Valuable lesson for the sheeple in SoCal. DON'T GO INTO A WILDERNESS AREA UNARMED. Some sheeple learned THE HARD WAY that humans are not always at the top of the food chain. Needless to say, I'm always armed while hiking remote trails in the Georgia mountains. Harsh reality, meet California. California, meet harsh reality.
Another mountain lion attack in gun free utopia
- Thread starter gunsmith
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My wife and I were just talking about this. She said she "kinda" agrees with the need to hunt them, but wouldn't want to see them all wiped out. I told her to consider it "survival of the fittest."
She said (to paraphrase): "Of course the humans will survive... that's just what I'm worried about. That we'll kill off everything natural in the world."
I said, "No, that's not what I mean. What I mean, by "survival of the fittest" is this: The smartest, fittest cats will learn that messing with humans is hazardous to their health. They'll learn to avoid us like the plague, thereby allowing their genes to propagate the species. The stupid cats will die."
As it should be...
She said (to paraphrase): "Of course the humans will survive... that's just what I'm worried about. That we'll kill off everything natural in the world."
I said, "No, that's not what I mean. What I mean, by "survival of the fittest" is this: The smartest, fittest cats will learn that messing with humans is hazardous to their health. They'll learn to avoid us like the plague, thereby allowing their genes to propagate the species. The stupid cats will die."
As it should be...
I love the people who automatically assume that hunting mountain lions or killing one in self-defense equates to eradication.
As if the only possible options are: Total Protection and Total Eradication.
I'm not a big expert on mountain lions, but from everything I've read, they are generally not considered aggressive to humans.
That is TRUE as long as they have their XX square miles to hunt. If you start packing lots of them into tiny spaces, they're going to get aggressive to anything that moves and is made of meat.
The solution is to reduce the population until their range can support them adequately.
Wow, once again, moderation is the answer--how does that keep happening????
As if the only possible options are: Total Protection and Total Eradication.
I'm not a big expert on mountain lions, but from everything I've read, they are generally not considered aggressive to humans.
That is TRUE as long as they have their XX square miles to hunt. If you start packing lots of them into tiny spaces, they're going to get aggressive to anything that moves and is made of meat.
The solution is to reduce the population until their range can support them adequately.
Wow, once again, moderation is the answer--how does that keep happening????
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Harry Tuttle
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They interviewed the guy with the "boulder" on npr tonight
funny thing, no one mentioned bike riding with a gun
Jan. 9, 2004
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1591640
NPR's Michele Norris talks with Nils Magnuson of Long beach, Calif., who came upon a mountain lion attacking a fellow bicyclist yesterday in a wilderness area of Orange County, south of Los Angeles. The large cat had its jaws around the head of Anne Hjelle, who survived the attack and is now in a hospital. Magnuson says with the help of others he scared the animal off and called authorities. He says he'll wait before bicycling alone in that area.
funny thing, no one mentioned bike riding with a gun
Jan. 9, 2004
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1591640
NPR's Michele Norris talks with Nils Magnuson of Long beach, Calif., who came upon a mountain lion attacking a fellow bicyclist yesterday in a wilderness area of Orange County, south of Los Angeles. The large cat had its jaws around the head of Anne Hjelle, who survived the attack and is now in a hospital. Magnuson says with the help of others he scared the animal off and called authorities. He says he'll wait before bicycling alone in that area.
CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
...MORE COUGARS THAN CCW PERMITS
..Yes my children, it's ALL TRUE.
There are MORE Mountains Lions (approximately 8,000) in California than there are CCW permit holders.
Hmmmmmmmm......
..Yes my children, it's ALL TRUE.
There are MORE Mountains Lions (approximately 8,000) in California than there are CCW permit holders.
Hmmmmmmmm......
inventory0297
Member
There are nearly 3,000 permits in Shasta County alone. Basically shall issue around here. You probably meant 80,000
Politicians and Journalist Corporations benefit greatly from a polarized society. People are a lot easier to control when they fight each other constantly. For some it is simply a matter of divide and conquer, for others it is a matter of corporate profit. If the newspaper/tv/radio starts a survey they can get better circulation by using polar opposites.
JohnkSA was right about the drastic difference in protection/eradication of the mountain lions. I cannot think of one animal that has a regular hunting season that has ever been eradicated in the USA. A regular hunting season would do wonders for the health of the cougar population. One tactic used with the cougar hunting ban was to divide hunters into hound and non hound groups. Obviously few people actually own hounds. Divide and conquer!
You will notice that no California journalist would dare to suggest that people carry guns for protection. They would be fired.
JohnkSA was right about the drastic difference in protection/eradication of the mountain lions. I cannot think of one animal that has a regular hunting season that has ever been eradicated in the USA. A regular hunting season would do wonders for the health of the cougar population. One tactic used with the cougar hunting ban was to divide hunters into hound and non hound groups. Obviously few people actually own hounds. Divide and conquer!
You will notice that no California journalist would dare to suggest that people carry guns for protection. They would be fired.
stevelyn
Member
Wildlife management needs to be based on sound science by "wildlife biologists" not mobocracy referendums voted on by the Walt Disney generation that haven't a clue as to what happens in the wild.
California gets what it deserves. I would be curious to learn if any of the victims had voted in favor of the hunting ban.
California gets what it deserves. I would be curious to learn if any of the victims had voted in favor of the hunting ban.
TallPine
Member
Of course, because then it is in the hunters' own self interest to perpetuate the species.
But idiots cannot see the obvious.
What we need is a hunting season for spotted owls. Then in a few years, people would be complaining about the owls pooping all over their porches, since there would be so many of them.
birddog
Member
just my opnion
I've always explained it to my non-hunting family members and friends this way:
Question: "Why are you afraid of bears?" (same for cougars)
Normal answer: "Because they might kill me"
Question: "Then, why are bears usually afraid of you"
Usual answer: "Because we might hurt/kill them"
Exactly.
If you take fear out of the equation on either side, someone's going to get hurt. As just happened in CA. The cat had nothing to fear other than single-shot boulder-hefting. What was the muzzle velocity on that boulder, anyway, about 1 fps?
I am an avid hunter, and have NO desire to see any species -- especially the wild, dangerous and beautifully treacherous ones -- eradicated. I just think we should keep educating them. And, as we've just seen, they will likely continue to educate us too.
Joel
I've always explained it to my non-hunting family members and friends this way:
Question: "Why are you afraid of bears?" (same for cougars)
Normal answer: "Because they might kill me"
Question: "Then, why are bears usually afraid of you"
Usual answer: "Because we might hurt/kill them"
Exactly.
If you take fear out of the equation on either side, someone's going to get hurt. As just happened in CA. The cat had nothing to fear other than single-shot boulder-hefting. What was the muzzle velocity on that boulder, anyway, about 1 fps?
I am an avid hunter, and have NO desire to see any species -- especially the wild, dangerous and beautifully treacherous ones -- eradicated. I just think we should keep educating them. And, as we've just seen, they will likely continue to educate us too.
Joel
If I were a bettin' man, I would bet that you are close to the truth except, the numbers apply to a local scale rather than the entire state.
Point is, virtually ALL of the people riding bikes in that location, do not have CCW.
Well how bout it CCWs in the area, are we correct?
I hike and ride the Whiting Ranch trail where the attack happened all the time. I always carry a gun and a knife. I think even a good pocket knife would have helped the female playing tug of war with the Cougar. She was close enough to stab it. A gun would be better.
I have a CCW. Hopefully, California will be free someday and all the occupants can decide for themselves if they want to be food for the animals.
It is a beautiful trail. Actually, I am MUCH more concerned about the rattlesnakes than I am the mountain lions. I have seen a half a dozen while riding there.
I have a CCW. Hopefully, California will be free someday and all the occupants can decide for themselves if they want to be food for the animals.
It is a beautiful trail. Actually, I am MUCH more concerned about the rattlesnakes than I am the mountain lions. I have seen a half a dozen while riding there.
A cat in the spat!
Contrary to their reports there have been many more cat attacks. For instance, last year 2 hunters were attacked in Placer county while turkey hunting. It seems as though the cat thought the humans were a yelping tom and wanted dinner. I have seen 3 mountain lions in 20 yrs of residing in Ca.. Once on the prison grounds of Folsom prison stalking some turkeys; once at camp far west and once near forresthill. The Cats have been seen/taken in very densely populated areas of Sacramento. Most notabley in Roseville near a school. Iv'e hunted several times in the high sierras and have gotten the chill of being watched while crouched scanning for deer only later to find fresh lion scat on the hike out. The interesting thing about mountain lions is that they stalk their prey and eat it. Unlike most shark attacks, the mountainlions don't release and let their prey bleed out or leave it alone. They end up eating the humans and saving a portion for later. They attack from the blind side and almost always bite the neck. The man that died was apparantly in great physical shape but was unable to defend himself. I doubt a firearm or knife would do much good in a surprise mauling like he faced. A canister of cat repellent may have done more good but who knows. I wish the families the best and hope the media will acknowledge that self defense is the first defense.
Contrary to their reports there have been many more cat attacks. For instance, last year 2 hunters were attacked in Placer county while turkey hunting. It seems as though the cat thought the humans were a yelping tom and wanted dinner. I have seen 3 mountain lions in 20 yrs of residing in Ca.. Once on the prison grounds of Folsom prison stalking some turkeys; once at camp far west and once near forresthill. The Cats have been seen/taken in very densely populated areas of Sacramento. Most notabley in Roseville near a school. Iv'e hunted several times in the high sierras and have gotten the chill of being watched while crouched scanning for deer only later to find fresh lion scat on the hike out. The interesting thing about mountain lions is that they stalk their prey and eat it. Unlike most shark attacks, the mountainlions don't release and let their prey bleed out or leave it alone. They end up eating the humans and saving a portion for later. They attack from the blind side and almost always bite the neck. The man that died was apparantly in great physical shape but was unable to defend himself. I doubt a firearm or knife would do much good in a surprise mauling like he faced. A canister of cat repellent may have done more good but who knows. I wish the families the best and hope the media will acknowledge that self defense is the first defense.
BerettaNut92
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What Dave3006 said. While I'd carry while there, there's much more of a chance of getting nailed driving there. I'm mainly worried about snakes and 2-legged critters.
gunsmith
member
Female victim is a Marine!
Cyclist who survived mountain lion attack upgraded to fair condition
"Her recovery is truly miraculous," said the victim's husband, James Hjelle.
Anne Hjelle was rescued Thursday from the mountain lion's jaws by her cycling companion, Debbie Nichols. The big cat had pounced on Hjelle and tried to drag her away, but Nichols grabbed her friend's leg and held on as other cyclists threw rocks at the mountain lion until it let go.
Authorities believe the same mountain lion earlier that day attacked and killed another cyclist, Mark Reynolds, 35, whose body was found nearby.
Tests were being conducted on a 2-year-old, 110-pound male mountain lion that was tracked from the site by Orange County sheriff's deputies and killed. Tissue believed to be human was found in its stomach and DNA tests were planned to confirm a match, said Steve Edinger of the California Department of Fish and Game.
Hjelle, 30, who works as a fitness instructor, was upgraded from serious to fair condition and continues to recover at Mission Hospital Regional Medical Center in Mission Viejo, according to a statement Sunday morning by a hospital spokesman.
Cyclist who survived mountain lion attack upgraded to fair condition
http://www.9news.com/storyfull.aspx?storyid=22995
"Her recovery is truly miraculous," said the victim's husband, James Hjelle.
Anne Hjelle was rescued Thursday from the mountain lion's jaws by her cycling companion, Debbie Nichols. The big cat had pounced on Hjelle and tried to drag her away, but Nichols grabbed her friend's leg and held on as other cyclists threw rocks at the mountain lion until it let go.
Authorities believe the same mountain lion earlier that day attacked and killed another cyclist, Mark Reynolds, 35, whose body was found nearby.
Tests were being conducted on a 2-year-old, 110-pound male mountain lion that was tracked from the site by Orange County sheriff's deputies and killed. Tissue believed to be human was found in its stomach and DNA tests were planned to confirm a match, said Steve Edinger of the California Department of Fish and Game.
Hjelle, 30, who works as a fitness instructor, was upgraded from serious to fair condition and continues to recover at Mission Hospital Regional Medical Center in Mission Viejo, according to a statement Sunday morning by a hospital spokesman.
WilderBill
Member
If California were to break with tradition and do the smart thing, they would allow a yearly hunt and encourage people going to remote areas to be armed and only go in groups.
Being the bleeding heart liberals they are, we can expect that they will, if anything, try to relocate the cats.
I suggest they be moved to the border. Maybe with some nice tracking collars in a pleasent shade of border patrol green.
Being the bleeding heart liberals they are, we can expect that they will, if anything, try to relocate the cats.
I suggest they be moved to the border. Maybe with some nice tracking collars in a pleasent shade of border patrol green.
gunsmith
member
I called
Whiting Ranch Park but they wouldn't answer the phone.
I left a message saying "I bet the mtn lions LOVE the firearm ban!
Whiting Ranch Park but they wouldn't answer the phone.
I left a message saying "I bet the mtn lions LOVE the firearm ban!
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