Anyone have a clue why this is occurring?

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Gaffer

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My son is preparing to hunt elk in Colorado and purchased a Kimber .35 Whelen in stainless and plasitic stocked and to lessen the recoil a bit had a muzzle brake installed as he is not a big person. He has been practicing and asked me to reload for him. There were various brass and the load I used was not that hot, 52.3 grs of IMR 4064 with 200 grain bullets. One brand of brass was one I had never seen or heard about and several of the have blown out a small crack parallel to the length near the base. I'll try to load a picture so you can see. The brass was Doubletap on the head stamp from Utah. I have email them for info but thought maybe some of you may have ideas to help.
These were once fired and 1st time reload. Other brands were OK, such as R-P, and others. Click image for larger version. Here is another photo http://oi60.tinypic.com/keb444.jpg and http://s8.tinypic.com/2gv7bex_th.jpg The hole is at 6 o'clock close to the base web.
 
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That is case head separation cause by either cheap crappy brass or brass that has been reloaded too many times. They were once fired by him and reloaded, but who knows what happened prior to that. For my hunting ammo I stick to known manufacturers.

Love the rifle choice, I would love to have a 35 Whelen but have to settle for my 375H&H. Tell him good luck. I did not even put in for the draw this year...
 
Strange that the crack is nearly identical in both pieces of brass. So if this was weak brass or fired many times before without your knowledge, why are both failures identical?

Could there be something going on in this particular rifle with chamber support? Would it be good to know if when extracted the crack occurred in same location relative to chamber insertion? Sounds like newer rifle so it must be in newer condition.

I assume both were handloaded at the same time and on the same press. But still, nothing is damaging the brass during resizing or bullet seating.

Interesting cartridge. Not easy to find the brass I bet.
 
Case head separation usually occurs going around the case in the other direction and higher up?? Looks like a pin hole burned right through it.:eek:
 
Just to add more info, on one of the cases there were two holes similar to the ones shown only 180 degrees apart. It is possible that this is brass that was more used but if so why the head stamp. That to me indicated new brass to begin with.
The company is DoubleTap and located in Utah. Here is the url http://www.doubletapammo.net/
 
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looks like a bristle from a brass brush broke off and got stuck on the chamber wall of the previous rifle that fired that brass. would make a thin spot in that brass just ripe for a blowout.

murf
 
Have seen this before long time ago not case head seperation. If I remember correctly it was a die issue a small hole in the bottom of the die body cant remember die maker it was on a 303 British. Changed die went away. It was a long time ago and I suffer from sinnilitymaxamus.
Enjoy your time with your son!! For me thats what this is all about
 
I always sort brass by headstamp and use only one brand. Brass is a very important component in quality ammo. I know a lot of pistol loaders do not do this and it drives me crazy. Why wouldn't you want all of your loads to be the same? Scrap that brass and settle on one headstamp.
 
I doubt Double Tap MAKES their own brass. Many companies sell ammo but have the brass made by someone else and it is stamped with another name.

But the million dollar question is.

Was this NEW AMMO once fired or where did the brass come come from?????

Perhaps it was cleaned with wet tumbling and a SS pin was stuck in there! (just had to through that in, sorry);)
 
Old/bad/abused brass. Considering what's at stake, for hunting loads I always start with new brass I fire myself to get true once fired.

I've seen one too many hunting trips cut short because of crappy brass cases and/or plastic hulls.
 
The load I was using and I tore down another later to check it was 52.3 grains of IMR 4064. The IMR data shows start load at 54 grs and max. load at 59.0 grs. It cannot be an over charge as the cases were darn near full at 53 grs. It must be a bad batch of brass. I have email Doubletap and sent them a picture. I do not blame them as this was a reload and my responsibility but I wondered why.
I have always used commercial to hunt with but use reloads to practice and then do a final sight in with the commercial before hunting. Just trying to save the boy some money and a sore shoulder. A .35 Whelen does get your attention and he is not a big lad; that's why he had the muzzle brake put on.

Thank you all for commenting!
 
Andrew Leigh said:
That is NOT case head separation. You are well over pressure, simple as that.


My friends overloads.
Click to expand...

How do you say that, per Hodgdon/IMR data he is below start data?

Still would like to know the history of the brass were was it obtained, old, new, etc? as it looks like it just may be old or defective. But still guessing with no info.
 
Start load at 54, max at 59, but you say the cases were full at 53? Something ain't right! You'd better recheck everything, especially the data sheet. Make sure you had the right caliber data!
 
According to Hatcher's extensive notes on how cases are manufactured, strange defects can occur from the strangest causes.

For example, even in punching out the brass discs from which the cases are drawn, if the original discs are punched out too close together, this may generate hard streaks up the sides of the finished cases which is undetectable in visual inspection.

Hatcher has documented the extensive detective work required to track down sources of defects in brass manufacture in his "Hatcher's Notebook."

In your case, I don't think it's a case of incipient head separation, which usually shows up as a bright ring around the case head before actual case head separation. But I personally would hesitate to speculate on the cause of the problem since it looks like a matter for a real engineering/metallurgical investigation by the manufacturers.

I would not simply throw the cases away since the Utah company (or their supplier) may well need them in this kind of investigation. No brass manufacturer wants to distribute defective brass, and I am reasonably sure the Utah outfit (or its supplier) will want to go further in checking out the problem --whether it's from them or subsequent operations by other reloaders or yourself or whatever.

It's possible that the cause lies in something about your reloading process or equipment (or in the rifle), but since it happened in two cases of a specific brand, it would be worth it for the manufactures themselves to look at the question.

I personally, will not reload for anyone else, since I have been known to make a mistake or two over the years.

And not just in reloading ammunition.

Terry, 230RN

REF:
Hatcher's Notebook pp 206 and following. Also in random places throughout the book. I daresay that maybe 75% of firearms questions can be answered from the contents of this book.
 
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Cartridge case capacities

the cases were darn near full at 53 grs
Click to expand...
Measure the internal volume, see if there is a different between brands. It may have caused high pressure?? My first though is defective brass. Seen same in some 30-06 Fuji ammo.
 
Cut the case apart about 1/4" or so above where it failed, cut another one of the same brand that hasn't been fired yet and check them. See if there's any signs of a defect in the case, you may need to clean and polish the area to see it better.

My guess is that the case wall will be thin, cut apart a good case and see if you can mic it and compare it to the others. Probably a defect from when the cases were made at the factory as pointed out already.
 
That sure doesn't look like any case head separation I've ever seen.

IMHO, that looks like there may be something going on with the chamber.

Either that, or it's a straight up over pressure situation.

GS
 
This is why I asked to see a cross section of the brass, normally the web is the thickest parts of the "walls".

IMG_20150927_175630_328-1_zpstjbecmdy.jpg

You can see (or feel inside with a probe) a "ring" often if they start to thin but cutting it will tell more of the story.

The "blow hole" in the photo you linked to should be in the thickest part of the case. RC has some cross section photos of very thin headed brass but IIRC that was pistol brass.

No chance the brass came from another photo of a rifle in your bucket is there?

deadABolt.jpg
 
Looks like a defect in the brass. A bit odd that two did it identically.

Here is a classic near case head separation.
attachment.php


And the internal "rut" that went with it.
attachment.php


attachment.php
 
Yep, until we can see inside the case we won't know anything. Hopefully the OP can post up some pics so we can take a look.
 
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