Another disappointing day w/S&W Shield 45

[Charlie Martinez]

Second day at the range with my S&W Shield 45 and another disappointing performance. It will not engage the slide fully forward during the round chambering process off and on especially with reloaded hard cast lead ammunition that works perfectly in my 1911's. The problem is less common but not completely solved with use of copper jacketed bullets
I am very satisfied with all of the pistol's other attributes; the trigger is good, accuracy and ergonomics are very good but reliability is terrible. The magazines are a bear to load but I can live with that at least until they soften up a bit with use.
I will be calling Smith & Wesson first thing on Monday to see what they can do to help but I expected better from a brand new Smith & Wesson product.

 

[Cornhusker77]

I think mine has a bit of a tight chamber.
Round that feed in some others are a bit tight in the Shield.
That being said, I've not had any issues with factory loads, just reloads, mostly flat points

 

[Charlie Martinez]

I've not had any issues with factory loads,

I think you are correct, factory ammo is about all it will shoot well which is disappointing for me because I bought the Shield in 45 caliber so I could practice with reloads and avoid costly factory ammo. If I had known that all it would shoot well was factory ammo I would have bought a 9 mm Shield instead. Maybe things will loosen up a bit with continued usage.
I will be discussing this with Smith & Wesson next week.

 

[chicharrones]

Deleted. Clearly a reloader’s question now, of which I have no experience dealing with.

 

[JR24]

I’ve had guns, namely Gen 5 Glocks, that don’t like some of the hard cast loads, loaded longer.

Perhaps a RN projectile or work on finding a load to reduce OAL might help.

 

[trackskippy]

I would think if you tweaked your reloads a tad, they would probably work, and since they already work in your other guns, will still work in them. Worst case, you might have to switch bullet types, but Id try shortening the OAL a bit first.

I went through that when I switched over to Glocks. What worked fine in all my other 9mm's, wouldnt cycle my Glocks. I just bumped things up until the reliability was there, and they still work fine in everything else.

 

[zaitcev]

Second day at the range with my S&W Shield 45 and another disappointing performance. It will not engage the slide fully forward during the round chambering process off and on especially with reloaded hard cast lead ammunition that works perfectly in my 1911's.

Forget the Shield, I'd be concerned that the 1911s have gone out of headspace. It is not a good thing that they consume longer cases.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cle...go--no-go-headspace-gauge-sets/?sku=184000041

 

[Tallball]

My 45acp Shield is solid. Hope you get yours straightened out.

 

[koz4guns]

I shot almost exclusively 185 gr SWC reloads in my Shield 45ACP and never a problem.

What bullets are you using, seating depth, crimp?

Some people get all hung up on only removing the bell on the case when they crimp but after shooting bullseye for years I have learned you can crimp a 45 acp down as low as .463 with no problem, I usually crimp to .465 and it works in all of my 45’s

 

[Charlie Martinez]

Forget the Shield, I'd be concerned that the 1911s have gone out of headspace. It is not a good thing that they consume longer cases.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cle...go--no-go-headspace-gauge-sets/?sku=184000041

I measured random samples of shot cases (I use to reload) to obtain average measurements of reloads vs. factory loads and fired cases vs. new, unfired cases. The results were as follows:
Empty cases:
Case diameter (outer): New (unfired): 0.461" Fired: 0.462"
Rim diameter: New : 0.469" Fired: 0.469"
Case length: New: 0.884" Fired: 0.884"

Loaded ammo:
Case width: Factory (American Eagle 230 grain hardball): 0.462 Reloaded (200 grain LSWC): 0.466
Rim diameter: Factory: 0.468" Reloads: 0.468"
Case length: Factory: 0.912" Reloaded: 0.912"
Cartridge overall lengths: Factory: 1.2544" Reloaded: 1.1841"

According to my Speer reloading manual the 45 ACP case dimensions are:
Case length: 0.898"
Case diameter: Case: 0.473
Rim diameter: 0.480"
Case length: 0.898"

Assuming that the Speer manual is giving us maximum dimensions all of my reloaded ammo is within the acceptable limits.

 

[Charlie Martinez]

What bullets are you using, seating depth, crimp?

My reloads include:
185 gr. LSWC: crimp: 0.464" overall length: 1.185"
200 gr. LSWC: crimp: 0.464" overall length: 1.185"
225 gr. LRN: crimp: 0.468" overall length: 1.213"
225 gr. JHP: crimp: 0.4645" overall length: 1.172"

 

[koz4guns]

Empty cases:
Case diameter (outer): New (unfired): 0.461" Fired: 0.462"
Rim diameter: New : 0.469" Fired: 0.469"
Case length: New: 0.884" Fired: 0.884

Its strange that you measured your fired cases at .462 mine all measure around .472. are you sure about those measurements?

 

[Charlie Martinez]

I disassembled the pistol and dropped a few reloads into the barrel chamber. They stop about 1 to 2 mm short of fully entering the chamber. Factory ammo easily drops all the way in w/o any problems. I can force the reloads all the way in but they are then difficult to extract. It appears that the case diameter at the base of my reloads is too wide? How can I fix this at the reloading press? Is it at the final seating/crimping stage?

 

[Charlie Martinez]

Its strange that you measured your fired cases at .462 mine all measure around .472. are you sure about those measurements?

Yes you are right. Mine are also 0.472"

 

[koz4guns]

You should take a sharpie to the cases that don’t drop all of the way in the chamber to see where they are tight.
I would bet you will need to size your cases more or apply a tighter crimp.

 

[buddyd157]

Second day at the range with my S&W Shield 45 and another disappointing performance. It will not engage the slide fully forward during the round chambering process off and on especially with reloaded hard cast lead ammunition that works perfectly in my 1911's. The problem is less common but not completely solved with use of copper jacketed bullets
I am very satisfied with all of the pistol's other attributes; the trigger is good, accuracy and ergonomics are very good but reliability is terrible. The magazines are a bear to load but I can live with that at least until they soften up a bit with use.
I will be calling Smith & Wesson first thing on Monday to see what they can do to help but I expected better from a brand new Smith & Wesson product.

i find this interesting. i have the same gun, only a few weeks old and like 250 rounds thru it.

of those 250 rounds, 100 are my own reloaded, round ball cast bullets. (i buy the cast bullets from a LGS)

the rest, (150 rounds) are S&B, and Remington UMC.

never an issue with mine.

for loading ALL of my magazines, of any caliber, i use the Uplula.

i think the gun is fantastic.

my OAL for my reloads is about 1.230 to 1.249, clearly a tad bit shorter than factory, but i had to set them this way for the "ogive?" measurement to plunk into either any 45 barrel or my Lyman gauge block.

this measurement works for me, in ALL my 45's.

 

[5-SHOTS]

I disassembled the pistol and dropped a few reloads into the barrel chamber. They stop about 1 to 2 mm short of fully entering the chamber. Factory ammo easily drops all the way in w/o any problems. I can force the reloads all the way in but they are then difficult to extract. It appears that the case diameter at the base of my reloads is too wide? How can I fix this at the reloading press? Is it at the final seating/crimping stage?

Maybe with a .45ACP factory crimp die?

But looks like the chamber is too tight. I don't know if it can be cured by a gunsmith. Or an aftermarket (no match grade) barrel. Or a trip to S&W.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I’ve got a Shield Gen1 in .45. I have only fed it reloads, which use either 230gr FMJ or plated round nose bullets. I’ve never had an issue. Seeing how factory ammo works fine, I would investigate your reloads further, which it seems like you’re already doing.

With guns, I don’t fault them if they run factory ammo, but have issues with reloads. As much as I like to think I reload well, I have found that usually when a gun is struggling with my reloads it is usually something that I need to tweak. I’ve had loads that were ever so slightly too long (like .001 too long) that they wouldn’t fit into the magazine of one of my guns, but worked fine in others. I’ve had other times in which my reloads were slightly underpowered to the extent that on a new gun with a tight recoil spring that it took more stout loads to ensure full reliability.

My point is that if the gun works with factory ammo, but isn’t happy with your reloads, don’t give up on the gun. It’s definitely a balancing act trying to reload accurate ammo, but also ammo that functions reliably in every firearm.

 

[Zygodactyl]

This is a common problem with .45 reloads. You have to tailor you OAL and crimp to your chamber. Some bullet shapes engage the rifling before fully seated. I was having a similar problem with my 1911. I cured it by seating the round a little deeper. Use your barrel for a gauge.

 

[Charlie Martinez]

After shooting a few rounds with it there's no way I'm giving up on this little gun and I'm determined to make things work. Fortunately I believe I found the issue although I will not be able to confirm until I visit the range again.
Reading my reloading manual I learned that full re-sizing is not necessary if the brass is always shot with the same gun. Obviously my used brass was not shot out of the S&W so I adjusted my re-sizing die for fuller length re-sizing and reloaded a few test rounds with 200 grain LSWC, 185 Grain LSWC and 225 jacketed hollow points. The reloaded jacketed bullets and the 200 grain LSWC now seem to cycle well. The 185 grain SWC still won't probably because they are too short. Nevertheless this is a great improvement. If I can get the 200 grain SWC to shoot I will be very pleased because I have a lot of them. I am not giving up on the 185 grainers yet. I think maybe they will cycle OK if I don't seat therm as deep but if they don't it is no big deal because they shoot fine out of my National Match pistol.
I am now almost 100% convinced the entire problem is with my reloads and not with the pistol.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I had issues with my 92 and one Walther with cast. The Lee factory crimp die solved it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Reading my reloading manual I learned that full re-sizing is not necessary if the brass is always shot with the same gun. Obviously my used brass was not shot out of the S&W so I adjusted my re-sizing die for fuller length re-sizin

I have not thought that partial or neck sizing applied to anything but bolt and single shot rifles, maybe revolvers shot with midrange wadcutters.
Does partially sized brass work in your other .45s?

I full length size all handgun cases and sometimes wish for more... which I provide with Undersize sizing dies and the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp. I haven't gone so far as to use the Bulge Buster push-through sizing method... yet.

So not "fuller length" go with FULL length sizing with a carbide die nearly touching the shell holder.

 

[BC17A]

My guess is that your case lengths vary by several thou which gives you inconsistent crimp or your cast bullets are being loaded too long. If you don't separate brass by length then it's a must to set your crimp die for the shortest case length to ensure all the flair/belling is ironed out completely.

My 45 Shield is picky about reloads also but I've managed to dial in all my castings to function reliably, including the Lee 200SWC. Since the Shield has practically no throat, every .452" bullet I load requires a very short OAL compared to factory ammo. The 200SWC will just touch the lands at 1.225" so I load that one down to 1.220". The Lee 228RN touches the lands at 1.185".

One other thing. If the chamber is indeed tighter than most then you could try using only Remington(R-P) brass since it's thinner and improves reliability with tight chambers when using oversized coated or cast bullets.

Don't give up, you'll get there.

 

[WestKentucky]

You found your issue. No plunk means no-go. Do you have any friends who also load 45 to see if it’s one of your dies (full length sizer) not doing its job? Really sounds like tolerance stacking to me. A chamber on the tight side of in and dies on the big side of in makes for a tricky situation. A simple set of tighter does may fix your issue. A polish of your chamber may also do good things for you. There are also some minor tweaks which may turn your no-plunks into plunkers. Without knowing your dies, I don’t know what to suggest other than to try to decap and size separately if you aren’t already. I have seen decappers with expander balls cause issues, but only in bottlenecks, but if your deprime pin bottoms out a smidge before your hitting home with the die then that may be all there is to it… if that fixes it then adjust to where it just barely reliably pushes out primers.

 

[Charlie Martinez]

I have not thought that partial or neck sizing applied to anything but bolt and single shot rifles, maybe revolvers shot with midrange wadcutters.
Does partially sized brass work in your other .45s?
Yes it does.

So not "fuller length" go with FULL length sizing with a carbide die nearly touching the shell holder.

I was unaware that my die was set for partial resizing so I adjusted it for full length re-sizing. That was it.

A polish of your chamber may also do good things for you.
I thought of that but full length re-sizing seems to have been the solution.

As far as the 185 gran SWC I believe they probably will never cycle reliably because the ramp is pretty steep and the bullet is shaped almost like a wadcutter. This pistol is probably not designed for that kind of bullet but maybe shallower seating will prove me wrong.