Antipiracy SHTF for a fisherman?

[BullpupBen]

Don't professional piracy boats usually have crew of men and machine guns mounted to it? I don't think anything you can legally buy here is going to be of much use.

In Somalia where many are well-trained and diciplined that may be the case, but around Mexico/Carribean it's more gonna be guns they could buy on the black market down there.. so no .50 cals as they would be too big to sneak home. I imagine that their weapons would range from sawed off shotguns and pistols on the low end, to AK-47s and G3's for the more wealthy baddies. And I'm talking about the real thing, not the civilian versions.

 

[Jeff White]

The reports I've seen about the Somali pirates say they are armed with automatic weapons and RPGs. There are security companies that provide armed crews for merchant vessels. I would imagine that their getting a lot of business right now.

One thing for the private citizen to consider is that in many ports in the world, even a 12 gauge shotgun can get you prison time and your boat seized. In most cases all the suggestions about weapons are sort of moot, since you can't have them in port in much of the world.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Somewhat hard for me to understand how the the folks on the supertankers are losing to the folks in the inflatables. Guess I just don't know enough about it.

I think that the idea is that they have RPGs/mortars, and you're sitting on top of the world's largest Molotov cocktail going at 10 knots.

Mike

 

[.38 Special]

Aye, but I understand there's a bit 'o steel between them and the cargo.

To be perfectly honest, I suspect that it more cost effective for a large international company to take the risk and buy off the occasional pirate than to put effective security details and armament on every ship.

 

[Horsesense]

You try and hide a gun in the wrong port and get searched.... think about 10 years in a Mex akin prison.

That being said, get 4 auto loading 12ga, loaded with slug (speed loaders with 00, for close in work), you build a mount for them and have cams and a crank handle (perfectly legal in the us) to operate the trigger, if you have to use it in international waters just chuck on a cordless drill and you have a quad mount 12ga auto.

Ps: send me lots of money and I will build it and test it out for you.

PPS: Just get an Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr15

 

[RPCVYemen]

Aye, but I understand there's a bit 'o steel between them and the cargo.

A friend who was in the Navy providing escort to tankers told me - if I recall what he said correctly - that an RPG (or some other fairly small weapon) could potentially put a hole in the hull of a commercial vessel.

Does anyone know if that makes sense?

Mike

 

[Shung]

no doubt it would !

 

[waterhouse]

I've done a decent bit of offshore sailing, and I've had the opportunity to practice shooting from a boat deck. It is very difficult. Even on a fairly calm day boats move quite a bit.

If it were me, I'd heed the warning of making sure the guns are legal where you are
a) planning on going
b) might have to make an emergency stop

Don't think you are going to hide much from most customs officials. While there are many really great hiding places on a lot of boats, customs probably knows about them, since all they do day in and day out is check incoming boats.

After checking legalities, I'd pick a 12 gauge. Or two. In theory I'd go cheap (we used old pawn shop wingmasters covered in RIG) but if you could find one a magazine fed Saiga would be pretty decent at the task.

The best thing you can do is be alert to other vessels getting into your comfort zone.

 

[zombienerd]

As a Merchant sailor, I have a LOT of experience in this area...

If you are only going to be pulling into the exact same port repeatedly, then you may carry weapons on board that are allowed by the port you are in. Many ports will not allow weapons through the gate, which is why many Merchant vessels are being taken over without opposition. Many host countries will not let vessels dock at their ports if they have even a single weapon on board, but some will allow minor small arms, such as shotguns.

My company has recently invested in the LRAD (Long range acoustic device) which has been shown to work as a deterrant, but if a pirate really wants to get your ship, they will just come back wearing really good hearing protection and thick clothing to combat the LRAD.

Most of the pirates operating in the "hot zone" (Off somalia and india) are armed with AK47's, RPGs, and various other small arms, some boats even having 50BMG machine guns mounted.

If a pirate cannot take a vessel, they have been known to just blow it up with the RPG's, or at least blow part of it off.

I doubt you're fishing in the "hot zone" so I don't think you have *too* much to worry about, but if you want the best protection available, grab an LRAD, grab a few shotguns, and a few semiauto rifles, as well as a few pistols for your crew.

You wouldn't know that a closing vessel is a pirate until they are in small arms range anyway. Most vessels don't know a pirate is coming until they're actually along side attempting to board.

Just my .02 on the subject

 

[Shung]

from http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/tos/ :

PRIVATEERS!

Indeed, if some enterprising billionaire were to offer the funding to equip a mini-fleet of privateer vessels (instead of pissing it away on nonsense like Alleviating Third World Hunger—which sounds wonderful, but achieves nothing), I think I’d volunteer right quickly to crew one of them. My gout-induced lack of mobility is irrelevant on board a ship, and what I lack in seamanship and such, I will more than make up for with weapons prowess, and bloodthirstiness which would make these so-called pirates look like a bunch of Baptist Sunday-school teachers.

But, but, but, we need to understand the root causes of their piratical behavior. Afte that we must negotiate with them in good faith.

Either that or we blow their butts out of the water using the rule of engagement to “shoot first; ask questions later.” Sure, we might kill a few innocents, but in that part of the world, how many true innocents are there?

 

[Speedo66]

Ship's crews also do piracy drills with fire hoses. They either try to swamp the boats by filling them with water, or try and blow boarders off the deck with high pressure hoses.

They also run 24 hour deck security watches in high risk areas.

 

[mbt2001]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6nm-6eCzM&feature=related

 

[myrockfight]

Pirates

Something I wanted to add. Everyone talks about the Somali pirates, and those operating off the coast of Africa.

I've been sailing my who life. My Dad sailed competitively and for giggles, mostly in the Carribean and the Gulf. He always carried a .30-06, pump-action, or an M1A and a shotgun.

My uncle had a ~60ft. Hatteras and always carried a FAL in .308. and a HK pistol.


Most sailors I know in the Carribean are decently armed. I don't think I would use anything smaller than a .30 caliber rifle. Probably a .308.

You don't hear much about the "Pirates of the Carribean", but they are out there. They just aren't operating on a scale like they are in Africa because of the presence of Coast Guard/Navy or other government entities.


It really grinds me (for some reason) to hear what they are doing over there in Africa to passing boats. It is a huge/expensive problem. What the frieghter companies need to do is outfit ex-Navy boats for escorts with .50s or .5 inch guns (something along those lines) that are relatively cheap.

I know they are using armed security teams on the boats though. Hopefully, that will be deterrent enough. Some of these boats have expensive cargos. But as the larger cargo boats will be covered and protected, the pirates are going to shift to the smaller, less protected luxury liners and private yachts.

Those can avoid the area however. They don't "have" to go through to get supplies, etc. to certain ports.


Did you guys hear about the pirates who were dying on a boat that they took over? Supposedly, the Iranian cargo ship had chemicals on it (or something else that would make you loose your hair, teeth, etc.). I'll bet the pirates and the Iranians were regretting that one. It came under international scrutiny. But I don't know what the conclusion was.

 

[zminer]

Did you guys hear about the pirates who were dying on a boat that they took over?

Interesting. I wonder what they were carrying:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,430681,00.html

 

[yeti]

ARRrrrgg,

Mr Bush, Mr Brown! Beat to quarters, sand the decks, and roll out a few 32lb guns, and them scurvy bilge rats will strike their colors, in double quick time.Then it will be time to open a bottle of Port and play some Whist, and a double ration of grog for the men.


sorry. not many pirates around here, I got to go through Horatio to participate.

 

[Frog48]

You're pretty much screwed if you get jumped by pirates. No lone individual or small group of recreational boaters with small arms will be able to fend off real-deal pirates.

 

[BBQLS1]

As a Merchant sailor, I have a LOT of experience in this area...

If you are only going to be pulling into the exact same port repeatedly, then you may carry weapons on board that are allowed by the port you are in. Many ports will not allow weapons through the gate, which is why many Merchant vessels are being taken over without opposition. Many host countries will not let vessels dock at their ports if they have even a single weapon on board, but some will allow minor small arms, such as shotguns.

My company has recently invested in the LRAD (Long range acoustic device) which has been shown to work as a deterrant, but if a pirate really wants to get your ship, they will just come back wearing really good hearing protection and thick clothing to combat the LRAD.

Most of the pirates operating in the "hot zone" (Off somalia and india) are armed with AK47's, RPGs, and various other small arms, some boats even having 50BMG machine guns mounted.

If a pirate cannot take a vessel, they have been known to just blow it up with the RPG's, or at least blow part of it off.

I doubt you're fishing in the "hot zone" so I don't think you have *too* much to worry about, but if you want the best protection available, grab an LRAD, grab a few shotguns, and a few semiauto rifles, as well as a few pistols for your crew.

You wouldn't know that a closing vessel is a pirate until they are in small arms range anyway. Most vessels don't know a pirate is coming until they're actually along side attempting to board.

Just my .02 on the subject

Good post!





I'd think you'd want an RPG!

 

[statelineblues]

Saw a report a few months ago on the piracy problem in that area - it turns out that some of the pirates are actually gov't officials of Somalia and Yemen. They look offical, because they are - and take over the boat once they get on board. I believe China/Indonesia recently executed a couple of port officers who were involved in the highjacking/murder of a transport ship and crew.

A friend who was in the Navy providing escort to tankers told me - if I recall what he said correctly - that an RPG (or some other fairly small weapon) could potentially put a hole in the hull of a commercial vessel.

Does anyone know if that makes sense?

Yes, it does - cargo ships aren't built like battleships. The thicker the hull, the more energy it takes to push it thru the water. For that matter, most ships have thin hulls - The suicide bombers that blew a hole in the USS Cole were in a 2-man zodiac (IIRC).

 

[JDoe]

A little more info on pirate attacks can be had here...

Live Piracy Map 2008

This map shows all the piracy and armed robbery incidents reported to the IMB Piracy Reporting Centre during 2008. If exact coordinates are not provided, estimated positions are shown based on information provided. Zoom-in and click on the pointers to view more information of an individual attack. Pointers may be superimposed on each other.

 

[jackdanson]

Depending on budget I'd say one barrett for you and one m1a for each passenger. Throw on a couple pump shotguns in case of boarding. The barret could take out an engine if neccessary.

 

[7.62X25mm]

Commercial ships are using loudspeaker systems which will make the pirates nauseated and disoriented. Electrified barbed wire barriers around the hull. High steel walls on the deck rails. And armed guards.

Pirates have been photographed with RPG 7 -- which will blow a hole in the hull of a ship.

I'd think a "general policy" that in open seas if you're approaching a commercial freighter, you're viewed as "hostile" and subject to being fired upon. Radio communication can buffer this policy.

Then I'd get on board with 50 BMG and RPG 7. Air support would be good.

 

[Zoogster]

Pirates are quite a real problem that until the latest media covered hijackings of oil tankers and arm shipments went relatively unreported.
The biggest hotspots in the world are off Somalia, as well as portions of Southeast Asia. Indonesia and Malyasia are some problem areas.

Closer to the US off the coast of Venezuela and Columbia the danger of piracy is high. Some regions of Central America can pose a little danger as well.

The thing is, while the pirates MAY hijack you if you cannot defend yourself with arms, the governments of most of the world WILL throw you in prison for a long time for bringing firearms into port.
Even a regular 12 gauge as Jeff White mentions, is a big no no.
Weapons capable of battlling well armed pirates with Automatic weapons and RPGs is even worse.

It is nearly impossible to travel the world as a vessel unable to enter territorial while providing for your own protection.
Very close to the US, just traveling into Mexican or Canadian waters with a firearm, or even just rounds of ammunition can get you a prison sentence, nevermind actualy going into port.
So you have to decide to be an illegal smuggler of illegal weapons (that is what you are if you are hiding even weapons for personal use, and illegaly entering foriegn territories) with long prison sentences hanging over your head to be capable of defending yourself even while in international waters (as you normaly need to enter waters of various nations to travel.)

Further many pirates comunicate with local fisherman, and some are even connected to the local LEO, or have a mutual understanding. In fact in SouthEast Asia the local Maritime Security forces are often believed involved in or connected to a significant portion of acts of piracy. So thier Coast Guard is actualy in on many of the acts of piracy.

The pirates watch radar, and track passing vessels until they see an opportunity. They also communicate with local fishing vessels in the area. They then speed out on Zodiacs and other cheap high speed vessels to intercept foreign targets.
A single piracy brings in a sizeable sum of wealth, so they can afford even more tools to do it better in the future, and bribe local LEO/military.

If you did manage to defend yourself, it is quite likely the local nation's version of the Coast Guard, often part of thier military will be sent to intercept you when news of the event reaches them.

 

[mljdeckard]

Understand, this fades from reality to fantasy pretty quick. I don't see myself ever doing personal boating outside of U.S. waters, and if I did, it would NOT be off the coast of Somalia or other high risk areas. (Indonesian islands, the outskirts of the Carribean, etc.) This is one of the situations where if I ever thought I NEEDED to be heavily armed, it would be much better not to go there in the first place.

I'm really feeling the need for a variety here. For defense ON BOARD, start with marine model stainless shotguns, I'm sticking to 00 buck for this case. Sidearms for all crew, I'm suggesting either stainless or polymer. A certain amount of defensive team training and daily maintenence times will be required for the crew.

For defense immediately outside the vessel, It gets heavy really quick. You will need overwhelming force if you want any chance at all of repelling determined boarders. Full auto, drum and/or belt fed weapons. High volume, armor piercing. If this were in the international environment, I would look for some RPKs and AKs. Grenades would have a place in this.

Beyond that, I have no idea what laws dictate the circumstances where you are able to fire defensively or at what range, but since the OP asked specifically about SHTF, imagine Waterworld rules. You know who your friends are, everyone else keeps their hands up. Twin 12.7s on the bow, if your craft is large enough to handle them. API ammo. To engage at any significant range, you will need a high volume of fire to hit anything.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

This is kind of an odd question.

Nope it's not, actually. Anti-pirate boat guns have been discussed many, many times on here.

If you're shooting boat to boat, the sea makes you bounce around hurting accuracy, so you need volume to make up for lack of accuracy - think AK47 style with 75 round drums, or high-cap .308 or better yet, frame-mounted machine gun.

If you're shooting on your own boat against a boarding invader, then your target is bouncing around in direct relation to you so any standard CQB arm is good: tactical style shotgun or intermediate cartridge rifle (M4, etc).

I'd also want some hardcast lead 1 oz+ 12 ga slugs to put into their hull if they are on a small vessel, so that if they do rob you and leave and happen to leave you alive, their boat will slowly sink. If they kill you, maybe you can die with the satisfaction of knowing you've sunk them.

 

[rogertc1]

Marlin stainless lever action Guide Gun 45-70?