Any negatives about adding a laser?

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Yes.... but it seems to be an excellent addition to a nightstand gun. Great warrantee as well! Says it mounts to a Picatinny rail. I am going to look into this further. May be just what I need for my at home gun. This AND a lot of practice..... :D THANKS!
 
Shooting more, typing less
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Yah.... I feel bad about keeping this going. I AM learning about options and methods that I've never heard of before but Google is my friend as well and I should be using that more and asking less questions of you. Who knows..... I may (probably will) need your help in the future and I don't want you thinking "Oh NO.... NOT him again!!!!".

God bless you guys and a very sincere THANK YOU for passing on some of your experience to me.

Leon
 
mljdeckard said:
My only concern is, I think a lot of people think they are a substitute for training.
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I understand your concern and share it, but pragmatically speaking I think they can be a substitute for training (at least to some degree). :eek: In my opinion, those who are properly and adequately trained should have no use for a laser sight (or an optical sight, for that matter) on a defensive pistol. The problem is that most people aren't willing to train much, but are willing to use a pistol in self-defense regardless--this is the common case that happens all the time.

Although this is only a tiny data set--namely the family members in my household--I've found that with a laser it takes significantly less training to get somebody on target rapidly and accurately in simulated defensive scenarios. While I can't say that this is true for everybody (we can't do that with anything, really), it seems to be for some people, at least. I can't convince everybody to train the right way, so what am I supposed to do, hold out on principle when I know that they can be better defensive shooters with laser sights? The bullet goes where the dot is--yes, when used properly (i.e. leaned on as a crutch), this requires fewer and less developed skills, therefore it can be a substitute for training in some ways and to some degree, which is better than nothing.
 
I agree Manco. I would guess (just a guess - I have no facts to back it up) that the vast majority of us not using our weapons in a professional capacity will never seek out the proper training. I must admit that I am looking for a quick and dirty solution to plug the gap between newbness (is that a word?) and the lengthy process of acquiring the experience that many of you professionals possess as well.

That being said..... There is no substitute for proper training but the fact that many/most of us will never follow through and get that proper training is why you get these questions.

I would imagine that it is difficult for many of you to put yourselves into a newb's shoes and see things from his perspective. I think that you have shown amazing patience in answering my question. There may come a day when I can help others get through this awkward transition - I hope that I can - but until that day I will use every crutch available to me.

You are spot on my friend! I would much rather that my family and loved ones learn ANY method that works for them rather being force-fed to use the "proper" methods. They can always learn that later (if they choose to - many will not). Helping them with their chosen method of defense is IMHO the best thing that you can do for them.

Some of the things that I have learned from you. Things that anyone can do:

1. Purchase and use a high power flashlight to identify and possibly impair the vision of the BG.

2. Forget my silly worry about a laser giving away my position.

3. Become as good as I can with my laser, if that is my method of choice, for now but also don't forget to practice with my sights in the event of battery failure.

4. Other crutches are available that I had no knowledge of. One of these "new" options may be best for me.

5. Learn the point and shoot method of self defense. THIS one makes SO much sense to me because it is fast and I believe that fast (and accurate to a degree) will be the most important thing in a defensive situation.

6. Practice from different positions, angles, motions. Practice getting to my weapon ASAP.

7. Practice whenever I can and wherever I can. A lot can be practiced at home. Work on improving my skills until they become second nature.

I've probably missed listing a few of the things that I believe that anyone should be able to do - superior skill not required.

I may be saying something controversial here but I find an indoor range to be very boring. I believe that it is very helpful in learning your weapon, improving your trigger skills, aiming properly, and I'm sure a number of other things (getting used to recoil, noise, etc.) BUT I really can't envision a situation where I am going to be standing with perfect form, taking aim at a non moving, non weapon wielding target. If I shoot at something like THAT I am going to jail. In NO WAY am I saying unnecessary - just boring.

I can't wait to get out to my sister's farm and have some FUN learning! I wish that this learning process could be fun for all - we might be better trained.

One more thing if I may...... It would have been easy for you to reply to this thread with a "Get proper training" answer and left it at that. I was in a similar thread on another site and that is the direction the thread went. IMO nothing was learned by anyone. Because you have taken the time to actually answer my questions others reading your words will have learned as well. I'm sure that you are aware that you have helped everyone (not just me) and it is entirely possible that something that you have said may just one day save our lives. May God bless you for that my friends!

Leon
 
My dad and I both use Crimson Trace lasers, his on a Glock 19 and mine on an HK45CT. We use them in conjunction with our night sights on our pistols. However, we like them because he is 88 and I'm 61, and our eyes are just not what they used to be when we were younger. It's easy when you're young and have excellent vision to say someone should just use their iron sights. What happens though as you age and it gets progressively harder to see your iron sights in low light or no light conditions? Do you simply give up shooting or do you find something else that can enhance your shooting and allow you to still carry a weapon for defense of your home and family? When I shoot my HK, I use my iron sights as much as possible, but at night I find the CT laser works great. This is how I view it, being an old geezer and all. I may not be able to hit you with my iron sights at night, but I'll sure put a big hole in your chest where my laser hits!!:evil:
 
Your post strikes home with me very much. Just today I picked up a .22 cal revolver that I ordered from Bud's for my dad (84) to go shooting with me (62). I was wondering if he would still enjoy putting a few holes in tin (actually aluminum now) cans. I think that it is great that you and your dad still shoot together. If your dad is like mine he was the one who taught you during your earlier years. The least we can do is to include them in the things that they loved to do in their younger years.

My comment has nothing to do with lasers but you have encouraged me to make this as much fun for dad as possible. He deserves it!

I hear you on the age thing as well. I decided on a .22 revolver for dad to make things as easy as possible for him. If I could afford a laser for the .22 it would be on there as well...... maybe one will get on there by the time he reaches 88. ;) Thank you sir! I was concerned that maybe dad was getting a little too old for this but he was so excited when I mentioned it to him. Hearing your story I am now confident that things will go well.

Leon
 
I liked your reply. As you, my dad taught me young to shoot his pistols and rifles. I have enjoyed shooting with him now for probably 53 years or so. He still loves to shoot his pistols, and we go as much as we can. I figure every year left with him is precious, and I know I'll regret it if I don't go now and lose him tomorrow. So, we keep shooting and having fun and trying to outshoot each other. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Have fun with your dad while you can. You can never get the time back once it's gone. Take care, my friend!
 
I never intend on pulling my weapon (and never have ) unless I am ready to fire.. I live on 12 acres and it is dark at night.. no lights...

With my night sights and my crimson laser grips... I can level the gun and aquire the target with my laser... BANG..!! BG down... I don't plan on giving him the chance to return fire....
 
Lasers have been a great training aid for my wife, sort of a crutch when she first started shooting. Past that, I dont feel that they are reliable enough to depend on for self defense. Batteries can go dead, ambient light can be too bright, just too much can go wrong. It was a great help for me, trying to see why she was shooting the way she did, and helped reenforce the muscle memory involved with point shooting.
When it all comes down though, I still depend on sight alignment, sight picture teaching mt primary marksmanship instructor beat into us in boot camp. It works, as long as my sights are attached, wont let me down, and with good training, becomes second nature to the user.
 
I own quite a few pistols wit CT Lazers and I absolutely love them.. IMHO here are the pro's and con's...

PRO's: Rapid target acquisition in low light... A Great training tool to show new or rusty shooters problems with trigger control and grip without having to pump a lot of ammo down range... reat psychological tool, it really makes folk think about there immediate future and the futility of pursuit of illegal endeavors.. Allows for accurate shots from behind cover and at odd positions that you may be forced into to get to cover and concealment.. lazers don't care about barrel length, they allow for very accurate shooting with snubbies that have a limited sight radius.. Gives us old folks with failing eyes a more level playing field...

CON's: as previously stated, DO NOT let a lazer compensate for proper shooting techniques, and training, Folks will have a tendency to depend too much on a lazer,.. it in NO WAY makes up for learning the basics, and proper techniques.. it is a tool, NOT A CRUTCH... Batteries do go bad, you have to change them out on a regular basis..
They are expensive.. They don't like to get wet or go swimming.. like everything else, you have to maintain them, batteries, use that little swab that comes with them to wipe out the belly button lint.. They are NOT a cure all.... only proper practice achieves perfection..
 
I've never talked to anyone who mounted optics of any kind on their carry guns.
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I did. A guy over on glocktalk was adamant about his glock (19 or a 17, can't remember) being easy to conceal with a burris fastfire mounted. The slide was machined and it did sit really low, but there was still a big hoop and a giant freakin window. It just didn't look like "jeans and t-shirt" friendly to me, unless it was one of those moo-moo looking t-shirts the kids love these days...you know, the ones that hang past your thighs?
 
I like the idea of Crimson Trace lasers, but I usually rest my trigger finger up there when I'm not ready to shoot. Something to keep in mind if your considering that design. You can retrain yourself to put your finger straight across the trigger guard, but that also depends how long your finger is in relation to the guard.
 
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With the $50 rebate CT is presently running these are about $120.

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CT 405s on a J Frame Centennial M&P 340 with XS night sights. A very nice combination and the battery life is amazing. Great recoil mitigation as-well.
 
I got a CT grip laser on a S & W 642 and I use it to train myself in point shooting from the hip , It is slow to activate, but once you are trained and learn to point shoot you wont even need it at contact distances
 
I tried a couple of guns owned by a friend. One was on a M60, and the other on a Glock
Instead of speeding the target acquisition they slowed it. You can look over the sights and get a shot off faster than if you are looking for the dot.

I concluded that it was not for me, and he agreed. He and another instructor tried them with a timer, and both agreed that they got off an accurate first shot without the laser.

Regards,
Jerry
 
I think if I picked up a new gun I will not be as fast as with a gun I've been firing for years. You have to practice with it.

I think if you are shooting at small targets with space behind them, like bottles sitting on a fence, it is true as well. Its not so true if you are shooting at large targets and going for center mass.

I shoot as much with irons as a laser, I am faster with a laser. I'm faster with the first shot and much faster with follow ups.
 
I have Crimson Trace and night sights... I only find laser useful in very low light conditions... As home defense, the night sights level the gun the laser gives me general direction to the point of impact. In a real life and death situation (I hope I never face) instinct and practice is what you will truly rely on to place an effective fired round... the laser is an aid to accomplish this... when the sun goes down the laser switch goes on....
 
only 2 things. 1) i would have to buy a new holster. and 2) unless it has an instant on switch, it can give away your position @ night.
 
Give away your position..? If you are pointing a gun with a laser at an armed perp, your gun should be fired already and if your hiding and not seen where is the threat... . If the perp is unarmed where is the threat..? Get real..I find these overthought situations funny at least...
 
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