Another lesson on "people"

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TheeBadOne

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Police Officer Assaulted

A Rochester Police Officer is recovering from injuries after she was attacked Thursday morning.
Police say Officer Susan Koehn responded to a call of a woman screaming and hollering in the 200-block of Mohawk Street, near Carter Street.

Police say the woman approached Koehn in her car, pulled her out, then threw her to the ground and punched her several times. A seven-year-old with the woman also allegedly kicked Officer Koehn.

Other police officers responded to the scene and took the two suspects in custody.

The woman is facing mental hygiene and assault charges. Police have also charged the seven-year-old with assault.

Officer Koehn is under evaluation, her injuries are not serious.

The suspects will be arraigned Friday in city court.

http://www.rnews.com/Story.cfm?ID=15261&rnews_story_type=18
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Another splendid example of the variety of people out there. Even the 7 year old was putting the boots to the Officer (mommy taught him well). When you see someone in "distress", if it's not immediately-right-now-life-threatening, don't approach. Call and let the Cops/EMS deal with them. You never know who/what they are. Take care of you and your family.
 
Not long ago here in Albuquerque, a female officer was responding to a call about a disturbed man and got the snot beat out of her, her gun taken and then shot in the face with it. She survived by a miracle. The nutjob ran off down the street firing randomly and was finally killed by another officer who put 7 of 8 rounds of .45 Hydra-Shoks through his COM.

BTW: Just a note to the hard corps .45 fans that even that mighty caliber is NOT a magic sword. The shot officer's side arm was a 1911 or clone loaded with 230grn Hydra-Shoks. She survived TWO rounds in the face and head at point-blank range and recently walked into a press conference under her own power.
 
The woman is facing mental hygiene and assault charges.
Click to expand...
"Mental hygiene"? "Mental hygiene charges"? :confused:

Someone 'splain, please.

pax
 
I hope everyone can see why police officers treat all persons the same; until they KNOW otherwise. How are we to know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? When you read stuff like this, it only reinforces training; no one is your friend, until you prove otherwise.

You pull over a car. So what you ran the plates? How do you know the person driving the car is really Sweet Polly Purebread. How do I know she didn't lend the car to her boyfriend, Charles Manson? I don't know and I won't know, until I prove otherwise.

You stop a guy on the street who claims to have a CCW. How do you know he is telling the truth, until you confirm it? So what do you do? Stand there, with a guy who may or may not be a criminal, who is armed, for 5 minutes trying to confirm their status?

It maybe mean, rotten, etc however it is life out there. This type of incident, and many more like it, proves it.
 
Just had the one year anniversary of a local cop shot by a nut job.
The loony had been dropped at a mental hospital for evaluation, and somehow just walked away.

Female officer spotted him downtown.
He walked up to her, knocked her down, took her gun, fired several shots to her head.
She died.

Several bystanders witnessed this.
Why are there never any CCW holders around when you need them?
 
Mini14, sometimes there are. A few years back, a CCW holder assisted a Phoenix Police Officer when the officer got ambushed. Unfortunetly the officer died, but the citizen grabbed one of the shooters, after emptying his gun (scorced a few non-fatal hits, IIRC). When his gun was taken as evidence, the Police Association gave him a check for a new one.

"This is one man we don't want to see unarmed!"

Made all the TV stations, who had a hard time putting a negative spin on this. Most they could do was talking police heads saying "he was lucky, citizens should leave police work to us" - it didn't fly at all.
 
tetleyb,
You stop a guy on the street who claims to have a CCW. How do you know he is telling the truth, until you confirm it? So what do you do? Stand there, with a guy who may or may not be a criminal, who is armed, for 5 minutes trying to confirm their status?
Click to expand...
Assuming the stop wasn't for a criminal offense beyond traffic violations, around here most cops tell you to leave your gun where it is and they'll keep theirs holstered too. Of course, there are no doubt exceptions who would draw down, throw me onto the pavement, and handcuff me just to be on the safe side (and no doubt they'd be applauded by some), but I've dealt with police who knew I was armed on two occasions, and got a version of the "leave yours alone and I'll leave mine alone" line both times.

Because they've been good to me, I tend to be more polite and respectful to officers myself. I slow down and give 'em as much space as possible when they've pulled someone over and lower my window so I can hear if there's a problem. Police have treated me well thus far, so I go out of my way to watch their back wherever I can.

Someone who - either after being asked, or at the beginning of an ecounter - announces to you that they are armed and says they have a permit to carry are likely (though, admittedly, not always) not the Bad Guy. It's the guy who says he doesn't have a gun and then crams one up your nose that you really have to worry about, eh?
 
I have never been treated rudley or roughly by any officer when I politley advised them that I was armed. Most common course of events went something like this;

Me: Hello officer, As a courtesy to you, I wish to advise you that I do have a loaded firearm in my car.

LEO: Thank you, where is it?

Me: In the ......

LEO: please step out of the car sir. or That's ok, thanks for letting me know.

The most any officer has done is to simply seperate me from the gun and take charge of it. Then hand it back unloaded. Once, I had my apartment broken into and called the Bernalillo County Sheriff to fill out a report. While there taking the report, one of the two Deputies noticed my 1911 laying on the TV where I had put it when I got home. He asked' "Is that loaded?" I said; "Yes sir, it's too damn short for a club." Both Deputies chuckled and we finished the report.

On another occaision, a friend and I were hit by another car that backed into us at a stop sign. When two men got out and started walking back to our car, we both thought this was a classic "bump and rob" act, so both of us drew our 1911s and covered them. A witness called the police, the driver jumped in the other car and left, and since there was no real damage, I let him, although I did get the Lic. plate #. When the police arrived, my friend ad I laid our pistols in the passenger's seat of my car and locked the doors, then stood in front of the car with our hands in plain sight. After the officers took control of the scene and patted us down, they asked where the guns were. We told them and one officer shined his light into the car, then asked ME to unload them. It turned out that the passenger in the car that hit us was a well know male prostitute and the driver had refused to pay him for services renered. He had grabbed the shift lever and put the car into reverse in an attempt to get help. Go figure. "Help police! My john won't pay me!" Well we went home and he went to jail.
 
As always, I am still learning valuable lessons.

I should have preferenced and qaulified my statements. I guess if you work in an area which has alot of people carrying weapons LEGALLY, you would work that way. However, here in the People's Republic of California, 99% of the time, anyone carrying a gun or having a gun in their cars, is either a cop or criminal. And most of the time, they are criminals.

I guess that just goes to show me, things are different all over the country. What is "normal" here, isn't there and vis versa.
 
I guess that just goes to show me, things are different all over the country. What is "normal" here, isn't there and vis versa.
Click to expand...
tetleyb,

Good on you to realize that.

Awhile back, a buddy of mine got pulled over for a burned out tail light while I was in the van with him. He politely took the keys out of the ignition, turned on the dome light, pulled out his driver's licence and CPL, and waited with his hands on the wheel while the officer approached the vehicle. The officer shone his light in the back windows on his way up, illuminating the half-dozen other people in the van. Standing at the window, he glanced at my buddy's paperwork and decided that he'd need to disarm my buddy before going back to run the DL. Buddy cooperated with that awkward business, and cop visibly relaxed as soon as that was accomplished.

Three problems:

1) it isn't the ones who tell you they're armed that you have to worry about. There wasn't any real reason to take my buddy's gun from him, given that his papers were in order, the plate had already been called in, and he was obviously cooperative. It did not make the cop any safer, only made him feel he was safer. That's a problem because of point 3).

2) (sigh) the cop's gun handling skills left something to be desired; he pointed the gun at me briefly in the process of unloading it. I ducked, he apologized ... but the gun was less of a threat to the innocent while it was on buddy's hip than it was in that officer's hand. Of course the officer has the legal right to do whatever he deems necessary in order to get home to his family at end of shift, but if he'd shot me he wouldn't have gotten home until long after shift change. At least, one hopes.

3) the officer visibly relaxed after disarming my buddy and plainly believed he had control of every weapon on scene. Problem is that every other adult in the van was also legally armed. The officer had control only two guns -- his own, and the gun belonging to the only person in the car for whom he had ID. The risk to him after he disarmed our driver was almost exactly the same as it had been before he disarmed our driver, but the officer didn't know that. He "felt" safer, and so was more at risk. The officer relaxed so visibly and completely that it wasn't funny. I still worry a bit about his safety, and wish I had some way to contact just him (not his superiors) to point this out to him. We were good guys, but the next folks he pulls over may not be.

Stay safe out there.

pax
 
tet, not to worry, how were you to know. Here is just "one of those places." The usual response to "any guns in the car" here is "What do you need, officer?":D

While there is no disclosure or surrender requirement here, I always tell people to Eddie Haskell up and not to get nervous as coppers react off one's fear. You're not doing anything wrong, why worry?:)

Whatever you do don't do what THR smartypants whose initials are "j.p." sez to do--do NOT yell out to the officer "I've got a gun" as he approaches your window. :p :D
 
Hey, El Tejon, Yer right. You don't wanna yell that. You wanna yell,

"Hey! Back off Barney!
I've got a piece!"
 
Does anyone else think this cop should find a new line of work? I'd figure that having a 7 year old put the boots to you would hard to live down in the squadroom
 
Of course the officer has the legal right to do whatever he deems necessary in order to get home to his family at end of shift
Click to expand...

This is perhaps more of a question for Legal/Political, but is this really the case? If the officer does not have probable cause to believe you are committing or about to commit a crime, does he have the legal right to demand your firearm?
 
twency asked;

This is perhaps more of a question for Legal/Political, but is this really the case? If the officer does not have probable cause to believe you are committing or about to commit a crime, does he have the legal right to demand your firearm?
Click to expand...

We don't need to move this to L&P we can answer this here ;). Yes, the officer has a legal right to demand your fiream. Look up the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on Terry vs. Ohio. Basically, the court found that an officer had a right to conduct a pat down search for weapons on any person he or she encountered if they believed that that person might present a threat to his/her safety. This permits the officer to retrieve the weapon and if legally possesed, secure it for the duration of the contact. No CCW here in Illinois but on occasion I have held onto knives that I discovered during a Terry search and given them back to the subject at the end of the contact if no further enforcement action was taken. I don't know of any decisions in any states that allow CCW that would permit you to refuse to be disarmed.

Jeff
 
Just out of curiosity, is the text of this decision available (free) online? I tried a quick Google search, and didn't come up with anything other than passing references to it.

Thanks in advance if you can point me to the decision online. (I know how I could find it in print if necessary, or on Lexis, but I'm a sucker for a free lunch.)
 
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