Anyone go for a Physical lately, and get asked to take "the survey". Gun Control

[Deanimator]

Ah, so it isn't about presenting facts at all; you are just using that as an excuse in an attempt to de-legitimize my opinion and the presentation of facts that I have made.

Your opinion delegitimizes itself by its very lack of logic and ignoring of obvious facts.

The anti-gun cult has been VERY open about trying to destroy the "gun culture" and having organizations like the AMA and AARP ready at hand to spread anti-gun and anti-self-defense propaganda is an essential part of that.

 

[Deanimator]

They aren't compiling a list of gun owners, and even if they did, that list would have no force of law since it wasn't collected by the government. In fact, they legally can't share your personal information.

The IRS can't legally share your tax information either... but they did.

Anything that the government is willing to use against you has the EFFECTIVE force of law, ESPECIALLY when those tasked with upholding the law are instead dedicated to violating it and using it as a weapon against political and cultural enemies.

It's like you've never heard of the Tea Party, the IRS, Lois Lerner, John Koskinen, Loretta Lynch or Eric Holder.

A more plausible explanation is that you're simply dismissing inconvenient facts.

 

[Deanimator]

If you believe that totalitarian government is going to collect the guns, they aren't going to rely on lists. They will come and search every home and workplace in the US.

That could cause widespread disaffection and ultimately physical danger for those doing the searching.

Better to start by casting a narrower, targeted net.

But you already knew that, hence your previous support for REGISTRATION, AKA "Universal Background Checks".

 

[Deanimator]

The CDC and Surgeon General don't make laws.

Neither do the President of the United States and the Director of the IRS.

Perhaps somebody should have told them...

 

[RX-79G]

I hear the AMA has a hidden bunker under the Rockies. On Saturdays they have barbecues with the UN soldiers in the adjoining cavern.

Deanimator, we've already dedicated a whole thread to everyone on this board concluding that they don't agree with your conspiracy driven world views.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ation-of-the-gun-control-lobby-racism.811938/

Instead of another fruitless antagonism against my person, why not go after this guy's brother, as I'm sure he is just a spy sent to infiltrate out ranks:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-brother-shooting-today.813907/#post-10416425

 

[Deanimator]

I hear the AMA has a hidden bunker under the Rockies.

I hear that there are people on firearms related message boards pushing anti-gun propaganda.

But if you'd believe that, you'd believe that the IRS was targeting people solely on the basis of their political beliefs...

 

[RX-79G]

I hear that there are people on firearms related message boards pushing anti-gun propaganda.

But if you'd believe that, you'd believe that the IRS was targeting people solely on the basis of their political beliefs...

Whatever. I don't have time for your conspiracies or personal attacks, real or imagined. They are more of your off topic distracters.

The topic is answering firearms questions that a doctor asks and the ramifications:
1. Can YOUR doctor take away your personal firearms?
No. An individual doctor cannot do that. Your spouse has much more power to do that.

2. Does the AMA (or CDC) have additional power with congress because you answered a survey honestly?
No. They will present their findings either way. It is up to us if their raw data is full of our lies or not.

3. Could survey data be turned into a registry?
Sure, as can 4473s, email and the membership on this forum. Isn't the purpose of owning guns to prevent the government from confiscating them en masse?

That's the thread topic and my answers. Don't make it into something it is not.

 

[Deanimator]

Whatever. I don't have time for your conspiracies or personal attacks, real or imagined.

Apparently you don't have time for the documented history of the last eight years of the IRS.

They are more of your off topic distracters.

I can't help it if you're "distracted" by documented facts.

1. Can YOUR doctor take away your personal firearms?]/quote]
It depends upon the state, in particular whether CA passed that particular law. I believe they did.

2. Does the AMA (or CDC) have additional power with congress because you answered a survey honestly?

The AMA has the UNDISPUTED power to push its propaganda to a captive audience of MILLIONS. You won't even try to deny it.

3.. Could survey data be turned into a registry?

And as in the case of sham "universal background checks", I'm sure you'd be completely supportive of it.

 

[larryh1108]

They aren't compiling a list of gun owners, and even if they did, that list would have no force of law since it wasn't collected by the government. In fact, they legally can't share your personal information.

You don't get it but that's ok because you never see the other side in your posts. You can tell your doctor anything you want and we will do the same.

I assume you are against any form of UBCs?
If you are, why?
It's only a list that, in and of itself, is harmless and this list is nothing more than names, right?
BUT!
This list can/will be used in the next step in gun confiscation should that ever come to pass. However, since you feel you are in no danger of any list taking your guns then it's safe to assume you don't care if UBCs become a reality. After all, it's just a list, right?

The doctors are gathering data for another kind of list for gun owners. We have no idea of the accuracy of the lists (see posts above about inaccurate records) and even though the data means nothing today, it is being collected to give an anti-gun coalition data to circumvent the 2nd amendment by calling 'gun violence' an epidemic and attacking it thru the fallacy of public safety. They could use this data to raise insurance premiums for gun owners because they have a greater risk of shooting themselves whether accidentally or on purpose, they could force medical riders ($$$) for the same reasons. They could use this data to use push thru stronger mental health exclusions and then use this same list to take away your guns because you took anti-depressants when your parent/spouse/child died. Yep, totally harmless list. You can put your name on any list you want. It's your life. We'll do what we want and laugh at your blase attitude.

 

[RPRNY]

Persistence can be a virtue. It is however no substitute for logic or fact. Repeating the opinion over and over again that giving information about firearms ownership during medical surveys has no impact on firearms regulation does not change the facts that there is evidence such information has been collected and misused in the past, that information allegedly protected an confidential has been repeatedly misused by government agencies, or that Congress believed that both examples of prior CDC misuse of such information and future potential thereof required them to impose restrictions on CDC for just that reason.

Opinion: Providing information on firearms ownership in medical surveys is a bad idea
Fact: Such information has been misused in the past and Congress had to act to restrict agency behavior accordingly. Evidence was then provided to support the facts.

Thus, an opinion was shown to have merit.

Simply repeating your opinions, interspersed with snide remarks, over and over again does not any point make. RX-79, you are only being asked to either support your unfounded opinions, which have been contradicted by facts presented here, or cease to use oxygen that could be more effectively used by others who are capable of making a point and supporting that point.

 

[RX-79G]

The doctors are gathering data for another kind of list for gun owners. We have no idea of the accuracy of the lists (see posts above about inaccurate records) and even though the data means nothing today, it is being collected to give an anti-gun coalition data to circumvent the 2nd amendment by calling 'gun violence' an epidemic and attacking it thru the fallacy of public safety. They could use this data to raise insurance premiums for gun owners because they have a greater risk of shooting themselves whether accidentally or on purpose, they could force medical riders ($$$) for the same reasons. They could use this data to use push thru stronger mental health exclusions and then use this same list to take away your guns because you took anti-depressants when your parent/spouse/child died. Yep, totally harmless list. You can put your name on any list you want. It's your life. We'll do what we want and laugh at your blase attitude.

Or, such data could dispel myths about gun ownership, safety and violence. It is, after all, science. Einstein didn't want to believe in quantum mechanics, but was convinced otherwise by the facts.

And like I said earlier, if you think every bit of data you put out about your gun ownership could be used against you, why are you on the internet blabbing about your gun ownership?

or that Congress believed that both examples of prior CDC misuse of such information and future potential thereof required them to impose restrictions on CDC for just that reason.

"Congress", meaning the majority at the time that NRA lobbyists were able to influence.

Your aren't arguing with fact. You're packaging your opinion as something different and more valuable than mine, using the same largely unrelated information to support a house of cards that doesn't exist.

Has the AMA or CDC managed to ban tobacco, a completely unprotected addictive drug responsible for millions of deaths and billions of taxpayer costs? Ask yourself why not and you'll have an idea where I'm coming from.

 

[Deanimator]

Or, such data could dispel myths about gun ownership, safety and violence. It is, after all, science. Einstein didn't want to believe in quantum mechanics, but was convinced otherwise by the facts.

Alchemy, phrenology, eugenics and Lysenkoism were all "science" too. Three out of the four were used in the service of oppression.

 

[RPRNY]

The legislature of the United States imposed funding restrictions on the CDC to limit its misuse of data collection in support of "gun" control legislation. This is a fact, verified by several third party sources presented above. It is a fact that information on firearms ownership has been improperly used in the past and that the threat of such misuse merited legislation to limit such misuse in the future.

Your opinions as the motives of the legislature, conspiracy theories about the role of lobby groups, and ineffective comparisons with other issues (AMA and CDC most definitely influenced Congressional action to place tobacco under FDA regulation, EPA to classify cigarette smoke as a Class A carcinogen thereby allowing OSHA and others to ban workplace and indoor public smoking, and 50 states attorneys general to sue tobacco companies for recoupment of alleged medical costs associated with tobacco use) are just unsupported ideologically skewed opinions. They are less valuable than any opinion that is supported by fact. Thus, your opinions are less valuable than mine or those of others who present facts that inform or support their position.

As Senator Moynihan so aptly said, 'you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts'. If you have an opinion, feel free to share it. But if, as in this case, you can't support it with facts, please don't expect repetition to give it validity.

 

[Deanimator]

It is a fact that information on firearms ownership has been improperly used in the past and that the threat of such misuse merited legislation to limit such misuse in the future.

However if your goal, clandestine or candid, is to END private firearms ownership, there's no such thing as an "improper" use. Anything which advances the narrative... and the cause of disarmament is considered "proper".

Just as there are those who would obfuscate the nature and intent of sharia/jihadist culture, there are those who would obfuscate the nature and intent of the anti-gun cult.

 

[OC-Trainer]

I think you are missing the point on this one. Your doctor, the AMA, CDC etc. Are not the problem here. The fact that ANYONE is compiling a list of gun owners should be a huge red flag to all of us. Ever hear of Hitler and the Nazis? The first thing they did was collect all the different EXISTING lists of gun owners. From there it was game over for Europe. This is no conspiracy. It happened before and could damn well happen again.

This thread has officially reached Godwin's law. It's over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[larryh1108]

Your aren't arguing with fact. You're packaging your opinion as something different and more valuable than mine, using the same largely unrelated information to support a house of cards that doesn't exist.

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. This is all you do. You feel your opinion is right no matter how many people give examples that you are wrong, which is quite often. You present your opinions as fact when, in reality, it is worth what we paid for it just like every other opinion here. Get over yourself, we have.

Has the AMA or CDC managed to ban tobacco, a completely unprotected addictive drug responsible for millions of deaths and billions of taxpayer costs? Ask yourself why not and you'll have an idea where I'm coming from.

I guess you live in a cave. Ever visit a real city? Can you smoke on the streets? In restaurants? Bars? How about tobacco shops? Wait, nobody has done a thing about smoking. I know, what about public buildings? Airplanes? Any government agency? Hmmm, nope again. I guess you are just wrong, yet again.

You can do anything you want. We'll do whatever we want. Just because you say something doesn't mean it's right. You prove that time and time again.

 

[RX-79G]

As Senator Moynihan so aptly said, 'you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts'. If you have an opinion, feel free to share it. But if, as in this case, you can't support it with facts, please don't expect repetition to give it validity.

This thread has gone off the rails, so here is the one and only fact that matters:

This survey will happen whether gun owners participate or not. The data will be analyzed and a report may be submitted to Congress.

Gun owners cannot stop this process, so the motivations of the parties involved is totally beside the point.

The only thing gun owners can do is provide accurate or inaccurate data. If you don't answer the question, you don't count. If you lie, you've just provided the government more evidence that gun ownership is rare.

However, if you tell the truth, you have to opportunity to demonstrate to the AMA, CDC, Congress, etc that gun owners are largely healthy, happy, well adjusted members of society.

And if the AMA or CDC ends up with too much data that doesn't prove the point they want to make, they will simply not publish it. Or, they might publish it anyway - because that is what scientists do.

So aside from conspiracy theories about confiscation lists (even though no firearm data is involved), the survey has more chance of hurting us if we don't participate or lie. If you want your voice heard, this is a place for that voice.

 

[wally]

And if the AMA or CDC ends up with too much data that doesn't prove the point they want to make, they will simply not publish it. Or, they might publish it anyway - because that is what scientists do.

You assume the survey questions are motivated by real scientists, not activists. As a PhD Engineer, I don't consider surveys to ever be scientific data. YMMV. Look at all the surveys that said Trump couldn't possibly win.

Lets go back to the beginning where I said I leave questions not relevant to my medical condition blank -- SS number, hobbies, etc. I just don't want such information available to anyone who shoulder surfs my file. Saying you own guns can make you a target to burglars, SS number can lead to identity theft, that is all the reason I need to to ignore these type of questions, no broader nefarious purposes required. The business office needs my SS number, my doctor and staff most certainly do not. None of them need to know what I do to amuse myself, or what possessions I might own.

 

[rust collector]

There is no need to lie, nor is there anything to be gained from answering such a question. My recommended response: "why do you ask? I'm afraid I don't see the relevance". Medical records last forever, and anything you say may be used against you in ways you do not foresee.

This is merely one person's approach. I do not claim expertise.

Edited to add a +1 to Wally's response, which came in while I was composing.

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm starting to think these types of argumentative threads are a conspiracy started by anti's for the sole purpose of causing hate and distrust among us gun owners. The idea is to divide and conquer. I bet the Mods here must also be in on it to allow these threads to continue, and not locking them immediately.

Gotta go.....need to get to the store for more tinfoil.

 

[Deanimator]

The idea is to divide and conquer.

Certainly there has been no shortage of AHSA type "gun owners" here and elsewhere pushing an agenda that would culminate with there being NO gun owners.

Fifth columnists are neither a new thing nor limited to gun owners.

 

[buck460XVR]

Certainly there has been no shortage of AHSA type "gun owners" here and elsewhere pushing an agenda that would culminate with there being NO gun owners.

Fifth columnists are neither a new thing nor limited to gun owners.

So we should help them by alienating fellow gun owners by condescension and belittling? We need to alienate others neutral to gun ownership by the continued perpetuation of fantasy conspiracies? Like the .22 ammo shortage conspiracy? How about those Executive Orders supposedly going to take all our guns? Wasn't that, according to many, what BO was conspiring from the get-go? As I said pages ago, no one is putting a gun to our heads to answer those questions asked at the doctors office. Doesn't really matter what the agenda is if we don't answer. Ain't really a conspiracy when we know what their agenda is.

 

[RX-79G]

Certainly there has been no shortage of AHSA type "gun owners" here and elsewhere pushing an agenda that would culminate with there being NO gun owners.

Fifth columnists are neither a new thing nor limited to gun owners.

Luckily we have genius level detectives like yourself to sniff them out for us. Thank God you came along to pull the blindfold off all the stupid, easily fooled people on THR!

 

[Deanimator]

So we should help them by alienating fellow gun owners by condescension and belittling?

You mean "gun owners" like Joe Biden?

If somebody is actively working to deprive me of my constitutional rights, the LAST thing I care about is "alienating" them.

Is "Fast & Furious" a "conspiracy theory"? How about "Operation Choke Point"? Is THAT a "conspiracy theory" too?

This nonsensical whitewashing of the other side's (other side from me, anyway) motives is as laughable as calling the Ft. Hood massacre "workplace violence", or describing the Pearl Harbor attack as "an airshow gone wrong".

I care no more about the "alienation" of AHSA types than I do about the "pain" of the recent OSU jihadi.

 

[Deanimator]

Luckily we have genius level detectives like yourself to sniff them out for us. Thank God you came along to pull the blindfold off all the stupid, easily fooled people on THR!

Actually, very few people here are stupid enough to get bamboozled by the Quislings. The real slow ones are the AHSA types who keep peddling the same old propaganda only to receive in response the same sneers and yawns.