kentucky_smith
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Experiences? Opinions? I've got 4 CZ pistols, but none are suitable for ccw. Okay, the cz50 is, but 9x18 is a great round.
Anybody ccw a CZ82/83?
- Thread starter kentucky_smith
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kentucky_smith said:
Well, you can certainly carry the CZ-83. It is a good pistol, but I wouldn't want to carry such a marginal caliber. The minimum I would carry, is 9mm (for primary), but would prefer something heavier (.40, .45). For the size of the CZ-82/83, you can carry a better caliber.
9x18 is a great round for what? I think it's marginal and it doesn't have the bullet designs available that even the .380 has, much less something like a 9mm/.40/.45. It's certainly better than carrying nothing, but if you have a choice, I would get something more suitable. (The 9x18 is just a tad faster than the .380.)
No offense, but since you asked for opinions, that's mine. I would consider a 9mm at the minimum. It sounds like you don't have a CZ-82/83 and it's okay to have one, but it's not a great caliber choice for personal defense.
Dollar An Hour
Member
+1 Kestrel
The CZ-83 is just so bulky for it's caliber. For the size I'd carry a 9mm or larger caliber pistol.
Besides, good luck finding good leather for a CZ-83.
The CZ-83 is just so bulky for it's caliber. For the size I'd carry a 9mm or larger caliber pistol.
Besides, good luck finding good leather for a CZ-83.
usp9
Member
Bianchi makes an IWB holster that fits well. Labeled for the Beretta 84, but these guns are the same size.
Texfire
Member
Also HBE (Holsters by Eric) and Ross Leather offer holsters for a CZ82/83. I fully intended to carry my CZ82 CCW, but by the time I had my CHL and found a holster for IWB carry I had also found a used K9. I mostly carry it instead. Nothing against the CZ, but for me as a platform it's a little fat in the grip for anything less than an 9mm.
Tex
Tex
Gun Wielding Maniac
Member
I've got a CZ-82 I plan on using for CCW. It'll be back-up for my BHP or CZ-75.
I personally wouldnt have a problem using it as a primary. I don't regard its size as a big disadvantage. Pistols with teeny-tiny grips I have a hard time hanging onto. What is the point of a gun if you can't hit anything with it? As for caliber... Hornady makes a 95 grain hollowpoint load that is pretty destructive. It puts 9mm ball to shame, anyway. I've always been one who believed that it wasnt size that counted, but how you used it.
Anyway, look at some of the advantages of the CZ-82. 12+1 capacity, mild recoil, good sights, double action or single action cocked and locked, smooth trigger, and it has ambidextrous magazine release and safety. If I'm shot in my right hand, or my strong side is disabled by an attacker up close, I can draw the CZ from my left side and operate it without missing a beat. I believe drawing a secondary pistol is faster then a reload anyway...
I personally wouldnt have a problem using it as a primary. I don't regard its size as a big disadvantage. Pistols with teeny-tiny grips I have a hard time hanging onto. What is the point of a gun if you can't hit anything with it? As for caliber... Hornady makes a 95 grain hollowpoint load that is pretty destructive. It puts 9mm ball to shame, anyway. I've always been one who believed that it wasnt size that counted, but how you used it.
Anyway, look at some of the advantages of the CZ-82. 12+1 capacity, mild recoil, good sights, double action or single action cocked and locked, smooth trigger, and it has ambidextrous magazine release and safety. If I'm shot in my right hand, or my strong side is disabled by an attacker up close, I can draw the CZ from my left side and operate it without missing a beat. I believe drawing a secondary pistol is faster then a reload anyway...
I'm willing to bet that those who poopoo the 9x18 sure wouldn't want to stand in front of one.
The CZ 83 is a great little pistol. You get 12+1 in a handy very concealable little package. The recoil is noticably less than a makarov and the thing is way more accurate than it has any right to be.
If you cant get the job done with 12+1 of 9mm mak then having a 9mm or a .45 won't make any difference.
The CZ 83 is a great little pistol. You get 12+1 in a handy very concealable little package. The recoil is noticably less than a makarov and the thing is way more accurate than it has any right to be.
If you cant get the job done with 12+1 of 9mm mak then having a 9mm or a .45 won't make any difference.
Matt Dillon
Member
I have a friend who gets 13 +1 in a CZ83, and carries it some times in a Pager Pal holster.
STAGE 2 said:
I doubt anyone would want to stand in front of a pellet rifle and get shot with one, either, but that doesn't mean it's one of the more effective calibers. By that logic, there is NO caliber too small, to be effective for self defense. It's simply not true.
STAGE 2 said:
The issue is not how many rounds the pistol holds, but the effectiveness of the caliber. I would rather depend on a more effective caliber, than trying to compensate by emptying the gun and hoping it works. It is much more prudent to insist on an effective first and second shot, than hoping you can empty 13 shots into someone, making sure each one lands in the right place and penetrates deeply enough to stop an attacker. That just doesn't happen in a self defense shooting.
If someone really likes the gun, that's fine. I have one myself, but I do not carry it for protection. There is no reason for me to do so. Once you see how ineffective handgun rounds are in a shooting, you want all the advantage you can reasonably handle, afford and conceal.
Not trying to be argumentative - I just don't want to see kentucky_smith misled.
Gun Wielding Maniac
Member
It is well known that handguns are ballistically and terminally inferior to rifles. What I don't get is why someone who says they "trust the .45 ACP" wouldn't trust a 9mm or a 9x18... Both penetrate about the same as a .45 ACP. As much as people love to talk about how a 9mm may expand but a .45 ACP won't shrink, you also can't carry 2 .45's for every 9mm. The point of this isnt to hate on the .45, but really, the differance between all these handguns in terms of final killing power... are approximate. Just how exactly does a person come to the conclusion that one cartridge is "Acceptable for self defense" while another is not? It must be a personal decision. KY_smith seems to think 9x18 is for him.
The question concerned the gun... not the cartridge.
The question concerned the gun... not the cartridge.
kentucky_smith
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Wow, I guess Warsaw Pact countries were underpowered for awhile, along with many people who carry a Makarov. 
I would rate 9x18 slightly above .380 and call it just fine for ccw. I'm looking for a ccw instructor in Kentucky and was thinking about a new pocket pistol, maybe even a keltec p32, but I guess I'll have to find somewhere to tuck the 1911, or the CZ75b, or the CZ40b.
I would rate 9x18 slightly above .380 and call it just fine for ccw. I'm looking for a ccw instructor in Kentucky and was thinking about a new pocket pistol, maybe even a keltec p32, but I guess I'll have to find somewhere to tuck the 1911, or the CZ75b, or the CZ40b.
CZF
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I prefer a Cz82/83 over any MAK or other .380.
Ammo was hard to find in .380 for me..and double
tat for the 9mm Makarov fodder.
They are really nice guns, and WE hear little of problems with them.
Very accurate for the caliber and you can even put nites on them.
My old model 83 didn't like the Hornady XTP, but ate anything else.
The 83 fits most everyone and has gentle recoil as compared to other blowbacks.
DansAmmo.com usually has good prices on bulk 9 mak.
Ammo was hard to find in .380 for me..and double
tat for the 9mm Makarov fodder.
They are really nice guns, and WE hear little of problems with them.
Very accurate for the caliber and you can even put nites on them.
My old model 83 didn't like the Hornady XTP, but ate anything else.
The 83 fits most everyone and has gentle recoil as compared to other blowbacks.
DansAmmo.com usually has good prices on bulk 9 mak.
I think the CZ 82/83 is a wonderful pistol. No, the cartridge is not ideal (be it .32/.380/9x18), but the fact that so many love this pistol despite the cartridge should tell you something. Very accurate, reliable, great trigger, good pointer. I plan on buying another one.
-David
-David
I understand the point you are making, and I do agree with it. I'm a .45 guy for that very reason. However, there are some situations where concealibility overrides firepower. For john doe citizen I would guess that this would be a majority of the time.
As far as effectiveness goes, as much as I hate quips, there is a great deal of truth in the statement that a .22 that hits is far better than the .44 than misses. Tactics and proficiency are far more important than the numbers after the decimal point. I feel perfectly capable with my 5 shot snubby, but I'm not going to use it to charge up San Juan hill. I will use it to neutralize the threat and/or retreat. The same goes for my PPK. They arent hand cannons and they aren't offensive weapons. The CZ 83 is far better than either of these 2 pistols for a sustained gunfight, but it still wouldn't be my first choice for an extended shoot out.
For 99% of situations that a private citizen will face, the CZ 83 will perform admirably, and conceal well at the same time.
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dairycreek
Member
Used to carry this CZ83 in a FIST #1. Great combination. Sad to say I don't have it any more. My oldest daughter confiscated it and she loves it.
Buck Nekkid
Member
Dairycreek, how do you have a "silver" trigger guard on your nickel 83?? I've got a nickel 83 that I carry in a Dillon concealed carry briefcase and have wished that the trigger guard was nickel like the rest of the gun.
I do not feel "undergunned" carrying the CZ 83 in 9 x 18 for one primary reason, I hit what I'm aiming at with it. Something I couldn't say about my old Taurus 85 that I used to carry.
Of the 7 or 8 CZ's that I own, the CZ 83 is right up there as far as accuracy goes. My CZ 97B might be a tad better, but it's about twice as heavy!! Not a very good CCW pistol for me!!
I do not feel "undergunned" carrying the CZ 83 in 9 x 18 for one primary reason, I hit what I'm aiming at with it. Something I couldn't say about my old Taurus 85 that I used to carry.
Of the 7 or 8 CZ's that I own, the CZ 83 is right up there as far as accuracy goes. My CZ 97B might be a tad better, but it's about twice as heavy!! Not a very good CCW pistol for me!!
Texfire
Member
I thought my comment was innocent enough, sure wasn't trying to start a caliber war. :banghead:
I'm not a size queen, I don't care if my firearm is in .45 ACP, .45 LC, .44 Mag, .44 Special, .40, .357 Magnum, .357 Sig, .38 Special, 9mm, 9mm Makarov, .380 ACP, 7.62x25 or anyone else's favorite caliber that I ran out of space to list. I care that I'm accurate with it, and it goes bang when I want it to. Almost all pistols are going to be less effective than a shotgun or a rifle all other things being equal, so to a certain extent every pistol is a compromise. But I can conceal a pistol much easier than a rifle or shotgun.
The point I was trying to make is that since 9mm Mararov is low enough powered that it can be chambered in a small direct blowback pistol, that's an advantage of the cartridge. The reason that I don't carry mine, besides the fact that I'm waiting on a holster for it, long story, is the CZ's double stack magazine makes the grip thick enough that it isn't any easier for me to conceal than a single stack 9mm and I find that the grip is the biggest factor on which gun I can conceal in a certain place comfortably. Nothing else.
Tex
I'm not a size queen, I don't care if my firearm is in .45 ACP, .45 LC, .44 Mag, .44 Special, .40, .357 Magnum, .357 Sig, .38 Special, 9mm, 9mm Makarov, .380 ACP, 7.62x25 or anyone else's favorite caliber that I ran out of space to list. I care that I'm accurate with it, and it goes bang when I want it to. Almost all pistols are going to be less effective than a shotgun or a rifle all other things being equal, so to a certain extent every pistol is a compromise. But I can conceal a pistol much easier than a rifle or shotgun.
The point I was trying to make is that since 9mm Mararov is low enough powered that it can be chambered in a small direct blowback pistol, that's an advantage of the cartridge. The reason that I don't carry mine, besides the fact that I'm waiting on a holster for it, long story, is the CZ's double stack magazine makes the grip thick enough that it isn't any easier for me to conceal than a single stack 9mm and I find that the grip is the biggest factor on which gun I can conceal in a certain place comfortably. Nothing else.
Tex
+1
I'll never forget the video about the cop who stops a truck and has the fellow start opening boxes in the back. The fellow gets to one box that he just does NOT want to open (cause it has drugs inside) and decides to stab the cop instead. Knife-wielder is a bit slow though and the cop backs off and shoots him. With a .45 ACP. Only response from the knife-wielder? "You shot me." Then he tries to CHASE the cop down and stab him again and finally gets into a wrestling match...AFTER BEING SHOT WITH THE .45ACP... gets taken to the ground in a choke hold and after a few minutes finally decides to give up.
Evidence enough for me that NO pistol caliber is an immediate stopper.
The difference between a .30-06 and a .45ACP?...HUGE!
The difference between a 9x18 and a .45ACP?...Not so much.
Carry the 9x18. Learn to shoot it ACCURATELY...then take an anatomy class to learn where to aim it.
mack69
Member
Double tap to center mass... If that don't work one to the head...
I really like the CZ82 and agree that the 9x18 round is a o k. As lots have already said, the differences between handgun ammo is small and not enough to argue about. As far as most are concerned...bringing a gun to a gun fight is the most important thing followed by knowing how to use it....
I really like the CZ82 and agree that the 9x18 round is a o k. As lots have already said, the differences between handgun ammo is small and not enough to argue about. As far as most are concerned...bringing a gun to a gun fight is the most important thing followed by knowing how to use it....
PCRCCW
Member
Ive carried 82's and 83's over the years and never felt under gunned. The guns are just so damn pointable, the triggers are vantastic and the are very dependeble and accurate.
If you shoot the gun as well as the gun can help you shoot...then you could do very well with carrying one of these.
Its very much the same as when people say the carry a 1911..because they are just shootable guns...same with CZ's. The 83 is probably one of the easiest guns to shoot well out of all of them........
Shoot well.
If you shoot the gun as well as the gun can help you shoot...then you could do very well with carrying one of these.
Its very much the same as when people say the carry a 1911..because they are just shootable guns...same with CZ's. The 83 is probably one of the easiest guns to shoot well out of all of them........
Shoot well.
redactor
Member
I've got one in my rotation, along with an SA-XD9 Service model and an all-stainless Commander-length 1911 in .45. The one I carry on a given day depends on what I'm wearing.
My preference is the Commander, but I don't feel under-gunned with the 82. All handguns are compromises, and everyone has to draw their own "line" somewhere. My "line" is "nothing less than .380 ACP," so 9x18 is sufficient by that measure.
For what it's worth, the 1911 weighs 35 oz unloaded. The XD9 and CZ-82 both weigh 28 oz unloaded. This makes a difference during 12 hours with the thing on your hip. The 82 is shorter in the barrel and in the butt than either of the other two, but the double-stack grip of the 82 is a bit wide. When bills allow, I'm thinking about adding a FEG PA-63, and maybe turning that XD-9 into a CZ-RAMI. As I understand, the RAMI is about the same size/weight as the 82.
My preference is the Commander, but I don't feel under-gunned with the 82. All handguns are compromises, and everyone has to draw their own "line" somewhere. My "line" is "nothing less than .380 ACP," so 9x18 is sufficient by that measure.
For what it's worth, the 1911 weighs 35 oz unloaded. The XD9 and CZ-82 both weigh 28 oz unloaded. This makes a difference during 12 hours with the thing on your hip. The 82 is shorter in the barrel and in the butt than either of the other two, but the double-stack grip of the 82 is a bit wide. When bills allow, I'm thinking about adding a FEG PA-63, and maybe turning that XD-9 into a CZ-RAMI. As I understand, the RAMI is about the same size/weight as the 82.
JeepGeeek
member
seems like Mozambiquing a BG would be a real good way to find yourself in a heap of trouble.
Nevermind that he started it, was a foot taller than you, and had a sawed-off shotgun in his hand he was raising in your direction, while coked out of his mind and shouting his intent to kill you, burn your wife, rape your children and eat your dog.
As soon as the DA finds out that you shot him in the head, their next words will be "execution-style murder". And you are deeply fornicated.
Nevermind that he started it, was a foot taller than you, and had a sawed-off shotgun in his hand he was raising in your direction, while coked out of his mind and shouting his intent to kill you, burn your wife, rape your children and eat your dog.
As soon as the DA finds out that you shot him in the head, their next words will be "execution-style murder". And you are deeply fornicated.
Treo
member
DW is actually very happy W/ hers. She's got some medical issues W/ her hands & 9X18 is about as big as she wants to go. but she can operate all the functions of the pistol & can tolerate the recoil , shoots very accurately W/ it & likes the concealability .
PCRCCW
Member
Jeep....Well Ive got news for the DA and a simple Mozambiquing a BG if anything like this ever happens to me, god willing it will not.
They will be asking me how come I felt compelled to unload 20 rnds of 9mm JHP's into him....most of which were after he was down! The honest anwwer Id imagine is ....I was scared to death. My finger had a mind of its own.
I hear alot of shooters that have had this happen to them, cops, feds, regular ccw permit holders etc. Have a kinda "didnt know how many shots were fired" way about them after a real shooting.
Shoot well.
They will be asking me how come I felt compelled to unload 20 rnds of 9mm JHP's into him....most of which were after he was down! The honest anwwer Id imagine is ....I was scared to death. My finger had a mind of its own.
I hear alot of shooters that have had this happen to them, cops, feds, regular ccw permit holders etc. Have a kinda "didnt know how many shots were fired" way about them after a real shooting.
Shoot well.
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