Another One Bites the Dust (28ga)

[TrapperReady]

Well Steve, I took the plunge and picked up a brand-spanking new 870 Express 28ga. I looked at tube sets and such, and long-term I think they'll be the solution, but I decided on testing the waters with the 870 for now.

While shopping, I handled a new Wingmaster, a BPS, an 1100 and a couple O/Us. I decided against the O/Us based on price. The BPS felt good (very heavy for a 28ga -- which isn't a bad thing if you're shooting it at clays), but the reach to the forearm was a tad long. The 1100 was OK too, but I had decided I wasn't going to spend that much. The Wingmaster was more nicely finished and came with screw-in chokes and a mid-bead... but was almost $500. The Express was $249. For that amount, I'll live with the fixed Mod choke and I never cared much for extra beads.

In any event, it's an Express. Nothing special at all, except that it fits me very well. It's got the stupid J-lock, but I'll either ignore it or replace it. I'll probably shoot a couple rounds of clays with it tomorrow, time permitting.

When I got it home, I pulled my other small-gauge pumps from the safe for comparison. It's sure no Model 42! It's not even comparable to a 1958 870 Wingmaster. But, I expect that it will function well and shoot where I point it, which is just fine by me.

BTW, I do have an ulterior motive for this thing. I'll use it for a while to compete in the sub-gauge SC events, and when it gets replaced by a tube set, I'll cut the stock down a bit and fit it with a Kick-Eez pad. It will then become the resident "new shooter" iron for introducing smaller-statured folks (kids, my MIL, etc...) to the games.

Now I've just got to make an ammo run and pick up a few flats of shells. The MEC can wait while I stock up on empties.

Dave - Tag! You're it.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I'm starting to feel like the last Mohican.....

Congrats on the new toy. It may not be a 42, but it didn't cost four figures either.

A lot can be done with a 28 gauge, fixed Mod and some shells. While my experience with sub guages is limited, I'd tend to choke up a bit just to keep pattern density viable.

Buy shells and shot with high antimony levels. Good for any shotgun, for the 3/4 oz load keeping all the pellets in the pattern is crucial.

Now go BA/UU/R and tell us how things go....

 

[sm]

Congrats Trapper!

Now I will be the first to admit, I appreciate a O/U or SxS in the subguns. Then again I recall and was fortunate to be raised poor.

I was also fortunate to learn a LOT of of quality Life Lessons.

One starts out wanting to always take limits, be it fish or game. One starts out having to shoot a straight in clay games. They may not enjoy the shooting,the people, anything - always about the limits and scores. Then comes the 'buying and aquiring" of all sorts of stuff, be it more guns, or stuff to put on guns, or even more stuff to use with guns.

After some time, shooting enough rounds downrange, having taken the limits, shot the straights, got a bunch of stuff...

Quality not Quanity is better understood.

Those older mentors and elders I knew, would often shoot one gun and know it. Very often they would take afield an older gun with history, or even a sub-gauge for the task.

Oh they could shoot, reminds me of Brister " gets to the point where you can fell 'em with a stick"..."painting them out of the sky"...

So the old geezer did not limit out - he didn't want to. But Dang Margo, the way he shot, the shots he chose to make - fluid strokes painting them out of the sky.

Now I am big on passing it forward and preserving history. Some guns need gathered up and preserved for the future shooters.

I gots a 870 Express for no other reason 'cept to say, that happens to be the paintbrush I choose at this time.

Word is a semi-worthless dog tends to behave and retreive better when his master uses a 28 ga. Why even it heard it said they tend to do even better if a pump gun is used.

Get back to me on that if you will.

Me, I've been known to not take all fish all morning, maybe I should have baited the hook on the braided line attached to the cane pole. Been known to not fell any game all morning either...I guess you are supposed to load the thing - huh?

Must have forgot those things - or not.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

An update on mine...

The one sm helped me pick out in Tulsa.

I haven't been able to make any hulls for the last two weeks because of the lousy spring weather here, but that is changing.

Ordered a MEC last Sunday at the local farm store, $105, only ten dollars higher than online. Helps the local economy, plus the sporting goods manager is a gun guy. Kudu sent me some reloading tips and recipes.

Found a new old stock modified barrel on Ebay, and with help from sm and Lee Lapin, got it for $150. Sandy said she would try sporting clays with this gun, and the skeet choke probably wouldn't work very well. Now, if I could just find a coach for her. She's never shot shotgun much, and I'm too stuck in my old ways to help much, probably.

Best part of this, Sandy asked me the other night:

Why all the interest in 28 ga? Six months ago you didn't give them a second glance, now you're spending all this money on them.

I gave her a sideways glance, and she said:

Oh, yeah. It's Steve's fault.

 

[kudu]

He he he he he,

Welcome to the 28 gauge bandwagon TR.

Why all the interest in 28 ga? Six months ago you didn't give them a second glance, now you're spending all this money on them.

Oh, yeah. It's Steve's fault.

Yep Larry, Steve deserves all the cred.. err blame.

 

[sm]

Ya know, I have never given lessons in CO.

Reprobate: Have talents - will travel.

 

[TrapperReady]

First impressions - Well, it sure is light to carry from the basement to the car and back. I went out to shoot some clays and ended up shooting a league round, so it was done with my 12ga O/U. The extra time I'd hoped for didn't materialize, and I had to bring it back unfired.

Oh well, there's always the weekend!

Any source for new-manufacture slugs for these things? I searched last night and didn't find anything.

 

[sm]

Trapper-

Dave mentioned Ballistic Products the other day having Slugs. Sigh...I was making my own back in the day, and had hoped to capitalize on this...seems I waited too long - again - on something I was "working on"

Always been told one of my ideas would make me rich...yeah well...err...umm...

I saw a niche for the 28 ga and slugs back when Nixon was Pres. I took game with mine...a .54 cal hole is a .54 cal hole.

That J hook safety : I cannot recall and don't have the Vang Comp part # handy. Anyway, using the Vang Comp, turn it down, recut the design if want - however you want , reblue and back to original configuration.

I would be curious if you would look at the Forcing cone area on yours. The Express models - including 28 ga's have had nice Forcing cones. I would also like to know if yours has the dimple on the mag tube, and how your magazine is set up - the old style ,or the new style as we see on the 12 and 20's.

To answer the emails : " How many 28 ga's do I have?"

Well as few select folks know, I have stuff off-site. One such offsite burned down...all my 28 ga's are gone, along with quite a bit of other firearm related stuff. Life Happens.

Main deal is the couple is okay and are gonna be okay. That new baby that arrived after the tragedy, the couple getting back on their feet - more of a priority.

 

[kudu]

Any source for new-manufacture slugs for these things? I searched last night and didn't find anything.

Dave mentioned Ballistic Products the other day having Slugs.

TR, I just bought a bag of these "slugs", but haven't had a chance to load them yet. What they are is a plastic wad with cups on both ends and a round ball is cupped on one end and the powder seal is on the other. There is no petals, the ball just sits on th ecup with nothing touching the sides. I took the micrometer and measured the round ball and it was .495, almost .50 cal. Seems that it would be a might loose in the bore considering a 28ga bore should be .550 and even a full choke should be about .528. Maybe Steve could shed some light on his old loads. I would think a mini ball of about .52 or .53 would be great.

 

[TrapperReady]

I would also like to know if yours has the dimple on the mag tube, and how your magazine is set up - the old style ,or the new style as we see on the 12 and 20's.

Steve - Remember that I'm a Model 12 guy, and my only other 870 is almost as old as you. If you'd be so kind as to 'splain the differences, I'll let you know how mine is set up. BTW, when I was putting in the plug (28ga might just work for dove -- or so I hear ) I didn't see any dimple. Likewise, the magazine setup seemed pretty much identical to my older model. However, if the changes are subtle, I can look more closely.

I'll check on the forcing cone once I've got the kids in bed.

 

[sm]

Disclaimer: THR is not responsible , recommending or condoning the following post.
Nor does the person posting

I have no idea where my notes are.

I always used Winchester Powders, wads, primers, to reload. I always shot Winchester ammo, even used only Winchester lead shot when avail.

I had read and used the Winchester Reloading manual - forever. Even tho the manual "said" this load matched a certan Win load...I had taken apart many Factory shells and measured and inspected.

Just because something is marked a certain way, or "says so" - don't mean it is.

I took apart a Factory 20 ga slug and measured the relationship of said slug to bore diameter of a 20 ga bbl. Everything, weight,length diameter, how fit into 20 ga hull...

I then took apart a 28 ga Target Load. I measured that hull - but good. From thickness to taking note of pwder chg, wad, base head...details.

Using a lathe I turned down a 20 ga slug to get the ratios of earlier Comparisons to 20 bore to new measurements to match "in ratio" to a 28 ga.

Gulf Oil sign was some 35 steps or so away, loaded that puppy up , shouldered and fired. I centered it, and that .54 cal hole went through the wood and exited. To say I was bit estactic - is an understatment.

I then repeated it with a hunting load of #6 shot removed, more pwder, it worked.

I made with assistance a wax of the slug, then had a mold made to have lead poured into it. The old fella was grinning - he knew - finally what I had been up to. Besides making a mess of his shop.

Well he got smart and made a really long mold, all we had to do was cut, and drill the hollow point.

Now I had bought a single shot 28 ga for more testing, there is a reason Full Choke is not recommended for Slugs, and I hadn't measured. This gun was suspect ( hey only paid $10 for it best recall) and blew off the 3" off the end - my gut told me to test fire that gun from an anchored tire with a cord - I had. The new Open bore on that gun compliment of Pipe Wrenches R Us worked much better.

Then I kinda got side tracked onto other things. Older fella got a bit sick, I was the eldest male adult , with no daddy, and 3 younger sibs. Then all the stuff at the times when I was in HS ...

More Testing and learning. The older fella died and the molds, waxes and such - never to be found. I looked where they were usually put back. For years - I figured someday my molds, waxes and such would re-surface, someone would know what it was for - and sell it to Win, Rem, Federal or somesuch. The old loadings already made up were never found either.

Still a mystery. I cannot find my notebook, and sketches either. Wierd.

Yes they worked. They looked just like the 12, 20's and .410 - only 28 ga. I'd be out bird hunting, and yes they worked and felled critters.

20/20 hindsight - I should have kept at it, followed it through...sigh...



Always knew there was a place for these slugs in 28 ga. Even way back then. I seem to have been the only one - the very few folks that knew- gave me a hard time and thought I was nuts. That old fella took a nice 6 point deer with one...the quail were not being cooperative, Mr Buck stepped out thinking he was just after quail...wrong.

Just a niche market and select tool for a task...still...

 

[TrapperReady]

Steve - As always, thanks for the info and the story. It always makes for good reading and pondering, even if I may not follow through in quite the same fashion.

BTW, I just got done cleaning the piece thoroughly. The cone doesn't look special in any way. Just a plain-old short cone, like on most production guns these days. Definitely no dimples on the mag tube, and I think the magazine is the same as the older style. Again, if you can describe the differences, I'll make sure.

As I cleaned it up, I noticed a few things.

(1) The receiver still had some metal shavings left over from the production. Not a lot, and not too big. No harm, no foul on that.

(2) Man does the Express finish tear lint off the patches. I use 12ga patches for a majority of my cleaning chores (que-tips for the rest), and I had to get a seperate rag to wipe the receiver down when I was done... mostly to get rid of the cloth bits pulled off the patches.

(3) The checkering is... umm... weak. Obviously pressed-in, but it is quite uneven and runs out in a couple spots, almost like the stock wasn't square in the jig when the checkering "stamps" were applied. Then again, it's an Express. If I wanted pretty, I'd have gotten the Wingmaster.

(4) The trigger has only a tiny bit of creep, but the pull is relatively heavy compared to most of my other shotguns. I don't have a scale, so I don't know for sure, but I'd guess it's close to 6 pounds.

(5) The preservative on the gun is very brown when it comes off on the rag... and it keeps coming off for a while. I've read some posts where people have gotten a new Express and are disgusted with how fast it's rusting. I'm wondering if they're seeing the preservative come off and think it's rust.

Now, number 4 is actually a good thing for me right now. I'm still battling a bit of a flinch, and I read something a while back about counteracting a flinch by using heavier triggers. It's something I plan to pay attention to and see if I'm any less prone to flinch when shooting this particular gun.

It looks like Saturday morning will be my chance to try it out. I may even break it in with a couple rounds of skeet, just as a little tribute to Steve.

 

[sm]

Tribute - Me?

You are kind, instead let them handsome boys of yours tag along or post a pic with them holding it - I'd get a bigger kick out seeing a pic of your gun and the boys grinning...semi-worthless munching on a peppermint.

1) The NEW style has a orange follower. The barrel ring does NOT have a ball in detent. Instead atop the mag spring is a black plastic dealie with notches in it - the mag cap frictions onto this.

2) I took the wood of my Express,removed the recoil pad, and sealed the ends of wood and the inside where stock bolt runs. That done, I then applied Johnson's Paste wax to wood.

3) Wiping off real good with low odor mineral spirits first all metal parts , I then blasted that Brown preservative stuff with CRC Brakleen, it may leave a grayish look to receiver and barrel.

Now I used RIG Grease to "season" mine. I have also used a good Carnuba Car Wax , or again the Johnson Paste wax. Whatever is handy. Multiple coats of Carunba is best if using the Carnuba waxes. Warm the bbl with a hairdryer and the RIG or Johnson's " seeps right in" .

4) Once that bbl and reciever is "seasoned" ( an you don't hit with a spray cleaner again) it will last a l-o-n-g time. I rarely even wipe mine down, unless out of habit I do it with a oily rag without even thinking.

5) Now I grew up with Happich SemiChrome. So me being me, stayed with it, my tests on precious metals in comparing with Flitz samples...well the Semichome did better and the ability to resist tarnish was better...

"Squirt" ( offical technical term here) this Semichrome into trigger group , the rails guides, up around the mag tube where forearm slides over....and cycle. dry fire that puppy. Polishes - does not remove metal.

Same great trick in getting a single shot shotgun a trigger job...I ain't gonna take them pins out...this method has worked too many times for me.

6) So finally the gun is ready to be put back together to use and shoot. Now remember to put RIG on the stock bolt,and make sure it has a lock washer at receiver. Now if you used Johnsons Paste wax ( or even if you didn't) before I get everything "together" - I use the Johnsons b/t metal and wood - a bit of extra insurance if you will. Tighten and Johnson that puppy up.

Recall I shot in all sorts of temps and weather...I liked competing in the rain. Never had a problem with a gun exposed to elements if prepped from the get go.

Really bad drenching, or taken the gun swimming...yeah I'd take it down and dry, clean and prep again.

My slugs and such-

I was blessed with some mechanical inclination in some areas. I was good with my hands, my eyes like Chuck Yeagers. I was curious and wanted to learn. My brain is wired funny - I may not know how , or some of the steps - but I see the starting point and the big picture. Made sense to me all I had to do was keep everything in ratio to what was on the market already. Permission to use shop tools, turned loose and off I went on various projects.

Boy did my Uncle gasp once when he caught me pulling .22 bullets, I was making my own .22 ratshot. Just something I wanted to try, and yes they worked. Them glass vials I talked the pharmacy guy out of - just the right diameter to friction into my .22 cases...My aunt almost had a coronary when she found out...

Only one had to be careful in loading them into the charge holes...but hey - Einstein had some problems too...