Anybody else taking extra precautions for HD the next few nights?

[Green Lantern]

At one time, not too many years ago, trick-or-treaters were YOUNG CHILDREN. Now, many trick-or-treaters are older teens and adults.

This is supposed to be a fun night for YOUNG CHILDREN, not a night of 6'6" big guys driving cars around harming nice folks that are passing out candy and treats to YOUNG CHILDREN.

What is wrong with these clueless adult idiots that are doing this stuff? Even just trick-or-treating as an adult is just not the right thing to do

+1

For the most part I had younger children, had some teenagers or "big for their age" kids toward the end. But not as many as I've had in other years.

Now, I'm one of them geek/nerds who likes costuming, so I always dress up on Halloween for work and/or giving out treats. I said in another thread that I want to take the place of the old guy over in the next "holler" I remember from MY childhood (RIP ). I remember he ALWAYS gave out the BEST candy! (he didn't dress up tho!)

My criteria is simple - if *I* won't eat it, I won't give it out to the kids!

As for HD, I'm (almost) always armed at the house anyway. Halloween is no exception. Paranoid or prepared? That's for each of us to decide, I choose the latter.

 

[FourTeeFive]

When I was a kid I used to dress up in a GI outfit for Halloween and walk around the neighborhood with my Dad's Japanese war trophy (your basic bolt-action Japanese rifle). People thought nothing of a ten year old with a real rifle. Ah well, times have changed.

P.S. - That rifle was heavy!

 

[hso]

I guess all those who were so judgemental and/or were among the ranks of the would-be comedians who couldn't respond seriously and had a field-day with this thread the other night: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231117 will either take no notice of this new thread, or they almost certainly won't have anything constructive to say in any case if they do take notice.

Lou629,

You threw down the gauntlet by saying "all those ... won't have anything". One humorous silly reply isn't all.

Getting hit by lightning is more likely, but there is an interesting point to take here.

In areas where gangs are growing or coming into the area you may face an intiation-shooting threat. We didn't consider that as much of a possibility in the original thread. That would be reason to be on alert for any "older kids" coming to the door.

Does anyone have any more information about the shooting and what the older gentleman was shot with?

 

[Raptor5191]

Yeah, paranoid.

A meteor might fall on my head today too. Maybe I should carry my callup kit in a ruck all day, eh?

 

[NineseveN]

I find it uncanny that a bunch of folks that are pretty much religious when it comes to carrying a firearm daily in order to be prepared for a situation that statistically will never happen to the vast majority of us would call anyone else's preparations for anything, "paranoid".

You can argue whether or not one is more paranoid than the other, or whether neither is paranoid, but to try and separate one from the other based on what amounts to a minute difference is truly the mark of futility.

Now if the OP asked if he should put up razor wire and set claymores in his yard, that'd be one thing, this is not the case here.


The fact is, this time of year gives a rise to gang activity in many areas in the Northeast; after Halloween, the weather starts to get too cold and most of the joy-crimes and gang on non-gang assaults and robberies hibernate until the spring. Lou lives in Jersey, perhaps not the nicest area either...those of you in Alabama or L.A. might not understand, but coming from an area in Pittsburgh that sat in the middle of a huge three-way gang territory between the Crips, Bloods and the LaW, I can tell you that my experience is that Halloween can be a big night for crime, at least compared to what normally happens November through May.


But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and make fun of someone who's in a different situation that you couldn't possibly fathom if you're not in it, I guess that's the 'in thing' to do these days.

 

[Lou629]

hso...

I threw no such gauntlet. My post was speaking of "all" those who could not be serious or had to make jokes and try to ridicule, as opposed to your take on it which seems to be that i was saying that all the posts ( as used to describe every one of them ) were jokes.

While that was certainly not the case, the serious replies were few and far between, with at least one moderator among those having a good time at my expense. That's fine, they can have their fun, but in the latest thread i was attempting to remind the would-be comedians that their pathetic attempts at humor mocks the "preparedness" that is so often spoken of on this forum, by most of the members, in many of the threads, as Nineseven was good enough to point out above. ( NineSeven, LTNS!! Thanks for the support! )

Since my original thread of 10/30 has now been merged with this newer one about the man being shot, some clarity may have been lost, but whoever merged them saw they were related, and it's too late now. The first 48 posts in this thread were from 10/30 & 31, which were the ones i was referring to above. Post 49 is where the threads were merged.

 

[mmike87]

I'll share a story that happened to us Halloween night.

After returning from taking our 6 year old trick or treating, we were conducitng the annual Great Candy Inventory even in our living room.

I kept hearing a noise from the front door. My wife heard it, too and we looked at each other. She tried to look out the window, and then went to the door assuming there were more trick or treaters (it was about 8:45pm).

As I tyically do in such situations, I positioned myself with a clear view of the door. She opened the door, screamed, and tried to fling the door shut.

In walks some sort of person in a Ghoul-like costume. The person was carrying some candy, making funny noises, and began walking into the house.

The wife and I both incorrectly assumed that the other knew what was going on. I was cautious, not knowing who it was - but assumed she did (and vice versa). I kept a close eye on the creature as it slowly walked around my living room. I didn't feel threatened, and was ALMOST sure that it was a neighbor trying to scare our 6 year old.

I still had my P228 on me from being out trick or treating. It never left the holster, as I didn't feel threatened. The creature was obviously a female, wearing jewlery on her hands, and had nice shoes on. Didn't seem too suspicious. But I remained very cautious regardless.

It turned out it was a neighbor. We were right.

I was kind of ticked. If she wanted to scare our kid, she could have let us in on it. She knows I CCW, and knows we're very much pro-self-defense. She assumed we knew it was her. We didn't.

I let her know that doing things like that can possibly put her in danger.

Although the outcome was fine, I can't help but feel like we did everything wrong. The situation was VERY confusing.

What if the "creature" HAD been someone trying to take advantage of Halloween to gain access to our home?

What could I have done differently? It would have been pretty embarassing to tackle our neighbor or shove her out the door. Although I never considered drawing on her (although I was conscious that I was armed if necessary) I did consider physically stopping her. I am certainly under no obligation to allow anyone to just walk right even, even if they are not threatening us in any way.

 

[expvideo]

In a nation of some 300 million people, there is_apparently_a single instance of somebody being assaulted by trick-or-treaters. You were, on some level, right. Accordingly, could you tell me how tight I must keep my buttocks tactically clenched in anticipation of assault by musket-wielding Pilgrims come Thanksgiving? Thanks in advance and I await your reply.

One person in 300 million, huh? This year alone:

10 people shot in San Francisco on Halloween
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=qw1162415343354B224

Here's a teen shot on Halloween
http://www.heraldsun.com/orange/10-784115.html

We already know about the incident in FL
http://www.news4jax.com/news/10212516/detail.html

Several people shot at a taxi cab in Michigan
http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061102/NEWS01/611020327/1002

Another shooting in Cali puts 2 in the hospital
http://kcbs.com/pages/118392.php?contentType=4&contentId=233500

5 in canada injured in a shootout
http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/regions/ajax/story/3755190p-4341745c.html

A 13 year old girl was shot at a halloween party (not on halloween)
http://www.sohh.com/articles/article.php/10132


Now, just counting what I got on the first page of the google news search... That's 20 people. Anyone care to stop acting like Kerry and just admit you're wrong? No more mentioning venomous creatures. If you really want to say that 300 people a year are killed by animal venom, bear in mind that Halloween is a day, not a year, and 300/365 is LESS than one.

EDIT: side note, if every day was halloween, and they all had numbers like that, we're looking at 7300 people shot every year.

 

[hso]

Lets try to keep things clear and neither diminish the numbers or pad them.

Only one incident out of the list provided was a person in their home who was shot by people that came to the door. That is the gentleman in FL who was shot in the face when 3 people came to the door in masks.

The first 2 and the 5th were street parties, the 6th broke out in a house between individual, the taxi cab in the 4th one was on the street and the poor kid in the last one was shot in a drive by or a "fight over a do-rag".

None of these are dependent or influenced by Halloween except the FL victim. All the others are either related to street gatherings that can happen on St. Patrick's, Easter, 4th of July or any time a large group of people congragate in a street party or to criminal activity that happens any day of the week. The taxi one does defy classification.

 

[expvideo]

Fine and dandy, but it still sounds like a Kerry-esque excuse to me. Everyone said halloween was no big deal. Then 20 people were shot. Now it's all excuses, and no "oh, guess I was wrong".

Over the years I've found that it's best to admit when you are wrong. Apparently other peopel have come to different conclusions.

 

[JMusic]

Next year I'm putting sharks in my moat as another recomended.

Jim

 

[Joe Demko]

Over the years I've found that it's best to admit when you are wrong. Apparently other peopel have come to different conclusions.

Hso already said it. Crimes that occur on Halloween are not necessarily because it was Halloweeen. So far, there's been one documented case of attempted-homicide-by-trick-or-treat. You are perfectly welcome to use that to justify spending every second of your life in Condition Plaid if you want to do so. For my part, I refuse to live my life that way. I take prudent precautions against realistic threats. I WILL NOT permit the odd whackjobs and crazies whose crimes are reported nationwide to panic me into barricading myself in my home and feeling like every hand is raised against me. You do what you think is prudent. Whichever of us is murdered by holiday-themed bandits first loses.

 

[JMusic]

I know I made lite of this event but I too believe that I am prepared every day to address threats how and when they come. I also refuse to become a hermit or worse yet act as a paraniod gun owner. If you want times to be on higher alert you have no more than look at this current weekend we are in. First weekend of the month and a full moon.

Jim

 

[Stevie-Ray]

The wife and I spent the 30th driving around the city for the annual "angels night" patrol with the Citizen's Patrol Watch. I won't join because they won't let you carry a weapon, and I am not going to handicap myself more than once a year. It was fun, though.

 

[XLMiguel]

Back in VA I handed out those cuyalume necklaces (the 'hood only had one street light, poorly placed) along with them bite-sized candy bars for the kids, cold 12 oz malt beveridges for the adults who were so inclined. No problems, it was a generally happy neighborhood. Then again, we pretty much knew all the kids and adults who came around. Worst thing that ever happened was some smashed pumpkins in the wee-wee hours. Oh, well

New 'hood in SF only has a couple kids, so it was a slow light, too much leftover candy . Mr Tomcat was in my pocket anyway, just like in VA. Chance favors the prepared mind.

 

[hso]

To put this back on the right track -

Lou629 has made us think about the issue of how do we react to someone knocking on the door when there's something of an expectation it. During a holliday where we know people go door to door like Halloween do we increase our guard? I don't think so, personally.

But, there's a flip side to consider. Do our expectations cause us to drop our awareness? The one guy that was shot certainly would have been more cautious about finding 3 men at his door any other time. He may have opened it or he may not have, but he wouldn't have been expecting people to come to the door like that. I know that living on a dead end road in a semi-rural pocket surrounded by pricey subdivisions I'd be at risk of just thinking, "Who the heck comes all the way down here trick-or-treating?" if someone came to the door on Halloween.

So just because we've got a big bowl of goodies in one hand, we shouldn't forget that when an out of the ordinary situation sets our "Spidey Sense" off listen to it. It's the little voice that whispers "That ain't quite right." that can save your bacon.

 

[Joe Demko]

The topic of the thread was "Anybody else taking extra precautions for HD the next few nights?" Bolding mine. I submit that normal, prudent precautions that you should take every night of the year are sufficient to preserve life and limb. The man from FL who got shot in the face would not have been shot by using everyday good sense. He knew something was wrong and opened the door anyway. He'd have been shot in the face just the same if it had been May 17 and he opened the door to hinky strangers.
Way back towards the beginning of the thread, Jeff White pointed out that stress kills. Do you have some reason to believe that there are people who really, truly want to kill you? Not just kill somebody, but kill you specifically? If so, then I can see living your life as if there are assassins in every group of trick-or-treaters or a hit squad posing as Christmas Carolers. If you aren't a target, then you are killing yourself stressing out over imagined danger. The same precautions that keep you safe will serve you on Halloween, Christmas, and all the other holidays too. Except maybe Arbor Day. I don't trust those tree-huggers; they know I burn wood for heat.

 

[Lou629]

Joe D.,
You and Jeff White talk about 'stress' as if that were THE main motivation behind my having asked the question about taking any 'extra' precautions in the first place. My idea was that during the two nights of the halloween season, there would be a multitude of strangers coming to the door, and/or some possibly malicious mischief ( which is hardly unheard of in these parts )being an expectation during this time. Hence, an 'extra' potential for the possibility of trouble.

Depending on where one lives, obviously YMMV. However I took exception to a lot of the ridicule and poor jokes that came my way for having asked the question in the first place. I refer you to my post #82 above:

i was attempting to remind the would-be comedians that their pathetic attempts at humor mocks the "preparedness" that is so often spoken of on this forum, by most of the members, in many of the threads

Next time maybe i'll ask a question like: [I]"what gun/caliber/grenade launcher/howitzer for Zombie/Mutant/Alien/JBT's"? [/I] Those type posts seem to be very popular, don't seem to get the authors ridiculed, called paranoid or stressed-out, and yet they are a complete waste of bandwidth. High Road Indeed!

 

[Knotthead]

Oops! Sorry. Had posted this in wrong thread.

Removed.

 

[expvideo]

hso said:

To put this back on the right track -

Lou629 has made us think about the issue of how do we react to someone knocking on the door when there's something of an expectation it. During a holliday where we know people go door to door like Halloween do we increase our guard? I don't think so, personally.

But, there's a flip side to consider. Do our expectations cause us to drop our awareness? The one guy that was shot certainly would have been more cautious about finding 3 men at his door any other time. He may have opened it or he may not have, but he wouldn't have been expecting people to come to the door like that. I know that living on a dead end road in a semi-rural pocket surrounded by pricey subdivisions I'd be at risk of just thinking, "Who the heck comes all the way down here trick-or-treating?" if someone came to the door on Halloween.

So just because we've got a big bowl of goodies in one hand, we shouldn't forget that when an out of the ordinary situation sets our "Spidey Sense" off listen to it. It's the little voice that whispers "That ain't quite right." that can save your bacon.

Very well put, I can agree with that.

 

[Matt King]

I will give out candy until about nine, to just about anyone, though older teens will get a funny look. After nine, I don't open the door to anybody, unless it's a really young child, who started trick our treating late. Those instances are rare.

Some of you guys really need to relax, and calm down. It's Halloween we're talking about, not Ramadan in Iraq.

 

[jeepmor]

Confucious say...

.....House that hands out best treats does not get toilet papered.


Sure, I could probably dig up some statistic of people dying on their birthday, does that mean I'm not going to participate....uhmmmm, no.

This reading is very entertaining.

I went to a party where most the adults hung out in driveway of the house while live bands played in the garage. We made more noise than any punk teens could even consider.

Some of you need to get out, not just more, but out, in the world, with the rest of us. There are more good people out there than bad, but be ready, but be realistic too. In my neighborhood, I'm more worried about having excess candy than excess disgruntled paper tossers.

jeepmor

 

[vynx]

maybe I should let this thread die but here goes.

I did take extra precautions not so much worried about a home invasion as just teenage vandalism - it does seem as if Halloween brings out more vandalism.

Normally, I have the gates to our yard locked but for halloween I had the front gate bungee corded open so trick or treaters could come up to the door. I also made sure that I hadn't left anything around that could be stolen or thrown back at the house or a window - such as plants in small pots in front yard, extra dog water bowl, etc.

Then I made sure I had more lights on than normal and I had a small pepper spray in my pocket - I might go out and chase some teenagers but not with a gun.

Uneventful night only one child came to our door. Last year we had 4 older teenage boys come by after 9pm - I told them we were out of treats - an hour or so later bam bam bam - we got egged and boy did those eggs sound LOUD when they hit the front door! Not to mention the cars. I can't get too mad tho - rememberring all the crap I caused when I was a teenager.

 

[Ryder]

I'll admit I was wrong for parking my new car in the kid's garage just because of a rumor that some neighborhood punk was bragging about destroying it.

It was only there for a week. When I started it up to bring it home it blew a handful of sunflower seeds out of the tailpipe. Damn critters weren't even wearing masks!

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I have to admit, I had the 12 gauge loaded up next to the bed, and the 38 special in the nightstand for backup.

Although I was up until 4 am Thursday watching horror films, so taking my surprise throughout Halloween night was highly unlikely.