MattShlock
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Mid 18th C. full-size swivel gun and coehorn mortar...
Any cannon owners here?
- Thread starter Glock19Fan
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elhombreconnonombre
Member
I have been doing some historical research concerning the cannons used in the defense of the Alamo. Apparently there were as many as 4 swivel guns and perhaps at least One large caliber Wall gun in addition to their large calibre cannon. I talked to a cannon maker at a local show to see if he could make a monkey tailed swivel gun, but eqipped with a removable mug shaped powder holder and wedge mechanism to hold the mug in place. This is an old design dating back to 1400 that allowed for quick recharges.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
My carbide cannon used a heaping half-teaspoon of calcium carbide, which the kids and I figured gives the optimal blast.
Hearing protection required!
Hearing protection required!
Here is what i have so far for mine. I figure ill start with about the same load as yours.My carbide cannon used a heaping half-teaspoon of calcium carbide, which the kids and I figured gives the optimal blast.
Hearing protection required!
Large section is 4" then down to 3" im going for a little deeper pop then yours i hope!
A little sanding on the edges and then the slealer to kinda give a "Weld" look to the sections and then the textured satin paint i hope gives it a sort of pirate kinda look.
I also got a little BBQ grill ignighter for the carbide detonation
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RetiredUSNChief
Member
Keep us posted on how it turns out!
It wont look near as cool as yours but ill still have fun with it.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
So long as you have fun with it, who cares?
elhombreconnonombre
Member
Bower64
I like the lines of that carbide shooter ya got there. Its got me to thinkin about making a removable mug breech loading propane powered tater launching swivel gun.
I like the lines of that carbide shooter ya got there. Its got me to thinkin about making a removable mug breech loading propane powered tater launching swivel gun.
Arizona_Mike
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- Feb 15, 2013
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- 3,452
I own two mortars and two thunder mugs and due to work and other issues I have yet to fire them!
I hope to remedy that soon.
Mike
I hope to remedy that soon.
Mike
Im just wanting to make noise.
theotherwaldo
Member
I used to buy Lyle line-throwing guns in San Pedro, California and sell them at various Oregon rendezvous. Double or triple my money. None of them stuck to me, darn it. Also had the barrel of a 2-pounder Indian chaser for a couple of months. Had to donate it to the local historical society when I had to move yet again.
I dont have the bangsite i ordered in yet but today i got in the grill trigger.
I kinda stole an idea from a few other designs i seen on youtube with a little rod mounted to the rear plug. I used hot glue and glued a 9mm shell to the end of the rod to hold and dump the bangsite.
I then glued the 2 electrodes to the end. It throws a nice healty spark about 1/4" long it should work good.
I kinda stole an idea from a few other designs i seen on youtube with a little rod mounted to the rear plug. I used hot glue and glued a 9mm shell to the end of the rod to hold and dump the bangsite.
I then glued the 2 electrodes to the end. It throws a nice healty spark about 1/4" long it should work good.
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RetiredUSNChief
Member
Looking good so far!
kBob
Member
Well if we are segueing into gas, how about LP? One newywears I had great fun with a friends tennis ball mortar that used LP. nice sound and net projectile. Note to self, remember not to ad lighter fluid to tennis balls to be launched with LP mortar unless you WANT local LEOs on scene.......
When I was at Ft Knox both times the salute cannon, mounted on a Sherman Tank of course, used LP for a blast that could be heard all over post. This was a large steel affair a fixed to the actual barrel of the Sherman. These were used before the Hoffman devices to simulate main gun fire. There must be designs in public federal records some where. Also at Knox we had Machine gun simulators that used LP and an automotive spark plug that we convincing enough to cause trainees to eat dirt. They sounded a lot more like an M2 HB .50 BMG than an M-60 firing blanks. Main use was for noise on the two man move out range. Besides being safer than real overhead fire it was cheaper, besides, one was in plenty of danger from the other trainee firing live ammo while you advanced......
Lucky me I got picked for a first run of the day before they ran out of quarter pound blocks of TNT in pits along the route......those things really can loosen fillings. Never though BP powered grenade and artillery simulaters were quite so bad after that.
Those PVC cannon are looking interesting. I used a Spud gun ta buddy made that had some PVC parts for a bit and Gasoline from a perfume atomizer for propellant. Got worries about the PVC getting brittle and wondered if PVC is x-ray transparent if it become grenade fragments.....
-kBob
When I was at Ft Knox both times the salute cannon, mounted on a Sherman Tank of course, used LP for a blast that could be heard all over post. This was a large steel affair a fixed to the actual barrel of the Sherman. These were used before the Hoffman devices to simulate main gun fire. There must be designs in public federal records some where. Also at Knox we had Machine gun simulators that used LP and an automotive spark plug that we convincing enough to cause trainees to eat dirt. They sounded a lot more like an M2 HB .50 BMG than an M-60 firing blanks. Main use was for noise on the two man move out range. Besides being safer than real overhead fire it was cheaper, besides, one was in plenty of danger from the other trainee firing live ammo while you advanced......
Lucky me I got picked for a first run of the day before they ran out of quarter pound blocks of TNT in pits along the route......those things really can loosen fillings. Never though BP powered grenade and artillery simulaters were quite so bad after that.
Those PVC cannon are looking interesting. I used a Spud gun ta buddy made that had some PVC parts for a bit and Gasoline from a perfume atomizer for propellant. Got worries about the PVC getting brittle and wondered if PVC is x-ray transparent if it become grenade fragments.....
-kBob
RetiredUSNChief
Member
You can use whatever you wish based on how you want to design the cannon. Using a gas, whether propane or otherwise, simply means that you need to design the cannon such that you can easily and conveniently add the gas, in proper and adequate amounts, to the firing chamber. This is why many spud guns use hair spray...it's simple and easy enough to unscrew a cap, squirt hair spray in for a count of however many seconds, and put the cap back on.
So what you really need to ask yourself is "How easy will it be for me to build and operate something that uses LP?"
What I like about using calcium carbide is that it's very easy to measure out identical quantities or to change quantities and get known, consistent results. It's also incredibly easy for me to ready the cannon for repeated shooting the way I designed it. All I have to do is pour a measured amount through the vent in the breech of the cannon and wait about 8 seconds or so. That's it...no fumbling with unscrewing a cap and screwing it back in afterwards. Push the firing button for the Earth shattering KABOOM, then run my ram rod in and out of the barrel three or four times to freshen the air inside, and repeat. It's absolutely that easy.
Periodically I flush the dirty water out of the reservoir through a built in drain valve and add clean water through the vent to refill.
One of the advantages of using calcium carbide, or other gas systems, is that it's inherently safer than using something like gunpowder. With gunpowder, you can directly scale up the explosive result by continually increasing the amount of gunpowder...the only limit is literally the volume of the cannon itself. But this has serious issues:
1. You can quite easily increase the amount of gunpowder to the point where you can blow the PVC cannon apart. (Or even steel pipe cannon.)
2. Chamber pressures can radically vary based on the amount of gunpowder used and how it's packed.
3. You can't build the cannon out of light weight material like PVC when you're burining chemical powders.
Using gas, or in my case calcium carbide which generates acetylene gas, the system is inherently self-limiting in terms of the explosive result possible. Using only air (as opposed to supplimenting by adding Oxygen), there is an optimal mixture range which will produce an explosive result. Too little calcium carbide and you don't generate enough acetylene to get a bang...you end up with a dud. Too much calcium carbide and you generate so much acetylene gas that you end up displacing too much air in the cannon...and you get a dud.
The only way you can blow up such a cannon is to block the barrel. Then the damage is determined by the type of gas you use (hair spray, propane, acetylene, etc) and the air mixture involved.
In addition to the obvious appearance of my cannon, part of my design criteria was to make the cannon as easy to transport, maintain, and use as possible...to the point where my kids (the youngest at the time I built it being 10) would have no problem with the basic mechanics of operation. This meant no clumsy unscrewing of components and such for operation or cleaning.
If I were to build another one, or if I were to have to repair the ignition system on this one, the only change I would make in keeping with the "ease of operations" aspect would be to replace the hardwired ignition system cable with a jack/plug mounted system. This way I could unplug the pushbutton cable from the cannon for both ease of transportation AND to make it easier to replace a damaged/broken cable without having to spend a weekend cutting apart and rebuilding the breech end to replace the hardwired cable. The current hardwired design is one of the major reasons I built two ignitors into my cannon...reliability in case one failed, so I wouldn't have to spend a lot of time doing just this kind of repair.
So what you really need to ask yourself is "How easy will it be for me to build and operate something that uses LP?"
What I like about using calcium carbide is that it's very easy to measure out identical quantities or to change quantities and get known, consistent results. It's also incredibly easy for me to ready the cannon for repeated shooting the way I designed it. All I have to do is pour a measured amount through the vent in the breech of the cannon and wait about 8 seconds or so. That's it...no fumbling with unscrewing a cap and screwing it back in afterwards. Push the firing button for the Earth shattering KABOOM, then run my ram rod in and out of the barrel three or four times to freshen the air inside, and repeat. It's absolutely that easy.
Periodically I flush the dirty water out of the reservoir through a built in drain valve and add clean water through the vent to refill.
One of the advantages of using calcium carbide, or other gas systems, is that it's inherently safer than using something like gunpowder. With gunpowder, you can directly scale up the explosive result by continually increasing the amount of gunpowder...the only limit is literally the volume of the cannon itself. But this has serious issues:
1. You can quite easily increase the amount of gunpowder to the point where you can blow the PVC cannon apart. (Or even steel pipe cannon.)
2. Chamber pressures can radically vary based on the amount of gunpowder used and how it's packed.
3. You can't build the cannon out of light weight material like PVC when you're burining chemical powders.
Using gas, or in my case calcium carbide which generates acetylene gas, the system is inherently self-limiting in terms of the explosive result possible. Using only air (as opposed to supplimenting by adding Oxygen), there is an optimal mixture range which will produce an explosive result. Too little calcium carbide and you don't generate enough acetylene to get a bang...you end up with a dud. Too much calcium carbide and you generate so much acetylene gas that you end up displacing too much air in the cannon...and you get a dud.
The only way you can blow up such a cannon is to block the barrel. Then the damage is determined by the type of gas you use (hair spray, propane, acetylene, etc) and the air mixture involved.
In addition to the obvious appearance of my cannon, part of my design criteria was to make the cannon as easy to transport, maintain, and use as possible...to the point where my kids (the youngest at the time I built it being 10) would have no problem with the basic mechanics of operation. This meant no clumsy unscrewing of components and such for operation or cleaning.
If I were to build another one, or if I were to have to repair the ignition system on this one, the only change I would make in keeping with the "ease of operations" aspect would be to replace the hardwired ignition system cable with a jack/plug mounted system. This way I could unplug the pushbutton cable from the cannon for both ease of transportation AND to make it easier to replace a damaged/broken cable without having to spend a weekend cutting apart and rebuilding the breech end to replace the hardwired cable. The current hardwired design is one of the major reasons I built two ignitors into my cannon...reliability in case one failed, so I wouldn't have to spend a lot of time doing just this kind of repair.
I built 2 one cost more and is more involved with the ignighter and one is just the tubes a cup in the breech and a hole above the cup. I have a little katchup bottle that ill use to fill the cup and then ill just use a small funnel to get the bangsite into the cup. Ill then just hold a flame near the hole to ignite it. This one will be messy and hard to clean im sure.
The other one with the grill ignighter and the 2 cleanouts will be much easier to fill, refill and clean. When removing the rear cap to refill the scoop it will allow more air into the back or i could blow threw it. Also with the rear cap i can repair or replace the ignighter or have a complete new rear cap with ignighter and everything on it just screw the new setup on and go.
The only downside is they dont look near as cool as yours, like you said they will just look like a bunch of PVC glued together. These are my first with carbide cannons so i can improve on the next one.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
You know...many improvements to hobbies end up being non-stop, addictive hobbies...
Do you use bangsite? How much do you use?You know...many improvements to hobbies end up being non-stop, addictive hobbies...
I watched alot of youtube videos and most were just using really really small amounts. The big bang cannons use like a BB size amount just a pinch and they are pretty loud.
I started with like 12-14 grains (9mm case full) and i couldnt get it to do anything. When i heaped up the 9mm shell i got a little puff out of it but nothing like ive seen on youtube.
The last one i watched they said they used 2/3 teaspoon so i used about that much and wow! it was pretty loud to say the least.
I just want to use the optimal amount without wasting any.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Yes, I use Bangsite. It's already in powder form, which is very convenient for my design. It comes in convenient tubes, each sealed air-tight until unscrewing the cap and puncturing the seal. So I have no worries about large quantities going bad due to air (moisture) exposure from a bad seal on a can.
Due to the size of my cannon, a larger amount is needed than the "BB" size you see for smaller calcium carbide cannons. I started off with 1/4 teaspoon, which worked OK, then gradually increased the amount until I had about the maximum blast effects with no further increase. For my cannon, that worked out to be a nice, heaping half-teaspoon. Remember, my cannon has a large firing chamber, being a 6x6x4 Tee. Your optimal amount may be different.
Remember...you need to give the calcium carbide a few seconds to generate the acetylene gas, probably not more than 8 to 10 seconds at most. Waiting too long will result in gas loss by leakage, which could decrease the effects.
The 9mm shell was a good starting point. Increase the amount from there and see what happens. You'll find out what works well soon enough!
I didnt glue mine together yet because i wasnt sure if i wanted it this way. Ive shot it 3 times now, the first few were using the 9mm shell as the amount and it was not enough i got a few puffs.
I then went to youtube and watched the guy who made one about my size and i heard 2/3 teaspoon so we tried that and it made a little bigger bang.
Got it home and did one with a little more and noticed more black film then the first good one. today i backed it down a little moresay 1/2 teaspoon and it rocked the pipes apart.
The rear sleve for the cleanout section backed out a little when it went off. I glued it together now i think this setup is good enough for the bang i get out of it.
The second one i cant get a good bang out of it using a lighter threw the charge hole at the top. I think ill go back and get another "T" for it with a smaller opening at the bottom like yours for the water.
I cant really put my finger on how loud it is, it has a crack like a 357 magnum but i dont think its near as loud. Ide say louder then a 9mm but has a sharp crack like a magnum.
I dont wait, as soon as i get the rear cleanout screwed in all of the bangsite has reacted and i push the ignighter quickly.
I may try waiting but i dont think i need to with my setup.
I then went to youtube and watched the guy who made one about my size and i heard 2/3 teaspoon so we tried that and it made a little bigger bang.
Got it home and did one with a little more and noticed more black film then the first good one. today i backed it down a little moresay 1/2 teaspoon and it rocked the pipes apart.
The rear sleve for the cleanout section backed out a little when it went off. I glued it together now i think this setup is good enough for the bang i get out of it.
The second one i cant get a good bang out of it using a lighter threw the charge hole at the top. I think ill go back and get another "T" for it with a smaller opening at the bottom like yours for the water.
I cant really put my finger on how loud it is, it has a crack like a 357 magnum but i dont think its near as loud. Ide say louder then a 9mm but has a sharp crack like a magnum.
I dont wait, as soon as i get the rear cleanout screwed in all of the bangsite has reacted and i push the ignighter quickly.
I may try waiting but i dont think i need to with my setup.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Hmmmm...
If you use a TEE (with a clean out plug for the water reservoir, you might consider completely eliminating the rear cleanout plug setup you have now, with it's shell casing and such.
Simply drill holes and mount your igniters directly into the rear cleanout plug, then screw it into the end of your cannon and leave it.
Drill a vent hole in the TEE over the bottom cleanout plug. Use this to pour your calcium carbide directly into the breech and into the water. Wait a few short seconds then press your igniter button.
This completely eliminates all the screwing/unscrewing of a vent plug every time you want to fire the cannon.
To air your cannon out between shots, make yourself a ram rod with a PVC handle and run it in and out of the cannon a few times between shots...then pour more calcium carbide in and hit the button again.
Easy-peasy!
EDIT:
One other suggestion:
For cleanout plugs that you're going to be removing/installing, take a few moments to make sure the threads on the plug and pipe are free of little ridges, seams, and such so that they screw in and out freely. Then spend a few bucks at the hardware store to get some silicone lubricant paste to rub into the threads to keep them from getting stuck.
If you use a TEE (with a clean out plug for the water reservoir, you might consider completely eliminating the rear cleanout plug setup you have now, with it's shell casing and such.
Simply drill holes and mount your igniters directly into the rear cleanout plug, then screw it into the end of your cannon and leave it.
Drill a vent hole in the TEE over the bottom cleanout plug. Use this to pour your calcium carbide directly into the breech and into the water. Wait a few short seconds then press your igniter button.
This completely eliminates all the screwing/unscrewing of a vent plug every time you want to fire the cannon.
To air your cannon out between shots, make yourself a ram rod with a PVC handle and run it in and out of the cannon a few times between shots...then pour more calcium carbide in and hit the button again.
Easy-peasy!
EDIT:
One other suggestion:
For cleanout plugs that you're going to be removing/installing, take a few moments to make sure the threads on the plug and pipe are free of little ridges, seams, and such so that they screw in and out freely. Then spend a few bucks at the hardware store to get some silicone lubricant paste to rub into the threads to keep them from getting stuck.
Im glad mine has 2 cleanout because this stuff stinks. Ive washed mine out a few times with soap and water with the rear ignighter/spoon out of it.
I even found a cap form a can of peanuts to put over the muzzle when i store it to keep that rotten egg smell in.
I glued it all together and let it cure a few hours and shot it again and it didnt budge
edit: i thought of something else, my cup at the bottom is about 3" round and about 2" tall. I use a teaspoon measure glued to the dowel. When i put the bangsite on the spoon i dont put it in a pile i kind of draw around the outside edge of the spoon. So when i dump it its not in a little pile its more spread out over the water. This might be why mine reacts so quickly?
I even found a cap form a can of peanuts to put over the muzzle when i store it to keep that rotten egg smell in.
I glued it all together and let it cure a few hours and shot it again and it didnt budge
edit: i thought of something else, my cup at the bottom is about 3" round and about 2" tall. I use a teaspoon measure glued to the dowel. When i put the bangsite on the spoon i dont put it in a pile i kind of draw around the outside edge of the spoon. So when i dump it its not in a little pile its more spread out over the water. This might be why mine reacts so quickly?
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RetiredUSNChief
Member
Not really. The simple act of dumping the spoon spreads it out...and regardless, it's a very quick chemical reaction with the water. Doesn't really matter if you dump it in all at once or kinda sprinkle the powder.
Get a glass jar or cup of water and pour some in so you can see what I mean.
As for the smell...it's not too bad outside, of course. When you're done, drain the water and rinse your reservoir to cut the odor down some more. After a day or so, it's not so bad.
Transporting my cannon inside my car a few hours after use isn't too bad, though the odor is still present.
Get a glass jar or cup of water and pour some in so you can see what I mean.
As for the smell...it's not too bad outside, of course. When you're done, drain the water and rinse your reservoir to cut the odor down some more. After a day or so, it's not so bad.
Transporting my cannon inside my car a few hours after use isn't too bad, though the odor is still present.
I have a few cannons and shoot only one of them. I bought it in 1970 from Barneys Cannons - they have since changed their name. It's a 1/8th scale of a Dahlgren 9 inch shell gun. It has a 1 inch bore and shooting a lead ball with holes drilled in the ball makes the ball whistle. The problem is that I have no place to shoot it that is safe. It takes at least 600 yards at high elevation to enjoy hearing the ball whistle down range. I now use it for the 4th and New Years and fire blanks. A neighbor has bought a replica 3 inch ordnance rifle which always wins the boom contest.
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