Anxiety Over 6 Year Old Learning Handguns...

[edji-x]

I have a family of my wife, 1 girl, 2 boys. My daughter is currently 6 and my boys are 2 & 1. Over the last couple months, my daughter has been expressing increased interest in shooting. When she was younger, we attempted to teach her a CO2 bb pistol. My wife and I both have semi auto's, with CCW permits, a 9mm and 45, respectively. So, my daughter is saying she wants to shoot, "a real gun. Not a bb gun." I can follow her logic.

So, my problem lies in my wife wasn't really brought up in a home with guns, and I haven't exactly had the best experience with guns, although, I do love them. I accidentally shot a flint lock muzzle loader in my house at age 4-5, my parents knocked the powder out of the flashpan, and it was legally considered unloaded. Right up to the point of me, having watched how to fire it, was playing with it unattended. I wasn't allowed to touch guns until I was older, then had a 357 magnum and a 30-06 put in my hand, expected to be a marksman at 10-11 years old. It didn't end well. Also, after having 308 and 30-06 ammo on a bench, my father fired a 308 out a 30-06.

So, I really don't want that repeated. I have a couple developing friendships that may help me with this. I don't really know much about firearms, except from what I've deduced from my own experience about safety, knowledge, and common sense. I feel comfortable with my knowledge of firearms, but the prospect of teaching my daughter brings a lot of anxiety.

Since my daughter is interested at what seems like a too young age, I've asked around, and was told by a certified gun instructor that this is a perfect age to start. I don't feel satisfied by one person though. Legally, she's able to shoot at whatever age, and I feel she exhibits the proper mental capacity and maturity to safely operate a gun, given my obvious concern for safety with them, and the extremely close supervision. I've taken her to a large outdoorsman outfitter, and she's really interested in semi auto and revolvers. Rifles don't pique her interest at this point.

So, all of that to express this:

Given what I know, and experienced, I feel I either don't know, or maybe just lack confidence that I possess the necessary knowledge to teach her properly. If this is her hobby, I want her to learn it correctly. I want this to be a good experience, not a bad one, and most of all, safe.

What is making me nervous is I feel that there's probably a lot of safety things that I don't even know about handling guns, especially semi automatic pistols, which she's leaning towards. A professional instructor would be nice, but it's not financially possible, plus she wants daddy to teach her.

I guess what I'm asking is if what I'm going through is normal, any personal tips or tricks, anything constructive criticism/helpful advice about teaching her correctly. Also, I'm very interested in how to approach it, what to teach when, etc. Maybe a decent guide to doing this. Scouring the net, the only real clear thing I've noticed is almost everything I was taught added up for the perfect recipe for disaster.

One last note, I'm thinking about approaching it as, safety always through each step, first and foremost, and going something like, how to operate a firearm, how it works, how to care for it, and then shooting. I apologize if it's in the wrong thread, I figure that this thread may yield more specific responses to handguns, that may be pertinent. Thanks!

 

[Scimmia]

and I feel she exhibits the proper mental capacity and maturity to safely operate a gun

If that's the case, then this does sound like the perfect time. Start off with Cooper's Four Rules. Once she knows and understands all of them, a 22lr rifle is the traditional place to start and I would recommend that vs a handgun. More easily controlled, grip size isn't such an issue, and harder to forget and sweep the line with. If you started a poll here, I would expect the vast majority of us started with a 22lr rifle.

If you really have to go with a handgun, I would still suggest 22lr, and make sure to only load it one round at a time.

 

[bigfatdave]

http://www.corneredcat.com/Contents/

The Four Rules

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

When a child can explain the 4 rules and demonstrate them with a replica (pellet gun, airsoft) then it may be time to consider moving up to live fire


http://www.corneredcat.com/Is_Your_Child_Ready_for_the_Range/
http://www.corneredcat.com/The_First_Trip_to_the_Range/

Start with airsoft, move up to a .22lr, then consider centerfire pistol

 

[EnglishmanInArizona]

I won't comment on a lot of your post as I don't feel qualified.

Six year olds (probably girls particularly) are old enough to tell fantasy from reality, so some exposure to dangerous objects seems reasonable. I was given my first Swiss Army Knife at 7, and after the basic "don't cut toward yourself" was set loose with it without supervision. First time I hurt myself with it I was 15 (and far more stupid than I was at 7).

How did the BB gun handling go? I wouldn't let her handle a real handgun until she handles the BB gun as if it is a deadly weapon.

I would also advocate a rifle before a handgun, taught prone, no loading until prone with muzzle downrange. Quite difficult to do something fatally unsafe in that situation, but still a good chance to teach basic marksmanship principles and weapon handling.

I know you want to encourage her enthusiasm by giving her what she's asking for, but don't underestimate how hard a kid will work to get something they want. Make graduating to a real handgun a big accomplishment for her and she will remember her first shots and the pride on your face for the rest of her life.

On the other hand, start out with you feeling anxious, and chances are she'll be nervous too (six year old girls have supernatural empathy, I tell you), she'll swing the muzzle some place she shouldn't and you'll yell. Not a good start, and possibly the end for a year or more.

If she's not willing to work for it - there is plenty of time yet.

Good luck with bringing her on, and kudos to you for even considering it at her age.

 

[EnglishmanInArizona]

Apologies - cross-posted with others saying the same thing.

 

[Ranger30-06]

.22 lr rifle all the way, better yet if its a single shot so you can eliminate every mechanical error possible.

That said, before she even had the gun in her hands, I would do the classic "fruit shoot" to show why we never point guns at another person. I believe this is one of, if not THE most effective way of teaching muzzle control to a child.

 

[Fat_46]

Great advice in here, and the same basic routine I followed with my daughter. After the 4 Rules were ingrained, she received her first rifle(a Crickett in pink). She showed proficiency and safety with it, and within a few weeks she was given the opportunity to shooy my Ruger Single Six. She loved it!

Be careful, though...my daughter is now 10, and we just picked up a Savage FV in 204 for her last weekend. It now "her" 5th firearm(only county the Rossi Trifecta as 1).

 

[Sam1911]

You're aware, and concerned. That's precisely what she needs. You won't make the same horrible mistakes others made with you, and so you will be able to help her succeed far more easily than you did.

Gun safety is gun safety. The four rules are absolutely the foundation of everything else that follows and she must have them nailed. This can be more frustrating than it should be as you're likely to see a lot of behavior at the range (in others) that does not uphold that standard. Stick to a habit of talking with her about each safety rule as you apply each one throughout your range sessions. ("Now we're getting ready to load the rifle. We're checking first to make sure the muzzle is still pointed downrange. Our fingers are off the trigger..." etc.)

Semi-autos make things a little more complicated, but only in that the unloading and clearing procedure is more involved. Practice it until you can't get it wrong ("Unload" -- drop the mag, "show clear" -- retract slide/bolt and visually ensure that the chambered round is removed) and as with all the other safety rules, TALK her through what you're doing as you perform the steps, and through what she's doing as she performs the steps when it is her turn. Saying it out loud as you do it keeps you on track, makes sure she's following you, and reinforces the safety procedures until they're worn-in tracks in your mind that become habits you won't deviate from.

 

[Sam1911]

Some thoughts I wrote in other threads, just offered as points to ponder:

First off -- congrats on being a concerned and responsible parent! This is a very important question.

My principles on the matter are these:

1) Never, ever hide your guns or your shooting habits/hobbies/activities from your children. Always be completely open with them and answer any question and allow access any time they show interest -- no matter how young. Every time a kid wants to know something -- tell them. Every time they want to touch a gun, help them to do so (safely). Hiding things just screws up what should be a wonderful part of your relationship, and sets the stage for confusion, mistrust, and sneaking around as they get older.

2) Every opportunity to answer a question and help them to touch and explore your guns is a critical teaching moment to instill the four safety rules. Show them your own rigorous safety practices, teach them to follow the same, and GUN-proof your kids, rather than trying to KID-proof your guns.

3) Shooting can start as soon as the kid shows interest. My daughter and oldest son were both pulling triggers at age 3. I say "pulling triggers" as they were sitting in my lap, with my arms around them and my hands over theirs, controlling the firearms. But they wanted to, they were not scared (and certainly were not PUSHED into it), and making the guns go bang was always a reward for being able to recite a safety rule or two. FIND SAFETY GEAR THAT'S KID-SIZED! It is available, pretty easily these days, and must fit them well to do its job.

4) Everything is at the child's pace. No reason to rush or push them into shooting, or to make them continue at it for one second longer than their interest and enthusiasm holds out. Better to leave 'em wanting more than to tire them out, bore them, or (heaven forbid) make them frightened or hurt by the guns.

My two school-aged kids both started sitting in my lap, with my hands over theirs, shooting .22 pistols at 3 years. Then AKs. Now that my daughter is 8 she prefers my 629.

Every step has to be REQUESTED by the kid -- I won't push them an inch farther than they're comfortable going -- and they aren't shooting the guns on their own. At that age they aren't in control of anything but the trigger itself. Even in later years my teaching style is VERY physically close. Kids can't be completely in control and responsible for the safety issues. They need to learn them and understand them, but the adult has to be in absolute control of the weapon at all times. It just isn't fair to place a child in a position of responsibility for life and death events.

(Yay, another excuse to post my favorite picture! ) This is my daughter and I when she was seven. She'd been shooting occasionally for several years at this point and has a little experience and confidence, but my position here in the safety/supervisory role is still very close and focused. Also note her solid, weight-forward stance and proper grip form. If you can teach those to your daughter they will go a long way to her meeting with success.




Good luck!

 

[moxie]

Agree you can start her out learning the rules.

Beyond that, though, you've repeatedly expressed a lack of confidence in your ability to be her teacher.

And, at least right now, a professional is not in the budget.

So, for now, it might be best to hold off on any actual training until your skill and confidence levels increase. You can probably find others who will help you in this. Hey, she's only 6. Plenty of time.

 

[jad0110]

.22 lr rifle all the way, better yet if its a single shot so you can eliminate every mechanical error possible.

That said, before she even had the gun in her hands, I would do the classic "fruit shoot" to show why we never point guns at another person. I believe this is one of, if not THE most effective way of teaching muzzle control to a child.

I did this with my son, and can vouch for its effectiveness. I blew up a few melons, apples, water bottles, etc when he was 4 or so. Though he did giggle some (I explained yes, it can be rather fun), I also pointed out that the gun can do that do something you really care about. A friend, a family member, etc. He is 5 now, and when he sees me handling a weapon he is always quick to remind me not to point it at anyone (I don't of course, but the reminders are greatly appreciated ) .

 

[Mind the Gap]

Might I suggest picking up copies of Boy Scout rifle and shotgun merritt badge pamphlets? They are only a few bucks each and contain valuable information. My entire foundation for shooting is based on what I learned in the scouts. In addition, you could have your daughter complete the requirements for the badge to prove that she understands all the concepts to your satisfaction. Keep in mind, these booklets were meant to teach 12-18 year olds, so you will probably need to help her out with some of the more complex concepts and bigger words.

 

[rajb123]

My first gun was given to me at age 6.

Perfect time to learn gun safety.... rules are everything.

 

[BSA1]

I would strongly suggest the your wife, daughter and yourself attend a Young Hunters Safety Class sponsored by the NRA. With fall approaching they will start being offered soon.

A excellent way to impress on children that guns are not toys is too shoot a can of soda and a jug of water. The sight of the exploding containers will make a big impression.

 

[sargents1]

Sounds like you need training as much as she does.

Go get yourself into a couple of pistol classes. Not just the basic CPW class, but the somewhat more advanced classes that last a weekend or so. Then get yourself to a range and do some plate-shoot events, IDPA, etc. Build your skills and your confidence before you try to teach her.

Once you have done that, go out and pick up a .22lr pistol that she can shoot. Look into Ruger's SR22 or something like that, that has modern features. Manual Safety, Loaded chamber indicator, swappable grips etc. Work up from there.

Good luck and be safe.

 

[MARKMALL]

I think 6 is a very good age to start shooting. I do not think 6 is a good age to start shooting with a centerfire handgun! Like others have said, start her out on 22 rifle. A cricket youth rifle from Buds Gun Shop is only $111.00.

 

[Skribs]

It all depends on the 6 year old.

Personally, I think most kids are better off learning before adolescence, as opposed to during. They're more likely to listen and try to learn to what their hero wants to teach them, as opposed to prove that they know better than the old duffer who cares too much about these darn safety rules.

 

[edji-x]

Wow. I wasn't expecting such a response in that little time! So reading through, I'll summarize my thoughts.

Overwhelming the Cooper's 4 Rules. I've never even heard of them before. But, I can recall a bunch of times each were broken while growing up. Thinking back, I can remember applying these rules when I was shooting, so I guess I did that right, even though I did get in trouble for it....As far as reciting them back, I think that's an excellent idea. As I said, I'm taking a very strong approach to safety thinking about this.

The melon/soda/water bottle trick. You know, I've seen it on TV a bunch of times, but it never crossed my mind to show her that. Is there any that work better than others? Or maybe just showing the power of it over a broad range that works better?

I didn't mention this originally, but yes, she'd be starting at nothing more than a 22lr caliber. I've never shot a 17 HMR, but I guess they're about the same, and 22's are in easy stock, both firearms and ammunition. I like the idea of 1 round at a time. Again, I've always been if there's room for more, keep loading. I saw one of those 'motivational pics' one time of the A-10's 30mm minigun, captioned 'Peace through superior firepower.' That's pretty much what was drilled into me, and looking at firearms differently now, that's kind of a.....poor.....way to teach a child.

My anxiety and worry. That's an issue for me. For obvious reasons I could probably write a book about, firearms cause a certain amount of anxiety, recalling the events. Never having any proper training about safety, coupled with the past, leaves me second guessing every decision about firearms. I know before, I felt my knowledge was sufficient, but now, thinking at it as teaching my kid, I'm left wondering if I really do know enough. I'm extremely concerned about not knowing safety practices that maybe are firearm type specific or what have you. I am developing a friendship with a guy in law enforcement. He seems very knowledgeable in law and firearms, so, I'm hoping I can alleviate this issue.

Rifle, pistol, revolver. When I had her at the store, I showed her revolvers, pistols, and hunting and assault rifles, along with shotguns. My idea was, let her pick something she felt comfortable with holding. Every rifle and shotgun frightened her, but she did try each.

@Englishmaninarizona: When she shot the BB pistol, it was of her asking. She was 3, maybe almost 4. At any rate, as we explained to her safety, she did follow the rules set forth for her, better than I thought she would. But, we allowed her to shoot soda cans, and yes, she followed all of our instructions.

@Sam1911: Your posts intrigued me the most. For me, the honesty we try to instill in our children is important, and reading your posts made it clear that there's no reason it shouldn't be with firearms. Along with that, bringing up something else I didn't think about yet was the actions of others at ranges. I believe that will also play a role in her learning, as I remember it did for me. Albeit, it was a much better example in my case than what I anticipate with teaching my daughter, and probably my boys too.

Another thing that caught my eye was moving at their pace. I kinda had guns, and, well, everything shoved down my throat, resulting in poor views of things. So, that's why it's seeming like a pistol will be her first gun. Rifles and the like didn't interest her, and she acted very apprehensively around them. She did try them, and said they made her afraid. As she's never seen a rifle, I felt it prudent that she at least experienced them. The absolute last thing I wish to do is force it on her, as interests and hobbies of any kind, I believe are her choice.

As your post went on, I have 3 questions. First is the more complicated clearing of semi-automatics. I'm not comprehending your meaning. I've always been under the impression of, clear the gun means the magazine and chamber exposed, visual check of each, which seems almost identical to any firearm. I understand most operation of firearms, so it's not a 'this is the differences' type thing. Could you elaborate more on being more complicated with semi's?

Second question is "Kid-sized" safety gear. My first impression is some kind of trigger lock that a 6 month old can't swallow. I'm thinking that you mean stuff like youth sized hearing protection, safety glasses, the like. Which, for us, is more of a way of life. Buy what your child needs, as I would for myself, not what makes safety look good.

Third, what is a 629? I don't know much about firearm models. I've become more aware of safety features and such I want on a firearm, I never was much of a details person in that way....it's been go in, pick it up, see what I liked, didn't like, keep moving until I find one I really like.

I wasn't expecting such a large response, really. It's hard to fathom people genuinely caring about safety, and so many, for me. I also did not expect the knowledgeable and informative replies. It's actually quite nice to see safety is the main focus of most. I'm also grateful to see that her age area is around the general age most are introduced to guns. It seems now that I pretty much do take all the safety precautions, I'll need to build my confidence level more to teach her. Having never had any real experience with proper safety, self doubt, I guess, seems normal. Again, thank you all again for the ideas and knowledge, and any more information.

 

[basicblur]

Can't help ya much with the actual shooting, but she's at that age where curiousity may get the better of her.
When my daughter was younger, she was fascinated by my sportbike - I told her she was NOT to touch it (didn't want it falling on her), but any time she wanted, just let me know and I'd spend as much time as she wanted watching her check it out (but you better be prepared to drop everything and indulge them any time they ask).

It seemed to work great - I never once caught her or saw signs of her around it, although for a while she did ofent want me to show it to her / let her play on it.

I did come home one evening to find handprints all over it!
I asked her why she didn't wait for me to get home - she told me those handprints were granny's!

 

[Sam1911]

For obvious reasons I could probably write a book about, firearms cause a certain amount of anxiety, recalling the events. Never having any proper training about safety, coupled with the past, leaves me second guessing every decision about firearms.

I think most of us can relate with that to some degree or another. Safety issues were not the "big deal" they are now when most of us were growing up, and the more organic ("this is how grandpa did it" or "whatever I done thunk of myself") version of gun handling practices prevailed. My own young experiences were not so bad, that I can recall, but I was rarely availed of firearms most appropriate to teaching youngsters -- because they weren't readily available. Heck, my most memorable shooting teaching was shooting a 20ga. Ithaca37 pump shotgun sitting down. I was a very scrawny 5-6 year old and it hit me so hard I fell over. Not the best way to introduce someone, but here I am some decades later so...

For what it may be worth, it was competition shooting that brought the whole picture into focus for me. Meeting and participating with large numbers of people who were incredibly proficient shooters and who also took safety to be job number 1.0 was very eye-opening.

Rifle, pistol, revolver. When I had her at the store, I showed her revolvers, pistols, and hunting and assault rifles, along with shotguns. My idea was, let her pick something she felt comfortable with holding. Every rifle and shotgun frightened her, but she did try each.

This makes a lot of sense, but starting out some things will be better than others. My kids love the little Savage Cub rifle and the tiny Ruger Bearcat single-action revolver. I'm not going to subject any of them to something that will cause physical pain, or be too big/heavy a gun to handle comfortably.

the actions of others at ranges. I believe that will also play a role in her learning, as I remember it did for me. Albeit, it was a much better example in my case than what I anticipate with teaching my daughter, and probably my boys too.

This may be the highest hurdle for you. YOU have to be the expert, in her eyes. Not that you have to pretend to know all, or be infallible, but she can't look at Bubba and Tactical Earl on the next lane sweeping everyone with their muzzles and think they've got more on the ball than you. Learn enough to be confident in your own understanding, and don't be afraid to assert yourself on matters of safety.

As your post went on, I have 3 questions. First is the more complicated clearing of semi-automatics. I'm not comprehending your meaning. I've always been under the impression of, clear the gun means the magazine and chamber exposed, visual check of each, which seems almost identical to any firearm. I understand most operation of firearms, so it's not a 'this is the differences' type thing. Could you elaborate more on being more complicated with semi's?

You have it, I think. The point is that many firearms can be "cleared" in one step. A double-action revolver with a swing-out cylinder can be rendered safe simply by pressing the latch and opening the cylinder. A double-barrel shotgun can be "broken open" and it's safe. Etc. A semi-auto must be cleared by FIRST removing the mag and THEN extracting the live round. Forget a step and the gun is still "hot." Many people have negligently fired their weapons when they forgot to drop the mag BEFORE racking the slide, and so inadvertantly loaded another round!

Second question is "Kid-sized" safety gear. My first impression is some kind of trigger lock that a 6 month old can't swallow. I'm thinking that you mean stuff like youth sized hearing protection, safety glasses, the like. Which, for us, is more of a way of life. Buy what your child needs, as I would for myself, not what makes safety look good.

Exactly. Big-folks shooting glasses don't protect well and don't stay on. Foam ear plugs DO NOT fit in little people's ears. Get stuff made for their statures.

Third, what is a 629? I don't know much about firearm models.

Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum revolver. She's shooting milder .44 Special rounds in it, with minimal recoil, about like a .45ACP.

 

[rcmodel]

IMO: You need to buy a small .22 revolver like a Ruger Bearcat or S&W Kit Gun.

I taught Kansas Hunter Safety for years with kids that age up to teens.
And I'm here to tell you, an excited pre-teen and a semi-auto pistol is just looking for bad things to happen.

They can shoot, jump 2' straight in the air with excitement, and land going the other direction with a loaded gun pointed your way before you can blink.

You don't want that gun to be a semi-auto pistol with a light trigger pull and another round in the chamber!

The revolver adds an extra step of manually cocking the SA Bearcat, or a heavy DA pull on the uncocked S&W.
They are also much more convient to load one round at a time then an auto during the initial training.

rc

 

[danez71]

My anxiety and worry. That's an issue for me. For obvious reasons I could probably write a book about, firearms cause a certain amount of anxiety, recalling the events. Never having any proper training about safety, coupled with the past, leaves me second guessing every decision about firearms. I know before, I felt my knowledge was sufficient, but now, thinking at it as teaching my kid, I'm left wondering if I really do know enough. I'm extremely concerned about not knowing safety practices that maybe are firearm type specific or what have you. I am developing a friendship with a guy in law enforcement. He seems very knowledgeable in law and firearms, so, I'm hoping I can alleviate this issue.



Another thing that caught my eye was moving at their pace. I kinda had guns, and, well, everything shoved down my throat, resulting in poor views of things. So, that's why it's seeming like a pistol will be her first gun. Rifles and the like didn't interest her, and she acted very apprehensively around them. She did try them, and said they made her afraid. As she's never seen a rifle, I felt it prudent that she at least experienced them. The absolute last thing I wish to do is force it on her, as interests and hobbies of any kind, I believe are her choice.

This is good stuff right here. Just a few things I want to say so I dont write a novel.

Better for her to learn from you about firearm than from someone else that you dont know.

IMO, teaching her about firearms is as important as teaching her how to swim. At some point in her life, she will be around a body of water and a firearm with out you there. Give her the tools to survive both. I feel it was my duty as a parent.

My adult daughter really didnt have an interest in shooting until late late teens. But she learned about them starting early on. Slowly.... at her pace... she went from knowing what to do, or not do, around them... to wanting to go shooting. And I was there, not some stranger, to assit her through the journey.

 

[taraquian]

I have two girls, I bought them Cricketts at ages six and seven, they are now 8 and11 and will pipe up and TELL" bubba and Tactical Earl" to keep the muzzle downrange. If they wont my girls will ppack up and getin the truck. I wish that my son who started shooting at 9 was as focused...but my 1911 has him interested again.

As others have said, go slow, get equipment the right size and be the 'master'.

The Boy Scout books are a great idea, thats where I learned and its still good info. As a side note I use a semi auto for pistol training, I just only put one round in the mag, that way they have to get used to dropping the mag and racking the slide, insert other mag, charge and fire. It gets them used to the mechanics of the gun and itsbsafety procedures very quickly.

 

[.44 Associate]

The NRA does a pretty good job with training and instruction. http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp

They also have basic marksmanship courses (with heavy emphasis on safety) which can be administered by a six year old's proud father. http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp

 

[Diver9543]

This is an excellent forum. As a grandfather the information is of most importance. I have saved the links and look forward to reviewing the information so I can pass the info to my grandkids. The High Road and all concerned have again taken the initiative to stand out above all others in helping with a very important part of a child’s life. Anyone with firearms in the house that has kids needs to follow the steps of education. Even if the kids are not interested in shooting they need to know the information about firearms safety.

Like others, I started on a .22lr rifle. My dad would sit on the ground and balance it on his shoulder for me. Not the safest position, but we didn’t have a range with a bench rest. Dad would take me to one of the local area “chat piles” and we used Mom’s canning jars for targets. I was taught the 4 steps of firearms handling. To me they were common sense safety steps, just didn’t have a name. Again, thanks everyone for their valuable input.