Antipiracy SHTF for a fisherman?

[statelineblues]

Don't want hijacked, and more importantly want legitimacy to excercise "maritime law" then stay out of their waters. In the meantime, I don't have much sympathy for any boat that strays into their waters as essentially you've entered their domain and put yourself at their mercy.

Seized in the Indian Ocean some 500 miles (800 kilometres) off the African coast, the Sirius Star is now anchored at the Somali pirate lair of Harardhere, according to local officials.

Sorry - NO country has a 500 mile exclusion zone...

 

[BrianB]

I know of somebody with 2 big boats in the Caribbean. They have EVERYTHING on board.

 

[bearmgc]

Better that we be vigilant for more acts of terrorism in the US, ie. new president, who appantly isn't as well received by others outside the US, as we thought. We need to be more watchful around utility structures, natural gas and gasoline suppliers and holding, transfer areas. Let's be a little more realistic about this. Yet another reason to buy an EBR. Did we forget?

 

[BHP FAN]

The real weapon of the pirates is fear...and an RPG.Have you noticed in every picture of these Somali pirates,at least one of them has an RPG. Lets say we're on a tanker and armed [most actually are not,as thier countrys of origin may have restrictions against it,and if not the territories they pass through may have laws against,or seriously restricting the use of them] and you look down to see a speedboat circling around you with an RPG pointed at your super tanker full of gasoline,or natural gas.You know that most of the time the company pays the ransom,and the crew lives.Or,you could go all Steven Segal on thier a**,annoying the fellow with the rocket propelled grenade,tipped by a shaped charge,capable of turning a bit of your steel your hull into a white hot jet of gases and molton metal...anyone see the problem here?

 

[FourTeeFive]

If you stay out of USA waters you could have all sorts of interesting armament. How about this:

http://www.dillonaero.com/content/p/9/pid/1/catid/1/Standard_M134D

 

[BHP FAN]

I think you'd best stay out of anybody's waters with that!Seriously cool.

 

[Telumehtar]

That's ridiculous. Look up the meaning of "civil war." It does not include theft from third parties.

Again you must not have studied your history too well, or understand the dynamics of the situation in Somalia.

In the American Revolution, the Continental congress issued Letters of Marque to have privateers sieze merchant ships and provide arms, and supplies to the continental army and insurgent revolutionaries. The French specifically had a pass from these privateers because they were funding, and supplying our revolt. The English(our enemies) along with the Dutch, Hessian, and several other nation's ships were all fair game(and coincidently all happened to be French rivals economically or militarily).

The issuing of Letters of Marque continued even after the Revolutionary War as the US needed to increase it's force projection into the oceans immediately, and was incapable of fielding a proper navy. It wasn't until the US became a contender on the seas that Letters of Marque stopped being issued. Furthermore, any sailors caught by the British who came from these privateering vessels were not accorded POW status, but rather criminals of the high seas, and were enprisoned seperately with the high expectation that they were to be hanged.

Simply put, we robbed third parties during our revolution and even after our establishment as a nation. There was a reason that the British empire during the 19th century referred to Americans as brigands, theives and scoundrels.

In the case of Somalia, the money gained from Piracy is not the end all of the game being played over there. Certainly the ransoms are useful, and the pirates and towns rising up around those pirates are doing well, but the Islamic government currently in "control"(I say that loosely) is deliberately allowing and even secretly encouraging pirate activity in order to garner international attention. If anything it allows the Islamic Courts Union to highlight the weakness of the UN appointed Transitional government, which in turn grants legitimacy, and possibly funding and negotiations between the UN and the ICU. A prime example of this are reports of pirates docking in the Southern portions of Somalia where the Al-Shabaab "The Youth" permit their presence.

What's even more fun, is that there are also links between the the current Transitional UN appointed government and the pirates. The earlier Fox news link had one such example pointing out that Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed of the provisional government might be trying to use piracy in conjunction with fabricated "thefts" to make Somalia a more central part of the War on Terror (which in turn would lead to more funding and military backing to the UN appointed government).

So you see piracy, in Somalia anyways, is a very integral part of the civil war that is occuring over there. Is it black mail to the rest of the world? Certainly. Is it pulling in "innocent" third parties, most definitely. But then, isn't that similar to the bargain we struck with France during the American revolution. France had a vested interest in seeing the colonies break away from Britain, and in return we privateered against France's military and economic rivals and had some cushy trade relations with them in the years following, including the Louisiana purchase.

 

[Matrix187]

MG-3, or MG 42

 

[grimjaw]

Gotta think it'd be less expensive for them to sink your fishing boat than sell/ransom it.

jm

 

[Zoogster]

and an RPG.Have you noticed in every picture of these Somali pirates,at least one of them has an RPG.

An RPG on the open seas is a close range weapon with only one shot (if facing armed opposition.)

If you are 500 miles out to sea, in a well equiped large vessel, you clearly see any vessel approaching miles before they arrive, both through instrumentation and visualy.

You cannot outrun the high speed boat, but you can look out at it, attempt to hail it, and if there is no response from what is clearly not an ocean going vessel that far at sea, freely open fire.

While bobbing around and you are just a dot on thier horizon, use of the RPG would be a serious chore. High volumes of machinegun fire will cause them significant trouble.

If a high speed boat with less than 100 mile range is closing in on you 500 miles out to sea in waters known for piracy, you don't need to wait until they are close before you know they are a threat. Further, the large vessel will be much more stable in the seas. Allowing for easier aiming than from the speedboat bouncing around.
So the advantage goes to the large vessel unless they let the smaller vessels get close.

 

[DRZinn]

"But we did it, too" changes nothing. Third parties are third parties.

 

[RyanM]

For repelling boarders, how about a flamethrower? Give them some real incentive to jump overboard.

Actually, it might not be that hard to have a pile of tools and junk lying around, which might escape inspectors' notice, that could be assembled into some kind of flame projecting device. For emergency signalling purposes only, of course. Tank o' kerosene (emergency fuel), propane torch (emergency welding and repairs), some kind of compressor (inflating life rafts in a hurry)...

 

[Telumehtar]

"But we did it, too" changes nothing. Third parties are third parties.

Well for one it completely deflates your rebuttal. Two, it also shows that your limited definition of "civil war" and "revolution" does not cover the realities involved with prosecuting either of those, as exampled in several historic cases, along with the current example of Somalia. Basically it means you are incorrect in your assertion.

Furthermore, I never said that I supported the pirates, or thought what they are doing is right. What I specifically stated was that I think they were in the wrong due to certain nuances in the way they are prosecuting their campaign(hijacking ships beyond their waters being a big one), but that ultimately they are committing these wrongs in response to wrongs done to them. If we truly want a just resolution to the piracy problem and more broadly the Somali problem we have to correct not just the pirates, but the original criminals who violated Somali waters, and deprived those people of their livelihoods. Until that occurs, they have no reason to cease being pirates because as it stands, despite increased international pressure, piracy is paying off pretty damn well for them.

 

[DRZinn]

Well for one it completely deflates your rebuttal.

Not in the slightest. A tangential activity that sometimes occurs coincident to a civil war or rebellion does not then become part of what a civil war or rebellion is.

ultimately they are committing these wrongs in response to wrongs done to them

Which is entirely irrelevant to the question at hand. Again, if you rob me and I, in response, rob my neighbor, that is not retaliation, justified or otherwise.

 

[dexter11]

Personally I think a couple of Barrett M107's would do nicely on the water...

 

[BHP FAN]

''An RPG on the open seas is a close range weapon with only one shot (if facing armed opposition]...''
Zoogster,you make a coupla very good points,but the RPG ,while it is a single shot it is not a one use weapon,and is fairly quick to reload.
Also,while I was in the Navy we tried to hit 55 gal. drums bobbing in the water with machine guns,for target practice.It's surprisingly hard to do.

 

[ericyp]

Which is entirely irrelevant to the question at hand. Again, if you rob me and I, in response, rob my neighbor, that is not retaliation, justified or otherwise

I think he's just pointing out that, if the problem is piracy then we should get to the problem itself rather than dealing with the symptoms of the problem-the pirates. Because they will continue to do so and new pirates will continue to patrol. Instead of swatting the mosquitoes in your yard when they try to bite you, it's more effective to get rid of the standing water they're coming from. Telu, your insights are appreciated by me anyways.

 

[BHP FAN]

And it's a good point.Still,to discourage pirates a few warships camoed as ''cargo ships'',armed to the teeth [kinda the same concept as Air Marshals] might be a good idea.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Some of the 12-gauge specialty rounds might be handy (especially if you happened to have some glass containers full of flammable liquid available for throwing):

http://www.firequest.com/catalog/showcase_item_4.html

 

[FourTeeFive]

A while ago there was an incident with a cruise ship where pirates threatened it. The captain of the cruise ship merely kept going full throttle. It took some hits but accomplished one thing; it is VERY hard to board a boat that is in motion. Eventually the pirates gave up.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

Last night on Fox news, it was reported that several of these shipping companies are considering hiring Blackwater teams to put on their boats. You can pretty much guarantee that these pirates would get lit up by Blackwater, they would never be allowed to board the boat.

 

[Jeff F]

To have half a chance at stopping a pirate attack like the ones around Africa it would take at a minimum a M2 .50 cal or two and one of those 40mm auto grenade launchers and a lot of luck. Those guys are well armed with automatic weapons and RPG's. Unless you can engage in a big way and from a distance they will blast you out of the water.

 

[TAB]

jeff ever try to fire a weapon from a small boat at speed in the open ocean?

Even hitting something the size of a tanker is not easy, let alone hitting a person on said boat.

 

[bonez]

Dillon M134 is your answer

If I had the lives of a crew as my responsibility and were concerned about pirates, the Dillon M134 would be at the top of my list. Now selling them to "collectors". 4000 rounds/min. 4000 round magazine. Mounts for anything you may want to put them on. Amazingly small for what they are.

 

[Ignition Override]

I chatted with a boat owner at a Bass Pro Shop ammo aisle, whose boat was boarded about 0200. This was totally unexpected, and I don't know how large his boat is.
He offered no info about what the drug gang took etc or near which island(s), but I suspect it was the Bahamas or Jamaica etc.

Not wanting to embarass him with nosy questions, he said that he was taking a shotgun next time he returns to whichever country in the Caribbean, although their laws do not allow this.

Once they surprise you at either very close range (why would they want to make noise? they could use paddles), maybe already on your deck, it can be your last decision to pop up out of a hatch with a gun in your hand.

This was the idea of a famous bicycle racer who was in the Caribbean a few years ago.
He might have assumed that the bad guys were unprepared or were unarmed, or were plain stupid, although they had every tactical advantage on a smallish sailboat. He was already in their sights when he came up with a gun in hand, as they were on deck, and he did not survive the most important decision of his young life. The small article was in a fairly recent "Outside" magazine.

Good luck with your decisions.

Telumehtwar: Many of the French still feel that we have never properly thanked them for helping us win the Revolution, but so many Americans assume that our gigantic sacrifices in WW1 and 2 is the entire story of such ingratitude.