Another Pistol Grip Shotgun Thread

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kayak-man

kayak-man

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Right off the bat, I understand that are tons of threads about pistol grip shotguns. I understand that a shotgun with a full, or even a folding/collapsible stock, is better than a PGO shotgun. Also, my actual question is after this next paragraph, which is just justification.

That being said, I think that the popularity of the PGO shotgun, and this purely speculation, comes from Hollywood and a few actual practical applications of the PGO. I can think of a few situations when such a gun would be used: At a friends house when something goes bump in the night, and his only gun is a pistol grip Mossberg 500. Maybe you shoot a carjacker and decide that his cut down Rem 870 would be better then your S&W 642 to keep his buddies from shooting you.

I'm sure a talented fiction author could invent more scenarios where you would somehow acquire a PGO shotgun, but that's not the point of this thread. I would like to get a shotgun, probably a mossberg 500, with a pistol grip so I can become competent with this type of gun. Is there any material out there, any books or websites that are dedicated to this subject? Also, would it be better to get a shotgun with a standard or vertical foregrip? I want to be able to practise with just one style (atleast for now) but be able to use either down the road if thats what I happen to have access to.

Thanks, and if any part of this is confusing/ worded poorly, let me know and I'll try to clarify it.
 
There's a billion PGO threads for you to read.

The question I pulled out of your post is this:

Is there any material out there, any books or websites that are dedicated to mastering the PGO shotgun?
Click to expand...

Not that I know of.

People that write books that people buy and people that offer training that people seek out suggest you buy a shotgun with a short LOP traditional stock.
 
This is a learning experiance...

I just now learned the dangers of posting something when I'm sleep deprived and in a rush.

I actually read that thread, which is what gave me the idea for this one, since I didn't want to hijack that thread. That being said, I will try to rephrase the question because I realize I wasn't being vary clear.

I am interested in learning how to most effectively use a PGO shotgun. The purpose of this is not because I think that they would be awesome for home defense, I have a Remington 870 with a straight stock for that. I have two questions. the first is, where would I even begin to look for training in the use of a pistol grip shotgun? You guys are absolutely right, they are not ideal for HD, so most instructors wouldn't have anything to do with them, which makes the training search a little difficult.

Second, it seems to me that there are two styles of PGO's, ones with a regular forearm grip and ones with a vertical. I was wondering how much of a differance those made. In other words, would it be better to train with a straight fore end and use a vertical, or vis versa. The reason why I am asking this is because I think the greatest chance of having to use one of these would in a situation where it is somebody else's gun, so I would have no idea going in if it would be a vertical or horizontal fore end grip.

Thanks for putting up with this thread. If there is another thread that answers these questions, I did not find it, but I will keep looking. Please, in the future, tell me if I just asked the question in a really bizarre way and you need it clarified, or if it has already been asked, that way I won't waste anybodies time rewriting something that should be deleted.

Once again, thanks for everything
 
Waaay back when I was a kid,I had a thing for PGO shotguns.I now have one with the M16 style collapsible stock.in between,I've had the Choate fixed M16 style stock,and the ''FBI'' over the top folder.I've even had the ''Miami Vice'' fore and aft pistol grip set up.One of my best friends got a Spas 12 when they first came out.He was a pretty well paid body guard,so he could afford it.I couldn't,so I got the [then] new Mossberg Persuader,or Cruiser,or what ever it was being called back then [circa 1980 something] at any rate,a PGO 5 or 6 shot Mossberg with an 18'' barrel.My only shotty back then,and one of only five or six guns I owned,and since we shot every weekend,and sometimes more, I actually became fairly proficient in it's use.I know,the ''experts'' say it can't be done,but to save you a bunch of ammo,and some pain,I'll tell you how.First,use Winchester ''Featherlights'' [back then it was just whatever generic Field 8 bird shot was on sale at Big Five] no less a expert than Julian Hatcher said that at ranges of less than 20 feet, ALL sizes of shot left ''a bloody rat hole''.Next, try not to engage targets any more than twenty feet away.Lastly,PRETEND you have a stock on the gun and hold it that way.It's the best way to actually hit anything.And,hold it AWAY from your face.This will save you a broken nose.Yes, you CAN fire from the hip,to look cool,but your hits will be inconsistent,and you'll waste a lot of ammo in practice,and if you used it that way in earnest,you'd probably come in ''second'' in a gun fight.
So,if you've read all that,you are probably wondering ''why not just get a collapsible stock,use whatever shot or ammo type I want, and have the best of both worlds?''
Exactly.
 
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Your question seemed to me to be well thought out,and thats the best way to learn.I learned by sore wrists and a fat lip [remember the bit about holding the gun AWAY from your face?] Oh, and NEVER fire slugs from a PGO shotgun.
 
In my case, I also started out a long time ago using cheap bird shot to get the feel of the weapon. I have never used the vertical fore grip, so I have no comment on that...I started using the fat, commercial wood fore-end which came on my Mossberg. Eventually, I switched to the skinny rat-tail grooved cheap plastic fore-end, which worked better. I now use the Hogue overmolded fore-end, which is the best of all.
In any case, I always apply a good solid forward push on the fore-end to mitigate recoil and control the weapon.
My load of choice is full power 00 buck 2 3/4 8-pellet Remington, which I have shot at ranges out to 25 yards. I have also shot standard slugs with it out to the same range, achieving center hits on the standard silhouette target. If you have any reasonable amount of hand-eye coordination, and muscle memory, you can learn to hit from the hip at close range...In all cases, a high hold is better, with the shotgun held where it would be with a conventional stock tucked under your armpit.
Good work and proficiency can be achieved with any of the pistol grips. I have posted a pic of the Speedfeed grip I use, and which I feel is superior to any of the other three, more conventional grips I have tried. Particularly since it allows full use of the Mossberg safety, but just as importantly, because it shoots much better.
Since your screen-name is "kayak-man", I will point out that a sea-kayaking friend of mine found his PGO Mossberg fit the bulkheaded rear compartment of his kayak very well...I never used mine for that, being satisfied with a handgun and occasionally augmented with, a Springfield M6 Scout 22Hornet/410ga survival gun. That friend, by the way, likes to carry his PGO Mossberg (known for the last 30 years as "Mr Moss") slung under his field jacket along with a Browning HiPower, and he is a very good shot with both.
 
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I got a pgo shotgun passed down to me from my grandfather and expected it to collect dust after reading so much negative crap about it. Don't believe any of it. Here are the good/bad things I've found from getting a bunch of use with it:
First off it needs the verticle foregrip to be shot and aimed accurately. You aim down the barrel like any other gun, but lock your arm gripping the slide so that it stops the gun from recoiling into your face. Obviously start with birdshot and work your way up to get it down and ensure the grip can handle all the recoil. If your doing it right your trigger hand should feel fine and your off hand should hurt like hell after a few boxes of shells. It would look similar to this, but the added grip makes it much less of a gamble with the dentist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bCWcumvKA8
Shooting in this manner your accuracy really should be exactly the same as a stocked gun, absolutely nothing changes. Where you notice a difference is speed of getting the correct sight picture and actually manupulatng the gun. Racking the slide is slower, and reloads are also slower since you dont have the stock to help support the weight of the gun in one hand when you insert the shells.
On to the sight picture problem. When you have a stocked shotgun your familiar with once you get a cheek weld and the proper grip the top of the rear sight should pretty consistantly line up with the bead, so you just have to get the bead on the target and pull the trigger. With the PGO shotgun you don't have the consistancy of a shouldered gun, so you have to be aware of getting both of them lined up a bit more.
The overal size difference is great. It really doesn't appear that much smaller but when you start trying to find places to put it that are reachable should you need it quickly but isn't going to make visitors uncomfortable (I live in CA) it makes a huge difference.
Overall if you like shotguns and enjoy recoil I can't really think of a better way to spend $200-300. Is a stocked gun better? Yes, in almost every way. But the PGO shotgun is so much damn fun to shoot a lot of times it's the only shotgun I bring on range trips. Anyone who doesn't like these just hasn't gotten the aiming down the barrel technique down, because obviously shooting a gun you arent aiming is going to get old fast.

I'd say since a shotgun is pretty much necessary for anyone into guns, and a pistol grip and foreward grip together probably wouldnt cost more then $40-50, why the hell not? I can think of much less fun ways to spend that much money.
 
I've don't know how anyone manages to get themselves smacked in the face with a PGO shotgun, even when using buck and slugs. They just aren't that hard to hold out there.

My first experience with a "PGO" {actually folded stock} shotgun had me embarrassingly missing my closest target a short distance away with that tenative first shot from the hip.

Then after realizing that the recoil was nothing like I expected I brought it up to eye level, looked down the sights and proceded to clean up that target set. Ammo used was Federal 000 along with Remington and Fiocchi slugs.

That first shot from the hip was more for the benefit of my wrist than trying to save my face, in fact I'd never heard of anyone getting hit in the face by shooting a PGO at eye level before.
 
I've don't know how anyone manages to get themselves smacked in the face with a PGO shotgun, even when using buck and slugs. They just aren't that hard to hold out there.
Click to expand...
You wouldn't think a person with a two hand hold on a Springfield XD 9mm would drop it either.

There are people in the world that simply defy the odds.
 
Had a guy at the range loose his new PGO shotgun literally over his head three times in a row and then he had to go bye-bye!

I guess one can limp-wrist anything and now I'll finally say it: I believe these are the guys who rail against PGO shotguns.

Al
 
I believe these are the guys who rail against PGO shotguns.
Click to expand...

Oh... is that so? I've posted many times before that I ran a PGO on my mossberg 500 for TEN YEARS. Fired Brenneke 3" slugs 1-handed off the bench without complaining. Fired 3" 00 Buck and lots of slugs at paper targets. Never hit myself in the face. Fired thousands of birdshot loads at flying clays with the gun held up directly in the line of sight (not against the chest or hip) and never lost control of the gun or suffered any discomfort.

Then, I got serious about improving my skills, times, hits, and range and ditched the PGO for a factory buttstock.

"I'll finally say it:" PGO's suck. Not because they're uncomfortable, dangerous, or uncontrollable. Just because they are a LOUSY compromise for VERY little gain compared to a full stock. And that comes from someone with experience.

Now, who was it again who rails against PGO shotguns, Al?

-Sam
 
Oh Thtop it Tham...

...you thilly thavage.

"Uncomfortable, dangerouth or uncontrollable" to fellath like you. Not that there'th anything wrong with it. And uthing 1911 in your name, the ultimate limp writht handgun, wath a dead givaway -- it ain't gonna butch you up. Justh come out and admit it -- a PGO shotgun ith too muth for you and it took you a decade to figure it out. Oh Kay! You'll finally feel better about yourthelf.
;)
Al
 
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Why oh why do we already have another PGO shotgun thread with arguing taking shots etc. lol PGO threads always seem to go south.
 
Almond;
You mean going "thouth," and don't you thtart with poor weak-withted Tham1911 too!
lol
Al
 
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lol, Al sorry to disappoint but just cause I'm from Tennessee doesn't mean I talk with a deep accent and sign my name with a X. I'm very edumacated, I learnt writhing, scpelling, and reding in elementrary.
 
This thread is teetering on the brink of the Abyss of Closure.

Do we really need yet another PGO thread?....
 
PGO 12 gauge?
I recommend reduced recoil buck and slugs. It's an up close and personal set-up. Might as well use the shells that work best up close and personal. Better control of the gun would make this option a viable one. Kinda like icing on the cake.:D

FWIW, my PG resides in the gun parts/junk drawer. Doesn't mean it won't work for others. Just not my cup of tea.

Try RR loads and see if they work for you. Couldn't hoit!:)
 
I'll believe PGO shotguns aren't worthless the minute I see someone successfully attend a defensive shotgun course with one, or failing that, when I see someone run one at even a local-level 3gun match shooting it well enough to place middle of the pack or better.

Vodka, go ahead and stay home perfecting your effiminate lisp, the rest of us will be at the range, putting lead on target.
 
I say close this thing now. All PGO threads degenerate into low road, even (sometimes ESPECIALLY) in the comments coming from Moderators.
 
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