Another new optic

[kmw1954]

Looking to replace the Burris FF E1 4.5-14X42 that is om my modified Savage Model11 223. I do like this scope but it just is not conducive to shooting 1" targets @ 300yds. Just hard to hit what you can't see.

So my choices have been narrowed to another Athlon Argos Gen II 8-34X56, Argos Gen II 6-24X50, Athlon Helos 6-24X56 34MM or the Arken SH4 6-24X50 34mm and the Arken EP5 5-25X56 34mm..

Already have an Argos 8-34 and very seldom find myself using above 30X so I have knowledge of this scope and like it. Only thinking of trying something different.

So yes I have been reading and watching reviews and comparisons and still have not decided. Though I am leaning towards the Helos and the EP5.

 

[LoonWulf]

Argos and SH4 are in the same class glass-wise, the turrets on the SH4 smoke the Argos, and its has significantly more adjustment.....if your shooting static targets at known range, then I dont think the SH4 offers you anything significantly advantageous.
Ive only LOOKED thru a Helos a couple of times in one day at the range, and IMO its carrying the same glass as the Ares, which is a decent step up from the Argos/SH4 class optic. turrets are just as good as the Arkens, and it gives you a similar adjustment range.
My buddy just backordered an EP5, but I havent got hands on with it yet. If the glass is similar to the Ares/Helos class scopes id probably go with which ever you can get cheaper.

 

[LiveLife]

my choices have been narrowed to another Athlon Argos Gen II 8-34X56, Argos Gen II 6-24X50, Athlon Helos 6-24X56 34MM or the Arken SH4 6-24X50 34mm and the Arken EP5 5-25X56 34mm

... I am leaning towards the Helos and the EP5 ... 1" targets @ 300yds

I got to check out Arken EP5 and I would recommend you include Athlon Argos Gen II BTR 10-40X56mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...0-40x56mm-side-focus-30mm-blr-sfp-moa.902061/

Argos and SH4 are in the same class glass-wise, the turrets on the SH4 smoke the Argos, and its has significantly more adjustment

This is true due to 1/8 MOA turrets.

My buddy just backordered an EP5, but I havent got hands on with it yet. If the glass is similar to the Ares/Helos class scopes id probably go with which ever you can get cheaper.

The Gen II model fixed the above 30x clarity issue and turret zero of Gen I and at above 25x power, IMO more superior to EP5 for greater ranges of 300 yards+ (And I really liked the EP5) as experienced in this comparison - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-reticle-for-150.900740/page-2#post-12216505

 

[LoonWulf]

I got to check out Arken EP5 and I would recommend you include Athlon Argos Gen II BTR 10-40X56mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...0-40x56mm-side-focus-30mm-blr-sfp-moa.902061/


This is true due to 1/8 MOA turrets.


The Gen II model fixed the above 30x clarity issue and turret zero of Gen I and at above 25x power, IMO more superior to EP5 for greater ranges of 300 yards+ (And I really liked the EP5) as experienced in this comparison - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-reticle-for-150.900740/page-2#post-12216505

Ill have to try one of the argos gen 2s, ive had a few of the Argos HMRs which theoretically should carry the same glass as the Argos BTR g2s and they are pretty decent, as good as the older Midas Btrs at least.
While I dont generally need more than 25x, even at a mile a MOA target was bracket able, It would still be fun to have a high power scope of my own, i enjoy playing with my dads Sightron.

 

[kmw1954]

Did not realize it until I went back and re-read the other thread that the 10-40 is a SFP scope same for the 8-34 First gen.
The 8-34X56 Gen2 is a FFP scope.

Also Arken is offering 30% off for Fathers Day on all items from their site.

Watched more videos and rewatched some of the previous ones and am now more uncertain on which to choose. Kind of making me believe I should once again go with the Argos 3-34

 

[Walkalong]

Scope shopping can be tough.

 

[greyling22]

Scope shopping can be tough.

but so much fun!
I have 3 I need to sell before I buy any more.

 

[jmr40]

it just is not conducive to shooting 1" targets @ 300yds. Just hard to hit what you can't see.

Unless you, your rifle, and ammo can shoot 1" groups at 300 yards then it isn't a scope problem. It is a target problem. You need a bigger aiming point. If you, and your gear can shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with a 14X scope, you can shoot 1/2 MOA well past 300 yards with a 14X scope. In fact you should be able to go to 1000 yards with a 14X scope.

The key is that you need fine crosshairs, and as range increases you need bigger aiming points. If your crosshairs completely cover the aiming point then you will be inconsistent. A target with a 1" aiming point is OK at 100 yards and with some scopes even at 200 yards. But at 300 yards you need a 3" aiming point. If you have a 1/2 MOA rifle, you can shoot 1/2 MOA groups at 300 yards with a 6X scope.

I've shot at the Talladega shooting park a couple of times. They have targets at 100, 200, 300, and 600 yards. The black on each target approximately 6 MOA. 6.35" @ 100 yards, 13" @ 200, 19" @ 300, and 36" at 600 yards. I shot there using a fixed 6X scope and managed 1/2 MOA groups out to 300 yards. Around .75 MOA at 600 yards.

Lots of guys get carried away chasing a lot of X's when they need to concentrate on quality.

 

[LoonWulf]

Unless you, your rifle, and ammo can shoot 1" groups at 300 yards then it isn't a scope problem. It is a target problem. You need a bigger aiming point. If you, and your gear can shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with a 14X scope, you can shoot 1/2 MOA well past 300 yards with a 14X scope. In fact you should be able to go to 1000 yards with a 14X scope.

The key is that you need fine crosshairs, and as range increases you need bigger aiming points. If your crosshairs completely cover the aiming point then you will be inconsistent. A target with a 1" aiming point is OK at 100 yards and with some scopes even at 200 yards. But at 300 yards you need a 3" aiming point. If you have a 1/2 MOA rifle, you can shoot 1/2 MOA groups at 300 yards with a 6X scope.

I've shot at the Talladega shooting park a couple of times. They have targets at 100, 200, 300, and 600 yards. The black on each target approximately 6 MOA. 6.35" @ 100 yards, 13" @ 200, 19" @ 300, and 36" at 600 yards. I shot there using a fixed 6X scope and managed 1/2 MOA groups out to 300 yards. Around .75 MOA at 600 yards.

Lots of guys get carried away chasing a lot of X's when they need to concentrate on quality.

I believe @kmw1954 is using his scope for local competition, and targets are standardized, and IF i remember correctly NOT centered on the backer, he can correct me if I'm wrong. Id rather have a decent 25x scope at 1000yds than a good 10x scope. With a decent 25x I have a pretty good chance of seeing the .5 moa center circle on our 1moa plate, and even calling splashes.....10x wont do it, 14 or 16 can usually, but it can be tough. Even my fairly "poor" Arken will show 6.5 splashes as long as the plates freshish. My dads Siii at 25+ will show splashes even on a pretty well-peppered plate.
Perhaps we have some advantages, we usually shoot at 8500ft and clear air, with a major dip between us and the target, not much mirage or other crap to look thru.
IMO the overall quality of optics has improved to the point where 300-400 dollar high mag scopes might well be plenty decent enough to use the magnification....cant honestly say, because while I only have one scope under 10x at max, I dont have any of my own over 25x....and after looking thru a decent 10-50 pretty often......25x doesn't seem all that powerful

 

[LoonWulf]

I got to check out Arken EP5 and I would recommend you include Athlon Argos Gen II BTR 10-40X56mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...0-40x56mm-side-focus-30mm-blr-sfp-moa.902061/


This is true due to 1/8 MOA turrets.


The Gen II model fixed the above 30x clarity issue and turret zero of Gen I and at above 25x power, IMO more superior to EP5 for greater ranges of 300 yards+ (And I really liked the EP5) as experienced in this comparison - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-reticle-for-150.900740/page-2#post-12216505

Smaller Tube also, tho 45MOA isnt bad by any means.
Only scopes I really have had issues with at distances closer than 1000yds, were my Meopta HTRs that only have something like 30moa total, and my Leupy thats got a zero stop that limits travel to one Rev, both of those I run out of adjustments at about 600yds with a Zero cant rail.
Again for the OPs 300yds none of these would be an issue, but for someone reading the thread considering longer distances, it might be more of a concern.

 

[kmw1954]

Yes this is for shooting an informal local rifle league that we are shooting at 100/200/300yd targets and many of the 300yd targets have a 1" 10 ring... One week there is a combination target that has a first shot cold bore target with a 1/2 MOA black target set to 200yds.. Another week we shoot at a target that is made up of diminishing circles from 4" down to 1/2" also set to 200yds.. Then we have a target with three 3" targets, three 2" targets and two squirrels. Each of the circle targets get one shot then there are 7 shots into each squirrel.

So yes the scope makes a difference. Hence the Can't hit what ya can't see. At the 100 and 200yd targets I could get by with my 4.5-14 Burris but the 300 yd. targets become impossible to see the 10 ring.

Now I can shoot MOA and sub MOA with the old Savage and the Athlon 8-34X56 FFP scope. Next season I will be shooting with a new Savage and really do not want to swap scopes to rifles. The new rifle I am hoping to get to .5 MOA.. Also a reason for the FFP SCOPE.

Last year, my first year, I finished 15th out of 19 shooters. And yes there are members that are consistently shooting 2 hole three shot groups at 300yds.. Which is not me. yet.

 

[kmw1954]

A few things I've learned this week watching video review.

In one video the poster was comparing a $600.00 Athlon Helos against a $2000.00+ Vortex Razor. How's that for a fair head to head comparison?
Another was the Arken HS4, about $400.00, against a Vortex Viper PST GEN2,around $1000.00

Also learned the Athlon Argos Gen2 uses the same glass as the Helos Gen2 with the difference being the lockable turrets and 34mm tube on the Helos at a cost of another $150.00.. Does the extra 4mm of tube diameter make that much difference?

And once again procrastinated and didn't take advantage of the 30% off on the Arken scope for Fathers Day. What indecision does to one.

 

[kmw1954]

Tonight I took the leap and ordered a new Athlon Helos Gen2 6-24X56.. Think I found a good deal at just over $500.00

 

[kmw1954]

new scope arrived last night, It is massive! Still waiting on rings. Didn't realize that 34mm rings were that much more expensive!

 

[JFrank]

Does the extra 4mm of tube diameter make that much difference?

it does now.

 

[kmw1954]

Have looked thru it but hard to tell anything in the rain and it wobbling around.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Pics or its not real!

 

[kmw1954]

Pics or its not real!

once I get it mounted.

 

[kmw1954]

So this turned into an adventure. Scope arrived in excellent condition and very Quickly. Then ordered Athlon Med. rings to go with it. They arrived a day early and the excitement grew until I opened them to find they are Picatinny bases and the rifle has Weavers. They wouldn't fit, dangit. Then ordered Burris Xtreme Tactical 2 pc. bases and they arrived today.

So everything is now mounted and bore sighted. Tomorrow I work at the range and hope to get time to sight it in. So far I am lovin what I'm seeing. As soon as I find the camera again, misplaced from vacation, I will post some pictures.