Another retread.....Prof urges gun controllers to get the support of gun owners....

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hillbilly

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Here's a column in the Salt Lake Tribune.

It's just another coat of lipstick on the same, tired old pig.

It's another reiteration of the "gun safety" mantra......the "sensible gun control" argument.

The key to gettng gun control passed is to package it in a way so that gun owners will swallow it.......surprise, surprise, surprise....

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_3802658


Reconstructing the Second Amendment
By Saul Cornell
History News Service




Few issues in America are more controversial than guns. Yet even among hot button topics in American public life there is something perverse about the dynamics of the debate over guns.
Polling data for decades have shown that most Americans favor stronger gun laws. Indeed, surveys demonstrate that such policies are even supported by most gun owners. Yet pundits and political soothsayers have written off this issue because it is perceived to be a loser at the polls.
Gun rights and gun control have long histories. Although both sides in the great American gun debate have claimed to have history on their side, each has presented a version of the past that is highly selective. One of the many embarrassing truths about the debate over the right to bear arms that neither side wishes to admit is that gun rights ideology is the illegitimate and spurned child of gun control.
Efforts at gun control, particularly policies aimed at broad-scale prohibitions of firearms, have generally led to an intensification of gun rights rhetoric and activism. Understanding the history of this tangled relationship, one of American history's more bizarre examples of ideological co-dependency, may provide some insights into how we might move this debate forward and break this cycle.
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's recent summit on gun violence reminds us that this is not the first time in American history that gun violence and gun control have been on the minds of New Yorkers. DeWitt Clinton, mayor from 1803 to 1815, bemoaned the problem posed by handguns almost 200 years ago.
As long as there have been guns in America there have been regulations governing their use and storage. Without government direction there would have been no body of Minutemen to muster on the town greens at Lexington and Concord. If the Founders had imbibed the strong gun rights ideology that drives today's gun debate we would all be drinking tea and singing, "God save our gracious Queen."
Ironically, the Second Amendment does not prohibit robust gun regulation, it compels it. Today's gun rights ideology is antithetical to the original understanding of the Second Amendment and only emerged in the 19th century when individual states began passing the first gun control laws to deal with the new problems posed by hand guns.



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There is much to be learned from America's first gun violence crisis and the first gun-control movement. It is not surprising that during that struggle gun rights supporters tried to lay claim to the Second Amendment by reinterpreting it as an individual right of self-defense.
This argument continues to be effectively employed by opponents of gun regulation.
Modern gun-control proponents have generally been embarrassed by the Second Amendment, viewing it as an anachronism. Early proponents of gun regulation did not make the same mistake. Rather than dismiss the Second Amendment as a remnant of America 's revolutionary past, they venerated it, reminding their opponents that the Second Amendment was about an obligation citizens owed to their government and communities to contribute to public defense. They also staked out another right that has not been much talked about recently in this debate: a right to be free from the fear of gun violence.
What does all of this mean for the contemporary gun debate? Proponents of gun control must not demonize gun owners, particularly given the fact that most gun owners support reasonable gun regulation. Any solution to America's gun problem must have the support of gun owners.
Rather than abandon the Second Amendment and dismiss it as a relic of another era, supporters of gun regulation need to reclaim this part of our constitutional heritage. Supporters of regulation need to point out that liberty without regulation is impossible. The right to be free from the threat of gun violence deserves as much respect as the right to bear arms.

Saul Cornell, a writer for the History News Service, is a professor of history at Ohio State University and author of "A Well Regulated Militia: The Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America." Readers may send him e-mail at cornell.14osu.edu.
 
Reasonable gun control.

Sorry, professor guy. INTELLIGENT gun owners can quite easily smell the bitter-almond scent of the cup you're offering, and refuse to drink from it. They know better.
 
Actually professor, those 19th century gun laws were passed to deal with the "t roubles" caused by all those newly freed black folks. An unarmed man can't very well defend his right to speak, vote, own property, or otherwise 'pursue happiness'.

Guncontrol is just as morally bankrupt now as it was then.

I find the Second Amendment to be extremely reasonable. No further controls are needed.
 
They also staked out another right that has not been much talked about recently in this debate: a right to be free from the fear of gun violence.

I'm sorry, I don't recall that one. Which number was that again?
 
Which Amendment was it.....

that mentions the "Right to not be afraid of gun violence". Is that the 16th amendment or the amendment that also says "Thursday shall be free raspberry smoothie day"?
 
Efforts at gun control, particularly policies aimed at broad-scale prohibitions of firearms, have generally led to an intensification of gun rights rhetoric and activism.

He's talking about when the British Army tried to seize cannon, powder, musket and balls from the colonial militia, only to find themselves at the receiving end of American musket fire...right?

It must have been those 'gun control'/'anti-militia' efforts that prompted Thomas Jefferson (great American rhetoric writer that he was) to write:
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." - Thomas Jefferson

Or that other rabble-rousing 'gun rights activist', Patrick Henry:
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun. - Patrick Henry

Are people on the left and the great American apathetic so dumb that they just accept whatever history their leftist 'scholars' attempt to sell them?
 
I remember that name, Saul Cornell. Isn't he the head of some large university research program funded by the Joyce Institute? I seem to recall that it was another one of those groups pretending to be pro-2A while really just trying to repackage the same tired lies from the GFW crowd.

Ahh ha - found it. He's the director of the Second Amendment Research Center at the John Glenn Institute at Ohio State.

http://www.osusentinel.com/?page=section&section=008&id=00210

Edit to fix link
 
One more imbecile following in the footsteps of disgraced Michael Bellesiles.
 
I've been reading all the arguments of the gun debate for years, and, other than the reek of gun-grabbing BS, I can't tell for sure where he is coming from and where he is going. It almost seems his argument is "buy a full-auto M16 and put 1000 round in the X ring from 100 yards per year or go to jail!"
 
Another pseudo "intellectual" who clamors for the goal of the left wing bleeding heart liberals... their "Great Brave New Marxist Socialist Police State Utopia."

L.W.
 
Prof. Saul Cornell is tainted goods, he is a Joyce Funded shill for the forces of organized gun bigotry.

His role is to provide them with an academic fig leaf.

I find the pains he takes to carve out a stance of faux neutrality to be particularly offensive.

At the end of the day, we can dismiss him out of hand, but the problem is the general public won't.
 
I think he is the "intellectual" who is pimping the idea that the 2nd amendment was writtten to appease the slave owninng South. It was only so whites in the south could have firearms to suppress the slaves. This guy is a diehard lefty... He makes me angry. John Glenn is also a raving gun grabber and lefty. Remember a few years back when he punched that guy. He got off. I think he also went ballistic legally aganist some land owner who owned or shot guns on some property next to him. I think he won that case.
 
As long as there have been guns in America there have been regulations governing their use and storage.

Really? I would love to see the regualtions from the 1790's on gun storage :rolleyes:

NukemJim
 
I like this:

They also staked out another right that has not been much talked about recently in this debate: a right to be free from the fear of gun violence.

What about my right to be free from the fear of car accidents? Free from the fear of lightning striking me? Free from cocaine addiction? Free from heroin addiction? Free from a hit and run? Free from a stabbing? Free from a terrorist bombing?

All of those things are things we cannot control. However everyone has a right to those things. Unfortunately these rights are not granted to you by the Constitution. So if we have the right to be free from the fear of gun violence we must have the right to be free from the fear of auto accidents.

I hate when people use stupid arguments. It makes no sense. Do you think the author feels that way about the 1st Amendment? That we have the right to be free from hate speech? Or free from extremist religions?
 
right to be free from the fear of gun violence

Fear is an internal state.

Fear can be rational, irrational, prompted by external realities or inner demons.

There is no right to be free of your internal psychology.

You do have a right to privately deal with your internal psychology.


I have no duty to assist you in this matter.
 
Saul Cornell should start reading his local police blotter. Maybe he'll realize that gangbangers and MS-13 are the threat, not law-abiding gun owners. The real danger in the emerging Narco-America today is the complete breakdown of the law, a nation de facto run by warlords.
 
i read the article, but as it turns out, didn't really need to. this is why. anyone who uses the words 'reconstructing' and constitution in the same sentence has already betrayed his true intent.

hold on to the quotes from the founders, hold on to the constitution, copy them and keep them safe like monks of old did with holy scriptures, and preserve them for the future generations, because people like this seek to change history. they wish to bury these truths, and treat them as if they never existed.
 
Beware of anyone who couches arguments in terms of "freedom from."

The very idea of rights is based in the principle that humans are rational actors. A thing is defined by what it does, therefore arguments about rights must be couched in terms of "freedom to." Only the active principle has meaning when discussing activity.

"Freedom from" is a way of masking social control/engineering in faux-libertarian terms.
 
Actually professor, those 19th century gun laws were passed to deal with the "t roubles" caused by all those newly freed black folks. An unarmed man can't very well defend his right to speak, vote, own property, or otherwise 'pursue happiness'.
The proposed 21st. century gun laws will be needed to keep the Americans from resisting the invasion from the south of the Mexican border.

Pilgrim
 
Does anyone wonder if the purveyors of these gun-grabbing attitudes or the authors of these anti-2nd Amendment articles ever stumble across these forum threads and have been made to realize that we are intrinsically more intelligent than they are?

I am consistently impressed by many of the responses to these nonsensical items of editorial trash that appear here day to day, to be exposed and systematically flayed open by our keen logic and understanding of history.

Keep up the good work.
 
Prof urges gun controllers to get the support of gun owners
And why should they use this approach? Because it works!

To wit; the 1934 Act, 1968 Act etc. Trigger locks, "CCW permits". Etc. Many gun owners - led along by their "defenders of the 2nd Amendment" - now think these things are all "sensible". A "good idea".

See, the professor is not suggesting anything new to the gun controllers. They have been doing it all along.

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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Creeping Incrementalism: I've been reading all the arguments of the gun debate for years, and, other than the reek of gun-grabbing BS, I can't tell for sure where he is coming from and where he is going. It almost seems his argument is "buy a full-auto M16 and put 1000 round in the X ring from 100 yards per year or go to jail!"
Indeed, therein the fatal flaw in his position -- the non sequitur that requiring militia members to keep arms somehow implies a power to take them away.
 
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