Anyone have a AR15 with a Red Dot?

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I have let folks who have never shot a firearm before try shooting a rifle with an optic and without.

Every single one agrees that optical sights make hitting the target easier than iron sights.

I like the Aimpoint, from what little experience I have the Eotech seems pretty good, the Trijicon Reflex 2 can be a pain in the butt at times but it works well enough for me.

The ACOG is a wonderful thing, shame I did not buy several when they were almost half the current price, but a standard telescopic sight of good quality on a nice mount is quite capable and much less expensive.

One thing to keep in mind is that after spending the money to get a good optic you should be willing to spend a bit more to get a solid mount if it does not come with one.

If you get a cheap mount and it is loose you really cannot blame the optic or the rifle...
:)
 
We shoot with A2 iron sights co-witnessed with Aimpoint CompM2 4MOAs. Works very well for SA and FA.

Zak Smith: Nice set up. It looks to me like you have a Larue AP QD mount and Troy Ind. BUIS. Thats exactly what I'm going to get for my 6920. If it's good enough for Pat_Rogers (2) then it's good enough for me.
 
I have a number of AR15s with Aimpoint ML2s and M3s on them. I have both 4 MOA dots and 2 MOA dots. I have shot them from three feet out to 500 meters on paper.
First of all, let me say that in my opinion and in my experience, the 2 minute dot defeats the whole point of having a dot optic on the gun. As was mentioned, the point of the dot optic IS NOT to shoot tight precision groups on paper targets. In my seldom humble opinion, I think the 2 minute dot is for people who really want a scope but don't think it is tactical enough for them (they want to look like the GiIs in Iraq but really want to be shooting a scope). This whole problem comes from people being locked into the idea that tight groups are good. In some shooting sports they are. For self defense they arn't. The dot is to make rapid hits to the center of mass on a human. Making rapid hits means having a big dot that you can pick up instantly. If you happen to find yourself in one of the better known shooting schools, one of the first lessons you will be taught is that the opject of the game is to shoot handspan sized groups, COM, as fast as possible. When you start shooting tight groups on the paper, they know you aren't shooting fast enough. Defensive shooting (along with IPSC, IDPA, 3-Gun etc.) are a constant struggle between speed and accuracy. You always want more of both, but the two things usually work against each other. In defenisve type shooting, a 5-6" group is good enough. Having all your shots go through one hole actually may not be as effective as four shots each a couple inches apart.
That being said, this doesn't mean that you can't make some pretty precise shots with a dot.
I have no idea how many times I have posted this, but if you are worried about the dot covering the target, you have your optic zeroed incorrectly.
Let me offer you an example. Let's say you are shooting iron sights. The front post quickly becomes wider than the target. When this happens, you don't just give up and say the sights are no capable of hitting the target: instead, you simply put the target as close to the center of the front post as you can. Likewise, you don't zero your iron sights so the bullet impacts in the center of the front post (vertically). You zero your iron sights so the target is sitting on top of the front post either 6 0'clock or point of aim/point of impact.

The dot is no different. For precise, longish range, think of the dot like you would an iron front sight. You put the exact spot you want to hit at the very tip top of the dot. Remember your high school geometry days ? They told you that a concentric circle met a line or another circle at precisely one spot. That infinitely small one spot is the very tip top of the circle. That is the point you zero your sight to hit. At close range, for quick snap shots, this is close enough. But on long shots, if gives you a precise point to place on the target. Let's say you are shooting a silhouette target at 200 yards. You would have the dot positioned, so that the top of the circle cut the center of the "A" zone instead of covering the "A" zone with the dot.


I also highly recommend the LaRue mount and the Troy BUIS. This is the stuff you buy when you decide to forget the notion of trying to save a few bucks by buying inferior gear. In other words, both items are top of the line.
 
I started with a Trijicon reflex sight as I liked the no battery feature but I found a major weakness. They use a darkened sight lens to help the amber triangle show up. It made targets more difficult to see in anything but bright sunlight. Also some targets washed easily on certain backgrounds. I don't like the Trijicon reflex now and do not recommend them.
Pat
 
GunGoBoom ;

Hey Cesium, could you please tell me why it is, if you know, that on Tantal's site, when you click on the "Kobra and other sights like the PK-AS" link, he lists many different types of red dots but NONE are designated as the PK-AS? Do it go by another name, or what?

The website is abit messy and hard to navigate. That link you list is for Kobra sights only, and there are three specific variants.

The link you want is: http://www.tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/collimator.html

Keep in mind a lot of the Russian sights are designed for the AK-style sidemount. You'll want to chat to Tantal and see if the sight you're after has a weaver-type mount option or you'd be stuck with an optic that can't mount to your AR.
 
444
I wholeheartily agree with you. I have shot a red dot sight for a few years now. Just use to shoot irons. Once we got isssued M68's and I got to shoot them. I was sold. The whole point of the red dot is speed. That's why we called it the Red "Dot of Death" It made the execution part of engagment quicker with out the need for precision of lining up front/rear sights.

I have been able to lay in 5 rd groups the size of a Quarter at 50 yds on my belly with a red dot. I have no problems hitting steel out to 300M with one.

If you looking for more precision, then you not using the right tool.
Like anyhting you need to decide what you want to do with the red dot.

ACOG's are great, but again, right tool for the job. I don't need to make a 4-5oo m shot with a 5.56MM. I want something that is smokin fast within 50 m and will allow me to hit out to 300m.

if your looking for 1/8" groups at 100M then a red dot is the wrong tool.

(Theirs a name for that, it's called Benchrest) :evil:
 
Yes, that washout problem is part of why the Reflex is such a pain in the butt. At night I can see the dot quite well, but then seeing the target through the sight becomes difficult.

Needless to say, I have not recommended them for a while, but I continue to use mine until I get an Aimpoint.

You can use the ACOG up close, but it is slower than a nice big dot.

What does everyone think of reticles other than dots?
 
I have two Trijicon Reflex ll dot optics.
The 3 MOA dot oes washout even in moderate sunlight.
The 6MOA dot does not washout, even in bright sunlight, at least not for me.

I use the Kill-flash lens with the optical sights and it provides a big improvement in dot clarity and the abilty to see it in very bright light.
 
Onmillo,

Does the killflash negatively impact visibility through the sight? The ruby-coated lens is...quite reflective, which is a bad thing. I remember the killflash on my Aimpoint on my M4 in the army worked well, and hopefully the killflash on the Reflex II works well too. I just want to make sure it's not cutting too much light out.

Any experience with the polarizing filter? I probably won't use it, but am curious how it works.

That said, MidwayUSA just lost a $600 sale because they didn't take American Express. Brownells got my order for the Reflex II, two killflashes (one for the friend who let me use his orignally), and a bunch of other goodies. Oh well, their loss.
 
I have a polarizing filter around here somewhere.
I wasn't impressed enough to keep track of where I put it so,,,

The Kill-flash does nothing to impede vision, your eyes will filter the lines out and you see right through them without your brain conciously registering their being there.
The same optical illusion allows the dark background the Kill-flash provides to enhance the optical clarity of the dot.
 
Before taking the plunge...

try out an ~30 BSA scope(can be had at Walli world)...If you like it, then by quality :cool: ...I took my BSA(Mounted High on the M4gery's handle) out for a short workout yesterday ,and even after being knoced around a few times in the prior week, it still held minute of 20oz Gatorade/Coke bottle off hand at 75-80 paces(~ 65-70yds). I now find I have to force myself to practice with the irons(excuse for more shooting) ,I am leaving the BSA on my M4gery ,and getting one for the AK too ;) ...
 
I've got an EOtech on mine...

FreedomRifle_sm.jpg


Love it. Cleared 14 tincans with 15 shots at 20 yards as fast as I could pull the trigger.
 
Hey Geek!

Did you use the Luepold Mark 4 AR mount or is that something else which holds your EOTech on top of the hand rail?

I prefer hand rail mout so I can still use the peeps and the only hold up for me buying a 550 is the mounting dilemma

PICT0005.gif
 
FederalistWeasel and GeekWithA.45

Does your carry handle mount make it hard to use the larger peep aperture :confused: ? My mount turned my large circle aperture into a half moon-like one :eek:! The way things are I am forced to use the long range(smaller) peep, but it doesn't matter because for a close shot I would use the ,"Dot of Death", and for a far shot I don't have to switch apertures(plus I shoot that one better any way) :D
 
Geek,

Mine looks like that one, just made by Leupold I paid $29.00 for mine so I guess it'll work. I'm just itching to slap an EOTech ontop of my new toy.


Too Many,

My peeps work just fine with the Leupold mount the "site hole" under the mount itself does not interfear with the use of the iron sites any.

TFW
 
Well then its just me...

I guess I have a Big Head and my windage is over too far trying to compensate :scrutiny: :D ! I just picked up and handled my M4gery and I guess I will just have to det used to the slightly different sight picture with the more open aperture.
 
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You can use this beauty on an A2 upper: http://botac.com/eotcarcowmou.html

It's fully adjustable vertically so you can get different optics to properly co-witness with the stock sights on an A2. One note though..find another vendor other than Botac. That was the first link I spied so I pasted it.
 
Geek

Thanks for the heads up on Midway, been looking and just ordered one. Ought to do just fine.

Rabbi
 
The Kill-flash does nothing to impede vision, your eyes will filter the lines out and you see right through them without your brain conciously registering their being there.
I found the kill flash to be very annoying and made it difficult if not impossible to make any kind of precision or aimed shots on targets, especially smaller ones, at 100 yards and out. My eyes never seemed to filter the honeycomb out. I actually do better with it with the front cover closed and using it like the original OEG type sights. If your using the kill flash for just that, killing the flash, you have zero flash with the cover closed(for that matter, the dot doesnt show from the front at all, in any light or angle) and the dot doesnt wash out as much as it does with it open or a kill flash installed.
 
I have an Aimpoint comp ml2 with the 2moa dot mounted on a swan sleeve on top of my m4. I tried the 4 moa dot but found it to be too large for any distance ove 50 or 60 yards. traded with a guy at work who had the 2 moa and never looked back. very fast sight picture and the 2 moa is big enough for close quarters but small enough for some serious distance.
we tried the EOTECH sight at my job a few years ago but no one seemed to like it... people complained the retical was too busy.
 
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