Anti universal background check Oklahoma Senator sounding stupid

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Add in a true compromise by allowing people to register NFA WW2 to Nam machine guns, repeal Hughes, and then I might listen to the background check ideas. Without that, I'll leave things the way they are and not entertain the anti gun idea of so called 'compromise'.
 
at the end of a long day....

If we could get fences, burglars, drug dealers, smugglers, criminals, family and friends of criminals, etc. to run background checks and refuse to transfer firearms to persons who don't pass, THEN we might impact gun crime.

2011: 80,000,000 gun owners, 430,000 gun crimes per year.

2011: 6,220 handgun homicides out of 112,000,000 handguns or 1 in 18,000.

Should the criminal justice system focus on crime?
Or should the criminal justice system focus on gun owners?
Resources are limited.
Canada decided to repeal its long gun registry 2012.
New Zealand repealed its gun registry in 1983.
But as Adam Winkler points out, FDR's 1934 dream of a US registry of all guns remains unfulfilled, his legacy incomplete. It is a dream he had.
 
There is no black market for handguns? How do they get them in Chicago?
They're illegal in the city ... require a FOID in Illinois, and federal law regulates interstate transfer. How do Chicago criminals get them? Isn't this a failure of gun control?
 
Gary Kleck has published studies that there is no organized black market, which some folks persist in representing as no black market.

Well, there was no organized rumrunning in America, just some disorganized moonshining and bootlegging, until the Prohibition Amendment and Volstead Act made rumrunning profitable enough to attract organized crime gangs.

There is disorganized black market traffick in guns--fences and drug dealers who deal in other contraband--no national organisation. Yet. But the folks who gave us Prohibition and the War on Drugs are working on it.
 
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I am a gun owner and I support universal checks.
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You may not be a gun owner for long then.

Coburn was in favor of Background checks. Inhoffe was totally against them. Coburn voted for all the anti gun bills to be debated. He also voted for cloture so that Reid's bill could be debated.

I think Coburn is your style of Senator being in favor of UBC's and all. You probably wouldn't like Jim Inhoffe though. He is an absolutists on gun rights and even passed a law here that says we wont enforce any Federal law that is unconstitutional.
 
...where do stolen guns go?

They often go to gun using criminals (often the one who stole the gun does not want to be caught with it). And according to Wright and Rossi ("Under the Gun", "Armed and Considered Dangerous") they are often fenced like stolen DVDs or video games to otherwise ordinary citizens who don't question used "bargains" that are priced too low to be legit.
 
Motion to BAN this troll!
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Let's keep this place The High Road, that means removing argumentative low roaders.
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Not at all.
Low Road would be to ban a member for voicing opinions that fail to toe the ideological line or conform to the majority stance.
High Road is summoning fact and reasoned argument to oppose those opinions.

That's what makes this The High Road.

Tinpig
 
Tinpin

I agree with you.
Read some his other posts I feel you will find a serious lack of "reasoned argument" which is the key to any argument, that is the problem. Even in this thread he has made no argument, other than the crazy no black market guns statement, he has 3 short, pointless post in a 4 page thread the HE started.

I encourage debate, but not engaugeing in pointless bickering with someone that is trying to stir up...........fecal matter.


Sorry, but that's how I see it.

We can disagree, it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm not a Mod, lol
 
Carl N. Brown again fills a thread with facts...

You and I really should shake hands someday...We've probably passed each other in those crowded isles at the gun shows many times over the years.

On topic,
I don't have much to add except to reiterate that he made some very good points in his posts.
 
I oppose UBC not because of the 2nd Amendment but because of Article 1. Where does it say the Federal Government has the authority to regulate a private, intrastate sale to my neighbor?
 
Criminals won't comply with a UBC to obtain a firearm.
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Not only that, but we have stare decisis to unequivocally state that it would be a 4th & 5th Amendment violation to require criminals to participate in a UBC and/or Registration scheme.

And that is just the de jure legis ergo, rather than logica legis, whereby a person with mens rea to be an armed criminal would be deterred by the possibility of perjury?
 
That $7 argument is weak as well. How much do you think it will go to after the first yr? What would keep the antis from turning it into a poll tax to mak gun ownership more expensive? It's all BS and I am not buying into any of it. I am in the 96% of NRA members that oppose any big brother activity during a gun sale.
 
Just a point of fact.

There is no need for the law to require a 4473 to be created for private background checks, unless the goal was to create a national registry using that data at a later point.

Yes the FBI is currently shredding its data, and its currently illegal for ATF to make a national registry... But as long as every transaction has a 4473 a complete registry is just a law away.

I am not opposed to background checks. I insist on them when I sell a firearm. However I'm opposed to any system that collects data that could be used for a national registry/confiscation list. It is possible to generate a system that makes people safer, and does NOT erode rights, sadly politicians are opposed to reason.

A system that allows checks on a state level using state IDs for both employment and other checks that prevents the state from knowing what the nature of the check is.
 
In order to understand where Coburn is coming from read the current Time magazine article about the 100 most influential Americans. Note the author of the Coburn writeup. The author is president Obama: Coburn and president Obama are close friends.
 
Not at all.
Low Road would be to ban a member for voicing opinions that fail to toe the ideological line or conform to the majority stance.
High Road is summoning fact and reasoned argument to oppose those opinions.

That's what makes this The High Road.
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It is good to see that some do understand how we view such things here! :)

We will NOT ban someone for expressing an opinion or asking questions -- even if they think the opinion may be unpopular, or if they believe the questions may be "tough" ones.

If nothing else, such a thread gives us a useful sparring "dummy" (the thread, NOT the poster! :D) to practice battering around. If all we do all day is sit around telling ourselves how right we are, that's not very effective. Exercising our arguments and PROVING why we believe what we do is very useful.

...

Having said that:

If you suspect someone is deliberately "Trolling" -- DON'T waste your breath and our space calling them a troll. 1) You're probably wrong and 2) If you're right, so what? You think they'll throw up their hands and say, "Awww, ya GOT me!" :rolleyes:

Just hit the report post button and ask the Staff to handle the matter. Thanks.
 
A quick check of his posts proves he isn't honestly disagreeing.
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That would be a perfectly acceptable thing to put in your REPORTED POST comment to the Staff.

Doesn't add anything to the public conversation, though.
 
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