hassled by a bear that was being fed by people in a park. I was too far from the car and didn't have a gun. So my experiences have been border line. A true negative experience could be a very bad thing. Again I just want to ensure I have the upper hand or at least do all I can to keep the upper hand. I'm not planning on moving because of the bears or anythnig. Again I like having them around. I just need for them to know the rules. No killing my critters and no stealing my steaks off the grill.

 

[X-Rap]

Most of us will agree that when we venture into bear country there are inherent considerations that need to be made but we don't see the same when they invade what we perceive as our space.
For some reason bears and people seem to be interfacing at increased rates, drought, sprawl, population (people as well as bears),and hunting regulations are all playing a part.
When you live with them instead of just visitinging it does require a different approach and that means adjusting your lifestyle so you are not as welcome to over-ranging bears.

Don't feed the bears, much of the reason bears come to town or your yard is because you leave trash, ripe fruit on the ground or trees, doors open to areas where there are refrigerators or freezers, livestock feed. Don't be a part of making problem bears.

Dogs, bears are about the only wild animal I would condone dogs chasing and harassing outside of a hunting activity, it's all about making them feel unwelcome.

Situational awareness, we hear it all the time in the context of personal defense against other people but the same needs to be said about wild animals. You don't want to walk out into your shed where your deep freeze is and surprise a bear that just devoured all your frozen berries and half your meat supply. Same goes for your kids, this is my biggest concern having grandchildren now.

Bears and to some degree cats seem to have less fear of us humans and in my opinion in my state this is based as a result of regulations imposed by the voters that took some important management tools from the wildlife managers.

Robert, you should have your mother read this story http://www.denverpost.com/technology/ci_13023974

Western Colorado has a huge bear problem and it's right in the towns not all in the country, I don't read all the news from everywhere but I'd say CO in general may be one of the worst at least in the lower 48. Living in bear country off and on all my life I can say personally that the last 20 years has seen a constant uptick of bear interaction be it at home or in the wild. Years ago it was an event to catch a glimpse of a bear and now it's almost expected to see at least one when your out in likely habitat.

 

[Jackal]

When I'm out in the woods, I leave the gun at home and pack a medium can of UDAP. We have black bear and big cats around here, a good spray is more effective than a gun.

 

[taliv]

i really want to wrestle a bear. i think i could take one in the 200-300 lb range. i bet they have a glass jaw and one good uppercut... there have been a few spottings around here. one was hit by a car last year in town. maybe i could attract some if i switched to steak sauce instead of deodorant

 

[Cee Zee]

i really want to wrestle a bear. i think i could take one in the 200-300 lb range

Hey an idiot friend of mine bought a black bear cub at the same place that crazy loon in Ohio bought his animals - you remember that guy - he had lions, brown bears, etc. etc. and they all got loose one day. The sheriff's department had to kill a bunch of them. At that time there were no laws in Ohio concerning exotic pets and that guy took it serious. I've known people similar to him I know a guy who had a mountain lion he treated like a kitty. He had his own private zoo and charged people a whole dollar to see it. That guy was pretty much nuts too.

Anyway the bear cubs were a huge handful. It seems they always wanted to play. They weren't mean but wow could they ever cause some damage. The guy kept them about a week before he got rid of them somehow. But I'm sure anyone from my area can tell you about Trade Days in Lucasville Ohio and how you could buy pretty much anything there until that nut turned all those animals loose. The state finally made it illegal to own such things. It's a good thing too. A guy that lived maybe 2 miles from my house had African lions that were always getting out and roaming he neighborhood.

What a world. But I'll buy a ticket if you want to wrestle a bear. I'll even pay a bounty of $20 if you can last 5 minutes. Seriously they are tough critters.

 

[taliv]

they're not that tough. they're made out of the same stuff we are, and they're mostly fur. they do smell really bad though.
bears are suckers for a hip fake too. then quick backhand and plant one on their chin... say good night boo boo

 

[hso]

As for being scared of them they really don't scare me at all.

Your posts on them are frequent enough and consistently alarmist that most readers would assume otherwise.

 

[Jeff White]

We used to encounter black bears quite frequently while training at Camp Ripley, MN. Everyone just kept their distance and waited until they moved away. Somewhere I've got a picture of a rucksack (not mine) that was shredded by a bear looking for the pogey bait (I guess we should say bear bait ) that was in it. No one was ever attacked or injured by one and we only had 5.56 and 7.62 blanks and maybe a hand grenade or artillery simulator for self defense.

I have a friend that lives nearby who is licensed to keep black bears. He's been injured a couple times, they are nothing to mess around with, but he still exhibits them.

I'm not saying they are harmless, because they clearly aren't, but in my experience if you give their space, they will just move on.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

At the heart of the OP was the question

Any thoughts on how small a person can go to deal with black bears? I carry a .40 now and I'd love to hear that the caliber is enough to deal with black bears.

For black bears, I think you are fine with a 40 cal, though I'd be far more inclined to carry the 44. Use hard casts if you can. Doubt you'll ever need it though. Black bears can be dangerous if you blunder into each other by accident, and there's always the chance of having a sick or starving one wander your way, but they typically scare pretty easily. Show them it's your yard and keep your garbage cans secure and I bet you won't have any issues. Removing any temptation is the best way to keep them away.

 

[B2Tall]

I go camping and/or offroad riding several times a year here in S. Florida and have had a bear encounter. The rangers down here tell me they've tagged more than one 500-ponder, although the one I encountered was probably only half that size. Dangerous enough in my book. I carry my .357 loaded with FMJs when out in the wilderness.

Any large animal can become very dangerous. We also have gators down here. Most are smaller (5-6') but we have encountered some monsters from time to time. Some nasty wild boar/pigs too. Had an encounter with a large, agitated razorback one time. Fortunately there was a cattle fence between us otherwise I'm sure it would have been more of a "close encounter".

 

[Sunray]

"...think I could take one..." Hard to hold your intestines off the ground while wrestlin' Yogi. That 200 to 300 pounds is solid muscle too.
Bears aren't the problem. People moving into the bush where Yogi and Cindy live is the problem.
"...you aren't on the bear's menu..." You aren't and never will be.
"...a .40..." Useless. No handgun will stop anything in its tracks anyway. Yogi can run at 35 MPH when he's in a hurry. That's under 6 seconds for 100 yards. There's no way in Hades you'll ever be fast enough.
If it's Kitty, he comes from above and behind. You're fornicated.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I like having a firearms in the woods. The biggest handgun caliber I have is a 45 and I'm comfortable with my skill level. Some day I may get a 44 magnum. I would practice with it a lot with. 44 specials and some 44 magnum. If I felt comfortable with the 44 magnum then that is what I would bring.

Sine you have 45, 44, and 40 I'd say you need to be honest with yourself on your skill and comfort and confidence with all of these with whatever level of practice you will realistically do. You won't need the firearm 99.99% of the time you encounter a black bear. However when you need it, you will need it. Then, you will need something where you can get good shots. Misses may be loud and scare the bear but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[coloradokevin]

Personally, black bears aren't real high on the list of animals that concern me. I grew up in Ohio, and used to hike in bear country in WV a lot. Back then reports of bears in SE Ohio were more sporadic, but it sounds like more of them have been moving up that way (as the OP said). I live in Colorado now, and bears are pretty easy to find in our mountains.

Stopping a black bear isn't nearly as difficult as stopping a grizzly. These bears also tend to be less aggressive, and are generally happy enough to avoid encounters with people. A .44 Magnum should be sufficient for your purposes, and I've certainly carried less in the past!

I've hiked and/or lived in bear territory for a good 25 years now, and regularly encounter black bear. I once stumbled upon one in thick rhododendron (WV), and was WAY too close to him for my comfort. The bear seemed unimpressed, but I cautiously exited the encounter without issue. Mountain lions, rattlesnakes, and moose are all more dangerous in my mind (though you probably won't see moose or mountain lions in southern Ohio anytime soon).

 

[hso]

Wild boar are far more aggressive than black bears and about the top of the list for what I've encountered in the mountains I would have rather not. Having come within a dozen feet of an adult black bear on more than one occasion on the trail I've simply given them the right of way and they've been interested in getting out of my vicinity.

OTOH, I've wished for something capable of dropping a boar on more than one occasion (but never actually had a problem in my encounters with them). Perhaps I needant be as concerned about them as I was.

 

[230RN]

Any large animal can become very dangerous.

Or small ones. We had a lady in this building who used to put out a food dish for the coyotes. She was trying to coax them in closer and closer to her back door by moving it a little bit closer every couple of days or so. I gently mentioned to her that I didn't think that was such a good idea. "Aw, but they're so cute," she said.

One day I guess she forgot to move it out of the way and I ran over her food dish by accident, flattening it. I swearta gawd. Honestly, I didn't see it there. I was backing into my spot and the way things are set up, it was on the right side of my car. I've got to pull straight in a couple of spots over, then back up past a those couple of spots to park the way I like to, front facing out.

She hit the ceiling over that.

But jeeze, trying to tempt the coyores closer and closer to your door?

I love animals, but I'm not totally whacko over them.