Anyone else have problems with proof of residency?

[ChaoSS]

Ok, so I'm sorry if this isn't the right spot for this, I figured this was the closest.

So anyway, where I live I have a PO box, the post office won't deliver to my house. So, on my driver's license, it used to just show my PO box. I bought one gun, with no problem. Next time, different gun store, I ended up having to get a print out from the DMV showing multiple addresses. So now, third gun store, I bought a new toy, driver's license shows the PO box, and I gave a vehicle registration showing my physical and mailing address. No problem. 4th gun store, same thing, no problem. Go back to third gun store for more toys, no problem, until I go to pick up the goodies. Suddenly they notice that my address that I wrote on the 4473 has one zip code, and the zip code shown on my license and on the registration is a different one. Problem is that the registration shows both addresses, but only one city and zip code. So now my toys are still in lockup at the store.

I'm going to the DMV tomorrow to try to get a print out showing everything. I'm not sure though, it might have just the same issue as the registration. They say they need something government issued, which for me means no utility bills. No phone bills. No cable bills. If the DMV doesn't give me something helpful, I may have to pay to change my address there. But, since I still need to have stuff coming in the mail, I would need to change it, and then change it back. And I'm not interested in doing that any time I want to buy something. Anyone else have this dilemma? Anyone else have a solution to this issue?

 

[Tamren]

Would you even need the PO box listed on your driver's license to get things shipped to you? My personal experience with ordering things online, is that often there's a different sections for a shipping address and billing address.

At least in Iowa, if your address on the 4473 doesn't match your address on your ID, and your permit to acquire/CCW a guns shop won't transfer any controlled items.

My suggestion would be to just list your personal address on your DL, and when you have things shipped, give them the PO box as your shipping address.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Hunting or fishing license? (Even if you don't hunt or fish, fishing licenses are usually pretty cheap). Property tax statement?

 

[ChaoSS]

Tamren, i need to have things sent to me from the DMV. This includes registrations on my motorcycles and vehicles, notices for things like the expiration of the medical card on my commercial license, etc.

Navy LCDR, I'm in California, and a one day fishing license costs about 15 bucks. I'd rather avoid paying for that just to get a gun transferred into my name.

My property tax shows up as parcel and lot numbers, sent to my mailing address, with no mention of my physical address.

 

[bigfatdave]

Wow.
My DL address is not my current address, because I've moved since then.
And while I do have a little card from the DMV* in my wallet, the answer is simply "yeah, I moved" whenever it comes up. Which is about never. For guns or anything else.

Shop elsewhere, or don't act like you're questionable. I think this might be a symptom of being too used to asking permission for everything.

* (actually, Ohio calls it a BMV just to be contrary)

 

[ChaoSS]

I'm not acting like I'm questionable. This was caught when the guy took the paperwork to the back to have the owner (who hasn't met me) check everything over. I understand they are just cya. They aren't trying to be contrary, they are trying to make sure they don't have problems with the ATF of CA DOJ. I get that. I just hate having to deal with this.

 

[bigfatdave]

Do they copy your DL in the CA?

Address doesn't go to the BATFE, as far as I know.

 

[ChaoSS]

Well, CA takes just about everything, but I think that this is an issue of all the issue being right for the ATF. Not so sure on all the rules though. Just that everyone needs proof of residency, whether they pay sufficient attention to it or not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Tamren, i need to have things sent to me from the DMV. This includes registrations on my motorcycles and vehicles, notices for things like the expiration of the medical card on my commercial license, etc.

Navy LCDR, I'm in California, and a one day fishing license costs about 15 bucks. I'd rather avoid paying for that just to get a gun transferred into my name.

My property tax shows up as parcel and lot numbers, sent to my mailing address, with no mention of my physical address.

Take the below linked Open Letter to FFLs with you and use the property tax statement.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/08/082911-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls.html

If an attachment is necessary, the FFL should indicate in Section 30c ("For Use by FFL") that a physical address description is attached by writing “physical address attached” or “PA attached.” This attachment may include a “metes and bounds” description such as that appearing on a property deed, or it may consist of directions from the nearest U.S. Post Office or other well-known landmark.

 

[md2lgyk]

Would you even need the PO box listed on your driver's license to get things shipped to you? My personal experience with ordering things online, is that often there's a different sections for a shipping address and billing address.

My personal experience has been that, PO box or not, if the shipping address doesn't match the billing address on the credit card, the shipment will be delayed.

Now that the Real ID Act has been fully implemented here, I'm not sure it's even possible to have a PO box on your driver's license.

 

[tepin]

The instructions on form 4473 outline ID requirements. See 20.a Identification and 20.b. Alternate documentation.
You should be able to show your passport and tax document and be good to go.

I live in MN and vacation in AZ. I anticipated an issue like this so I went and got an Arizona state ID card. They gave me the option of what address to have printed on the card - My MN PO BOX or my AZ home address. Obviously I chose the AZ address as that was the whole point of getting an AZ ID. Come to find out you cannot have a DL in more than one state. Don't know why.

Whatever state you are in you can likely get a state ID card and put your home address on it for gun purchases. My ID was $12.00 and never expires. Just makes things easier.

 

[tepin]

md2lgyk. Agree. The DL application in MN has 2 sections. Mailing address and physical address (which gets printed on the DL). When cops check ID they probably don't care where your mail goes, they want to know where you call home.

 

[denton]

It's an interesting problem.

From a practical standpoint, you are required to give a physical address.

However, unlike "domicile", which is a legally defined term, "residence" is undefined.

You can only have one domicile.

You can have multiple residences, and there is no requirement that you spend any particular amount of time at one of them to establish it as a residence. You can move freely between your residences.

I spent a few months on a consulting gig in Richmond, and lived in a hotel. I was there for an extended period, returning each week to do my work. So I'm pretty sure that I could have legally made a private purchase of a firearm either there, or in the state of my domicile, Utah.

 

[bikemutt]

Do they copy your DL in the CA?

Address doesn't go to the BATFE, as far as I know.

Address doesn't routinely go to BATFE, come audit time though, who knows?

Several LGS around here now take a copy of DL (or other official ID) and attach it to the file copy of the 4473, they just don't want to get into it with ATF if the dreaded audit notice is in the mailbox.

 

[ChaoSS]

It's an issue of come audit time. Not that they need it for anything they need to submit.


I didn't think of a passport. I don't have one, but I've been intending to get one. I don't know what that shows for an address, if anything, but it could be an option for the future.

For now, I went to the DMV, changed my address, got printout, changed it back, and that should be good enough for now. Just don't want to deal with this in the future. So maybe i'll see about the property tax thing, although that says that they need to request a variance, and I'm not sure how long that would take.

 

[tommy.duncan]

Drivers License, CCW, Voter Registration Card
These stay with me at all times. I have never had a problem.

 

[NavyLCDR]

So maybe i'll see about the property tax thing, although that says that they need to request a variance, and I'm not sure how long that would take.

No - the memo specifically states that a variance is NOT required:
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/08/082911-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls.html

Further, ATF has determined that no variance is needed prior to making such transfers. However, to validate a prospective firearm purchaser's legal residence address, FFLs are encouraged to take the following steps:

1. Ask the purchaser if the address indicated on the identification document is the actual residence address, receive an affirmative response, and have no reason to believe the address on the identification document is not the actual, legal residence address of the purchaser;

2. Ask the purchaser to complete ATF Form 4473 with the actual physical location of his or her residence in Section 2, “Current Residence Address,” including county or similar political subdivision. If the space provided on the form in Section 2 is not sufficient, the purchaser should provide the information on a separate sheet of paper and attach it to the ATF Form 4473. If an attachment is necessary, the FFL should indicate in Section 30c ("For Use by FFL") that a physical address description is attached by writing “physical address attached” or “PA attached.” This attachment may include a “metes and bounds” description such as that appearing on a property deed, or it may consist of directions from the nearest U.S. Post Office or other well-known landmark.

 

[shiftyer1]

I live in Texas and have see a Texas ID or dl? I cant remember. Anyway it had a California address. I didn't even know that was an option.

I just assumed it was a pooly trained employee who issued it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I live in Texas and have see a Texas ID or dl? I cant remember. Anyway it had a California address. I didn't even know that was an option.

I just assumed it was a pooly trained employee who issued it.

Both my Wyoming Driver's License and my Washington State ID Card have my Washington address on them. (active duty military, so by WA and WY state laws I can have both).

 

[Zach S]

Would you even need the PO box listed on your driver's license to get things shipped to you? My personal experience with ordering things online, is that often there's a different sections for a shipping address and billing address.

My personal experience has been that, PO box or not, if the shipping address doesn't match the billing address on the credit card, the shipment will be delayed.

In my experience, a different address isn't really a big deal, unless they have different zip codes. And when they're in different states, it can be a major pain.

The credit card companies I deal with will let you list an extra/alternate address for the "we only ship to the billing address" companies. Or would, a few years ago when this was an issue for me.

While I have had a PO box listed on my license, I always had to have the physical address on it as well.

 

[dogtown tom]

bigfatdave
....Address doesn't go to the BATFE, as far as I know.

Nothing "goes to" the ATF unless there are multiple sales of handguns or certain rifles (border states)......."current residence address" is a requirement on the 4473. ATF will not get that 4473 until the dealer goes out of business.

bikemutt .....Several LGS around here now take a copy of DL (or other official ID) and attach it to the file copy of the 4473, they just don't want to get into it with ATF if the dreaded audit notice is in the mailbox.

1. It's the dreaded compliance inspection, not "audit". And ATF doesn't mail the dealer anything. Inspections aren't scheduled and dealers don't get "audit notices" in the mail.....where do ya'll get this stuff?
2. Any dealer who copies the customers DL and attaches it to the 4473 is paranoid without reason. Do they also ask for a stool sample? A thumbprint? DNA? ATF doesn't care to see the drivers license of the buyer, only that the dealer recorded that information on the 4473. Your dealer can attach a dozen documents to the 4473 but that won't save him if he failed to complete Part B correctly.
3. Thousands of compliance inspections are held every year.....if attaching a copy of the drivers license was helpful in the least I'm sure the NSSF would recommend doing so...........they don't.

 

[ChaoSS]

NavyLCDR, the letter you posted references using a rural route address rather than a PO box. I think the one involving PO boxes says it requires a variance.

 

[wep45]

carry a picture of yourself standing in front of your residence....

 

[ChaoSS]

In fact I'm wondering whether California considers my PO box to be my legal residence. I guess that might be the case, since that is all that they will put on my license, but who knows. If not, none of that stuff applies anyway. Maybe I should write my own letter to the ATF and inquire of what is required.

 

[Mman]

How about a certified copy of a notarized affidavit of residence signed under penalty of perjury and filed with the town clerk? What dealer would refuse something with so many official certifications?

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