Anti-Gun Motive One Reason for Mass Shooting at Louisville Bank

[KyJim]

In April of this year. a 25-year old man shot and killed five employees/co-workers at a Louisville bank. One police officer received serious injuries and spent three months in the hospital and police shot and killed the murderer. Police have now released a report on the murder spree and referred to notes and journals the POS kept. He called himself a "psycho" and had been hospitalized for mental problems. A news report states: "In the end, Sturgeon said he had two goals – kill himself and 'stop gun violence to send a message to politicians.'” It's hard to follow this logic but I guess that is why he considered himself a psycho--no moral conscience and if a few people died to in the pursuit of stricter gun laws, so be it.

The news report is at: https://www.whas11.com/article/news...esto/417-0750f796-7ec5-410c-a1bf-09789c1f7dd7 and it contains a link to the full police report.

 

[Some_Mook]

There is no valid motive for acts of insanity. Nothing justifies the act. There is no reason other than a deranged mind.

 

[GEM]

Most active shooters have what they think is a prosocial motivation. Making a statement to change society in some manner. Perhaps a lesson, perhaps to point out how they were treated and showing that society should not do it again. Along with that you get suicidal ideation in many.

Pretty standard analyses of such folks. Whether they actually are driven by the cause (if there is an explicit social-political one given) isn't always clear or the 'cause' just channels their action. Could be any cause that catches their psyche.

 

[Ignition Override]

Revenge is seriously underrated .

It also helped justify the start of WW2.

 

[Howland937]

The guy obviously gave himself a lot of credit in his manifesto, which means he knew what he planned to do was wrong. He pointed out that he was able to buy a gun despite suffering from depression, with little effort. He then chose to commit this act as a means to protest his own actions. Mental illness for sure. Blaming everyone else because he sucked at life, but knowing he was damaged and still refusing to get help. That's not the fault of any of the people he targeted or the entities he was protesting, and only other people who are detached from reality would think it is.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Leftist antis are worthless nutjobs. No surprise here.

 

[230RN]

In April of this year. a 25-year old man shot and killed five employees/co-workers at a Louisville bank. One police officer received serious injuries and spent three months in the hospital and police shot and killed the murderer. Police have now released a report on the murder spree and referred to notes and journals the POS kept. He called himself a "psycho" and had been hospitalized for mental problems. A news report states: "In the end, Sturgeon said he had two goals – kill himself and 'stop gun violence to send a message to politicians.'” It's hard to follow this logic but I guess that is why he considered himself a psycho--no moral conscience and if a few people died to in the pursuit of stricter gun laws, so be it.


The news report is at: https://www.whas11.com/article/news...esto/417-0750f796-7ec5-410c-a1bf-09789c1f7dd7 and it contains a link to the full police report.

Let's not gloss over that very significant statement and it is not hard to follow this logic at all.

It indicates what we have hinted at here and in other places: that many of these shootings are designed to foster anti-gun sentiment --either by the shooter or possibly by his influential "handlers."

While there is little hard proof of that , it is something we should not dismiss or ignore as mere "theories," but look at it as a valid possibility whenever one of these incidents occur.

While some disagree, my "take" is that the antigun faction is not above fostering such incidents for the sake of negative publicity.

They are much smarter at public relations, good or bad, than we are, unfortunately.

Terry, 230RN

 

[KyJim]

It indicates what we have hinted at here and in other places: that many of these shootings are designed to foster anti-gun sentiment --either by the shooter or possibly by his influential "handlers."

It is certainly an indication that some believe the result outweighs the means. Disregard the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and the right to meaningfull self-defense.

 

[General Geoff]

Most active shooters have what they think is a prosocial motivation. Making a statement to change society in some manner. Perhaps a lesson, perhaps to point out how they were treated and showing that society should not do it again. Along with that you get suicidal ideation in many.

Becoming evil itself to prove that evil must be addressed is a very, very old trope. The mass shooters want people and media to focus on their instrument of choice when it is in fact the killer mindset which must be addressed, not the implement of destruction.


The problem is that the freedom to keep and bear arms demands individual responsibility. That is not something which these deranged individuals are capable of, and they project that incapability upon everyone else.

 

[N555]

That's why that guy shot up new Zealand a few years ago. Hey wanted gun bans, gun and mag confiscation, more police militarization, ect and he got it. Why wouldn't we expect to see more copy cat mass killings for that reason?
Gun grabbers like to look for ideas overseas, remember how "the drawing or files of how to make a machine gun is a machine gun" push we have seen? That seems to be another imported idea.

 

[CapnMac]

It also helped justify the start of WW2.

Sort of. Will depend on who you cite, and where you measure the "start."
Japanese started operation in Korea & China in 1933.
Italy's adventures in Ethiopia were in '34.
The Germans, of course, technically started things up in September '38 in Poland (but an argument can be made for the annexation of the Sudatenlande).
US involvement, officially, in December 1941, clearly, yes.

Which is the problem with all things human, the synopsis may not include "all the things," all the important details. Which then can engender mostly pointless arguments about expediency versus deliberate inclusion/omission.

Our world would be a much better place if common sense were more common.

 

[SunnySlopes]

He called himself a "psycho" and had been hospitalized for mental problems.

Seriously? What's the mystery? Whatever morons rendered insane asylums obsolete should themselves be incarcerated. We need to reopen asylums and start cleaning up America.

Thing is, that's going to empty out ~25% of political offices and that's the hold up.

Who cares "why" some nut case shoots up a bank? Or a day care center? Or a Christian school?

All we need to know is that civilization is under attack by our latest protected class: the insane. Get rid of them and problem solved.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

Let's not gloss over that very significant statement and it is not hard to follow this logic at all.

It indicates what we have hinted at here and in other places: that many of these shootings are designed to foster anti-gun sentiment --either by the shooter or possibly by his influential "handlers."

While there is little hard proof of that , it is something we should not dismiss or ignore as mere "theories," but look at it as a valid possibility whenever one of these incidents occur.

While some disagree, my "take" is that the antigun faction is not above fostering such incidents for the sake of negative publicity.

They are much smarter at public relations, good or bad, than we are, unfortunately.

Terry, 230RN

This kind of garbage caused the families of Sandy Hook victims a wretched additional hardship of being attacked by gun owners as liars and child murderers.

There are few conspiracy theories more pernicious and harmful than the ‘false flag’. It requires no proof, is an attractive out rather than coping with reality and leads to some crazy actions as we’ve seen.

 

[230RN]

Necessary_Nutrient remarked,

"his kind of garbage caused the families of Sandy Hook victims a wretched additional hardship of being attacked by gun owners as liars and child murderers.

There are few conspiracy theories more pernicious and harmful than the ‘false flag’. It requires no proof, is an attractive out rather than coping with reality and leads to some crazy actions as we’ve seen."

Acknowledged as having been read.

Terry, 230RN

 

[Hartkopf]

So this is proof of an antis false flag. He used guns in an attempt to get guns banned, and wrote about the intent. It is not a conspiracy theory.

How many other shootings are the same anti false flag, but without spelling it out? Should we assume this shooter was a one off and this sort of thing has never happened before?

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

In the absence of evidence, we should refrain from making things up, spinning wild theories and presenting them as likely facts.

Isn't that what we accuse the anti's of doing? Is embracing it wildly really where some of you want to go?

Post-Sandy Hook happened. People were tormented by bad actors inflamed beyond reason or rationality and the seeds of it are pretty easy to spot.

 

[nettlle]

....such a noble cause.

 

[Hartkopf]

In the absence of evidence, we should refrain from making things up, spinning wild theories and presenting them as likely facts.

Isn't that what we accuse the anti's of doing? Is embracing it wildly really where some of you want to go?

Post-Sandy Hook happened. People were tormented by bad actors inflamed beyond reason or rationality and the seeds of it are pretty easy to spot.

So who is “spinning wild theories” or “making things up?” The article quotes the shooters own writings. Are you suggesting the media is making up things the shooter wrote?

A THR member asking if this has happened before (a shooter killing people in an attempt to get guns banned), is not spinning any wild theory.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

Both of my responses were specifically directed at posters who speculated that there were probably “handlers” possibly directing this and other shooters. Thats conspiracy 101.

I‘d agree that this specific murderer appears to have posted Anti-gun leanings but there’s a BIG difference between this and suggesting he was some sort of plant/false flag. Conspiracist logic is tiresome because there is no refuting it. It takes on a life of its own and is dangerous for those reasons

 

[nettlle]

It's media sensationalism. Not going to make any sense because the media is not required to do so. Sad for those that were hurt that this idiot got caught up doing this.

 

[230RN]

Necessary_Nutrient, you really ought to read my remarks more carefully.

Amusingly, it's almost as if you're accusing people (including me) of conspiring to create false flags where none exist.

Note the bolding.



I'll lay it out again: this killer's remarks, as reported, indicate that he was indeed creating an incident in part to foster anti-gun sentiment.

I call that a false flag operation.

I noted that this was something we should be paying attention to and not simply dismissing, since it provides some concrete evidence of something we had merely been hinting at on and off --a "wake up call," if you will.

You may dismiss my remarks as "garbage" and conspiratorial, that's your right.

I call it a valid warning of the possibilities of false flag operations, either independently of anyone else, or in this case by a demonstrably disordered mind possibly influenced by others... my postulated "handlers," if you will.

Note the underlining.

Frankly, I'm bored with this one, and you are welcome to your opinion that my thinking about possible tactics and strategies is "garbage."

I do appreciate your remarks, but please read more carefully.

Terry, 230RN

REF (Link to my original):
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...oting-at-louisville-bank.925230/post-12765594

 

[N555]

Necessary_Nutrient, you really ought to read my remarks more carefully.

Amusingly, it's almost as if you're accusing people (including me) of conspiring to create false flags where none exist.

Note the bolding.



I'll lay it out again: this killer's remarks, as reported, indicate that he was indeed creating an incident in part to foster anti-gun sentiment.

I call that a false flag operation.

I noted that this was something we should be paying attention to and not simply dismissing, since it provides some concrete evidence of something we had merely been hinting at on and off --a "wake up call," if you will.

You may dismiss my remarks as "garbage" and conspiratorial, that's your right.

I call it a valid warning of the possibilities of false flag operations, either independently of anyone else, or in this case by a demonstrably disordered mind possibly influenced by others... my postulated "handlers," if you will.

Note the underlining.

Frankly, I'm bored with this one, and you are welcome to your opinion that my thinking about possible tactics and strategies is "garbage."

I do appreciate your remarks, but please read more carefully.

Terry, 230RN

REF (Link to my original):
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...oting-at-louisville-bank.925230/post-12765594

Remember sirhan sirhan fired 12 or 13 shots from an 8 shot revolver but there's no conspiracy.....

 

[Howland937]

seeds of it are pretty easy to spot

Alex Jones, anyone?
Sure conspiracies happen. Is this a large operation or a lone wolf? Maybe we'll never know. Fact of the matter is, this guy was disillusioned enough to believe he should commit this act as a means of furthering an agenda HE believed in. Whether fabricated in his own mind or convinced by an outside party and trained up, HE did it. He bought in, he fired the shots, he left the obligatory journal and outline of his plan/reasoning/gripes.

We have the who, when, where, how, and a good portion of the why. What is what's debatable. What makes certain people with mental illness resort to violence while most are non violent? What makes white dudes seemingly more susceptible to behave this way?

Bear in mind that this may be the only instance on record where the shooter was self-proclaimed anti 2A. In most other cases, the hatred is based on race/ethnicity or a real (or perceived) very personal slight.

 

[230RN]

Remember sirhan sirhan fired 12 or 13 shots from an 8 shot revolver but there's no conspiracy.....

I did a little checking on that, not to support anything I said above, but just out of curiosity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

Very interesting either way. It is gun related: forensics; but only as a side note, and it is somewhat related to the OP.

<grin>
It almost seems like there is a conspiracy to forcefully squash anything even remotely resembing a conspiracy theory,
</grin>

Terry, 230RN

 

[N555]

I did a little checking on that, not to support anything I said above, but just out of curiosity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

Very interesting either way. It is gun related: forensics; but only as a side note, and it is somewhat related to the OP.

<grin>
It almost seems like there is a conspiracy to forcefully squash anything even remotely resembing a conspiracy theory,
</grin>

Terry, 230RN

The bad guy never got within 5 or 6 feet of RFK and the fatal shot was fired from about 1 inch distance but there's no conspiracy....
If you say there's a conspiracy you're spreading Russian propaganda, now where have we heard that one before?