Any CCW news in Maryland???

[slh02]

Seems not too long ago there was rumblings of good things happening regarding Concealed Carry here in Maryland.

Anyone heard anything recently?

(By the way, for those who dont know, while we have a CCW system here in Maryland you have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a permit. :banghead: )

 

[Gray Peterson]

I heard the same thing. Kharn, wanna elaborate on this?

 

[nico]

I haven't heard anything. If only we could get a Repblican legislature to go along with the Republican Governor. Then maybe we'd get some progress on that front. As it is, I doubt any of the in the legislature would let any shall issue law get out of comittee.

 

[chaim]

If only we could get a Repblican legislature to go along with the Republican Governor. Then maybe we'd get some progress on that front

I don't think it is that simple in MD. You'd be surprised that quite a few of the rural Eastern Shore and Western MD Democrats are pro-gun rights and some of the suburban MD Republicans are pro-gun control. Even our governor, while a huge improvement and not an enemy, is at best a lukewarm ally and not completely clean on gun control/gun rights.

Our best bet is for now to forget other left-right issues and ignore the party label and vote strictly on gun rights stances when voting for state office. Funnel money and letters to pro-gun state Dems and Repubs and to the opponents of anti-gun state Dems and Repubs (and make sure they know why they got your money).

This state is still a left wing state. It is mostly Dem, and even the Repubs here (at least in the suburban areas) are pretty liberal. However, this state doesn't vote as reliably left as it used to. I wouldn't be 100% surprised if we went for Bush in the presidential election. I'm very sure Ehrlich will get a second term, and if he does he may bring some Republican legislators with him.

If we work smart (including supporting state Dems who are pro-gun) and work only on the one issue, I think we might see progress in the next few years and CCW in as little as 5-10 years.


Many, when I wrote that sentence I meant it as progress, but looking at it again I think I'm getting depressed.

 

[Leatherneck]

Matbe you guys should offer up Bal'mer and Monkey County to PRNJ. It's a win-win situation.

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[MrPink]

MD can easily be a "shall issue" state. The current laws allow the police (I think its the superintendent) to issue permits as he sees fit (see NRA page for more precise legal mumbo jumbo.

So all it takes is the Gov to appoint or direct the superintendent to be a little easier in granting permits.

 

[enfield]

Our best bet is for now to forget other left-right issues and ignore the party label and vote strictly on gun rights stances when voting for state office. Funnel money and letters to pro-gun state Dems and Repubs and to the opponents of anti-gun state Dems and Repubs (and make sure they know why they got your money).

It worked in Michigan! Don't forget to get the right people on the state supreme court also. You'll need them.

 

[Kharn]

Sorry guys, 2nd semester of junior year and then senior year of college have hit me like a Mack Truck, so I've been out of the loop.

Kharn

 

[Gunfyter]

Check Jim Purtillo's website www.direct-action.org to get the latest information on the continuing fight for our rights. You can sign up for the mailings and participate in the latest gun raffle to get money to help our cause.

 

[K-Romulus]

MD needs help

Things aren't as bad here in MD as I had thought (after hearing horror stories on the internet), but they could be better. It's no Virginia!

The road to CCW starts with one step. Kharn has done a good job of getting things going with his requests. It seems that the State Police do not have unfettered discretion ot grant permits; they must be based on "reasonable apprehended fear," interpreted to mean death threats or something else that distinguishes your situation from everyone else.

It is interesting that Kharn's requests have revealed that LEO's get an automatic pass when they apply!! The MD State Police policy is that by merely being an LEO you are automatically considered at risk - no documented threat against your life is needed. To me, that seems as bogus as the free semi-auto pass that CA LEO's used to have until Gorski challenged it as an equal protection problem. It's a good question to raise here in MD, but might piss off the LEO's who could be our allies. Some here at THR would argue with me on that point . . .

I second Chaim's answer about supporting pro-gun-owner types. The Kansas CCW bill is curretnly being shepherded by a Democrat; the Virginia CCW bill was passed by a Dem legislature and signed by a Dem governor; the NM CCW bill was signed by a Dem governor. Connie Morella was a "proud MMM'r." We need to look at where pols stand. My Dist 14 crackpots are co-sponsoring the current "AWB" push in the legislature. I'm working on letters to them, followed up by some phone calls.

I would like to get active on this issue in MD. Every other state surrounding MD has a fair-issue CCW system. My VA, FL, and UT permits allow me to carry in something like 25-28 states. It's time for MD to get with the program.

 

[slh02]

Thanks for the replies...

Although it isnt exactly what I wanted to hear I guess.

K-Rom-

You are correct that things arent as bad as they could be here in MD, but they are still quite bad. If you dont think so, take a look at our new approved handgun roster. There are only about 10 manufacturers on it.

 

[MrAcheson]

If Maryland does go for CCW reform, try to get them to recognize Delaware CCW permits. Delaware law requires the state reciprocate.

 

[chaim]

Umm, there seems to be quite a bit of interest here (big shock ). I know there are probably "official" groups out there working on it, but this kind of issue is probably just the thing that grass-roots activism is what will really put it over. I would have no idea where to start, but...

You guys think we could get a few of us together, say once a month (or two) to discuss the issue, give each other suggestions, make a list of pols to write, and maybe even try to get audiences with local pols? Having a small group of "regular guys" wouldn't hurt the bigger guys, and having a group lobbying for this who aren't allied with the big bad NRA or other groups may even help (remember this is MD, we have to deal with MD attitudes a little at a time). Sure there are bigger guys working on it, but as said before a group of "regular guys" might help, and we are already here talking about CCW in MD. Instead of complaining, maybe we can do something. The recent news out of Ohio actually has me a little bit optimistic here.

Maybe start like some of the New England founding fathers and have our first meetings in local bars (no more grassroots than that) unless someone wanted to volunteer their livingroom. Of course another logical place would be the firing range. There can be time to stand around talking at the indoor ranges sometimes, and certainly when the weather is warmer the outdoor ranges would be perfect.

 

[JeepDriver]

Off Topic:

I have it from a very reliable source (A Sig Rep) that Maryland just approved an internal locking system for Sig pistols and new Sigs should be on the shelves in a couple months.

 

[MikeK]

No offense Chaim, but based on what I've seen, the last thing MD needs is yet another gun rights group. The ones in the state I'm familiar with do very little coordinating among themselves. In some cases energy is wasted arguing/fighting with other groups over trivial matters.

All of the things you mentioned are already being done by at least two of them. Next week begins the brief legislation session. Now is the time to act, not talk.

I would suggest ALL of the MD members attend a meeting or two of some of the groups. MCSM meets Tuesday 1/13. www.mcsm.org Check www.mcdl.org for their schedule. Associated Gun Clubs web site has some important info posted and is updated as new laws are proposed.

You will also find that the attendees are 'regular' guys and gals ranging from from bus drivers to doctors (not that being a doctor is better than being a bus driver).

Let's work on keeping our rights to semi-auto long guns, which may be taken away this session. If we're successful there then perhaps we can try something with CCW.

I feel better now.

 

[K-Romulus]

I second that chaim AND Mike K

I would like to get to the MCSM meetings, but work keeps me late in the office

I have noticed since moving here that there seem to be many splintered pro-gun-owner factions here in MD. In VA, there was only one really active group - VCDL. Rallying behind one voice really paid off. Anyone know why the MD dynamics turned out so differently?

My observation is that some of the MD groups seem a little "out there" . Being essentially a liberal Democrat, I get nervous when surrounded by ultra-conservative types, and some gun-owner groups turn me off for that reason. Since I am unable to actually get out there and meet the members of these groups, I can only go off what they put on the internet, and some of that ain't pretty.

MSRPA seems to be the most professional of the groups, and I have sent them some $$. I would like to meet with more of the MCSM people; I met Bob Culver at the MoCO gun show back in Oct/Nov. and he seemed very level headed.

I am going to do my best to make it to the Shoot later this month. I look forward to meeting with you all.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

i met with Senator Mooney yesterday

Things are afoot with a self defence act this year.
He gave me a copy of his bill.

Marylands gun owners had better fill the seats in Annapolis this season.
(by that i mean, we need 200 people to show up in mid March)

The usual 20, is not gonna cut it this year.

i expect the Bradites to full court press the legislature on the AWB

With the new Filabuster sham they are pulling,
they have stacked the deck against us.

The AWB bill may end up on Ehrlich's desk.

We need to show that we care, by showing up.

heres the gun bill page for 2004:
http://mlis.state.md.us/2004rs/subjects/guns.htm

Mooney's bill will appear here soon

 

[Harry Tuttle]

the Sig system is not gonna happen, until we get another good guy on the Handgun review board

the current board is hog tied

 

[MikeK]

Harry raises some good points.

We need to show up in mumbers at Annapolis. A lot goes on in the evenings.

The filibuster info is on the Associated Gun Club site and is what I was referring to earlier.

Mooney is our staunchest supporter. He has proposed great legislation in the past, but of course it goes nowhere in MD.

To me, getting a SIG with a lock doesn't solve the problem that we have of requiring the locks in the first place.

KR - Want me to call you at work around 6:00 and pretend I'm your sick father, mother, brother uncle etc.? In my experience MSRPA hasn't done much if anything to help gun-owners in MD. They do seem to be improving. An interesting aside - two of the most active MCSM members are from VA, including the co-chair. Go figure. I agree that most of the people in MD working for gun rights tend to be on the conservative side. I've also noticed that most of the business owners I work with are too.

 

[chaim]

Mike, I'm not really thinking about a new formal group. It is just MD is pretty knee-jerk anti-gun and certainly anti-gun groups. I'm thinking a bunch of guys working together in a coordinated manner, but regular guys and not working under the auspices of some group might go over better. I'm also not thinking yet another gun rights group, but more just a one issue group- CCW. Individually, we should get involved with other, broader based groups. Even working on our one issue, when helpful (i.e. when they are working directly on that issue) we should work alongside the established groups as well. I'm just thinking a bunch of regular guys who aren't speaking for some group, but who are working together, might help in MD (with the prejudices MDers have about guns and gun groups we might be more likely to get listened to than even the smaller groups like MCSM). Official groups give you the advantage of access, especially to those who are neutral or your allies in the legislature, but they also give those who are anti or neutral but with preconcieved negative notions an excuse to put up a wall to excuse not really listening to you. I think the groups are important, but sometimes having a smaller group of semi-organized individuals can have a role as well. Oh, there's a MCSM meeting on Tues, 1/13? I might be out of town, but if I'm not I'll be there.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

well, we had a big tent coordination meeting yesterday with a bunch of different Progun groups involved

MCDL MCSM MSRPA Dealers TRT AGC

the swing vote on the AWB is Brochin:

http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/msa/mdmanual/05sen/html/msa13974.html

JAMES BROCHIN
Democrat, District 42, Baltimore County


James Senate Office Building, Room 221
110 College Ave.
Annapolis, MD 21401 - 1991
(410) 841-3648, (301) 858-3648
1-800-492-7122, ext. 3648 (toll free)
e-mail: [email protected]
fax: (410) 841-3643, (301) 858-3643

305 Washington Ave.
Towson, MD 21204
(410) 823-7087
fax: (410) 823-7088

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member of Senate since January 8, 2003. Member, Judicial Proceedings Committee, 2003-; Joint Committee on Administrative, Executive and Legislative Review, 2003-; Joint Committee on Federal Relations, 2003-.

Member, Environmental Restoration and Development Task Force, 2003-. Born in Baltimore, Maryland, February 22, 1964. University of North Carolina at Greensboro, B.A. (political science), 1986; University of Maryland, College Park, M.A. (government & politics), 1990. Legislative analyst, Maryland Senate President, 1989. Lobbyist, Baltimore County, 1990-91. Campaign manager, American Joe Miedusiewski, 1993-94. Political science instructor, Catonsville Campus, Community College of Baltimore County, 1990-98; Towson University, 1994-. Insurance broker, 2000-. Senior political writer, Baltimore Magazine, 1994-2001. Political analyst, WCBM radio. Married; one child.

 

[JeepDriver]

the Sig system is not gonna happen, until we get another good guy on the Handgun review board

the current board is hog tied

They wouldn't have to go through the handgun review board. They are not a new gun. They are the same guns just with the approved internal lock installed in them.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

according to Sandy Abrams, all intergral lock designs are evaluated by the board

SB211: http://mlis.state.md.us/2000rs/billfile/sb0211.htm
Responsible Gun Safety Act of 2000

3 FOR the purpose of clarifying the disposition of certain forfeited property; prohibiting
4 certain persons who have been adjudicated delinquent of certain offenses
5 involving firearms from obtaining a permit to carry a handgun, purchasing,
6 renting, or transferring a handgun, and possessing a handgun until a certain
7 age; prohibiting a dealer from selling or transferring certain firearms to certain
8 persons who have been adjudicated delinquent of certain offenses involving
9 firearms until a certain age; requiring certain firearms safety training courses;
10 altering the composition of the Handgun Roster Board; defining certain terms;
11 providing for a certain procedure for collecting certain

handgun shell casing information; requiring certain individuals to provide
13 certain


handgun shell casing information to the State for
14 certain testing; prohibiting the sale

offer for sale, rental, or transfer
18 of certain handguns under certain circumstances unless the handgun is sold,
19 offered for sale, rented, or transferred with an external safety lock; prohibiting
20 the sale, offer for sale, rental, or transfer of certain handguns under certain
21 circumstances unless the handgun has a certain integrated mechanical safety
22 device; requiring the Handgun Roster Board to review the status of personalized
23 handgun technology and annually report certain findings to the Governor and
24 the General Assembly beginning on or before a certain date;


(6) "INTEGRATED MECHANICAL SAFETY DEVICE" MEANS A DISABLING
15 OR LOCKING DEVICE THAT:

16 (I) IS BUILT INTO A HANDGUN; AND

17 (II) IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT THE HANDGUN FROM BEING
18 DISCHARGED UNLESS THE DEVICE HAS BEEN DEACTIVATED.

19 (7) "PERSONALIZED HANDGUN" MEANS A HANDGUN MANUFACTURED
20 WITH INCORPORATED DESIGN TECHNOLOGY ALLOWING IT TO BE FIRED ONLY BY A
21 PERSON WHO IS THE AUTHORIZED USER OF THE HANDGUN AND THAT PREVENTS
22 ANY OF THE SAFETY CHARACTERISTICS FROM BEING READILY DEACTIVATED.

 

[MikeK]

Harry - the 'big tent' meeting is great news!

 

[Spot77]

MikeK, Harry, et al....

You guys seem to be in the know about the political action in Maryland. As all of us here at THR are concerned with our gun rights, we try to follow these happenings as much as possible.

Could one of you guys start a new thread on this at the end of Feb so we can try to get as many people as possible to show up in Annapolis when the time comes?

There's TONS of people here at THR that live within easy driving distance of Annapolis.

Also guys, don't forget about the Maryland THR shoot at Continental Arms in Timonium on the 25th of this month.