MormonWarrior
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Anyone have any experience with 7.62 x 39 Armor Piercing Ammos?
- Thread starter MormonWarrior
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Are they even real? Did you get beef jerky with them?
M855 is clearly not AP, but you said in the other thread you were told they were.
So, how do you know that 7.62x39 is AP?
Steel core ammo is NOT armor piercing.
jpwilly
Member
I've shot thousands of steel core 7.62x39mm and lead core ammo when I was growing up. The steel core did penetrate into tree stumps concrete etc a little bit further and better than the lead core BUT I wouldn't call it AP ammo either.
Master Blaster
Member
I would rate them as very expensive for what you have.
Dont try to shoot the M855 and 856 throught your WASR 10.
As far as the 7.62 x 39 ammo goes who Knows? Does it have a headstamp on the cartridge what does it say??
Dont try to shoot the M855 and 856 throught your WASR 10.
As far as the 7.62 x 39 ammo goes who Knows? Does it have a headstamp on the cartridge what does it say??
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Good grief! 
At a buck-fifty a pop, it better be darn good stuff!
rcmodel
At a buck-fifty a pop, it better be darn good stuff!
rcmodel
MormonWarrior
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Well it say's Armor Piercing on the pack. And the dealer told me it was armor piercing. It's either Armor Piercing or they lied to me. Oh well, it's too late to get a refund. I bought 10 packs of these.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Yes but that's a VERY suspect looking package. Couple minutes on the inkjet and I could make one.
You might do some research on the headstamp etc before you shoot it.
gcrookston
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The price was a little out of line. Maybe Angel Moroni will blast his trumpet through the dealer's ear at 3 a.m. for the next six weeks...
If you'll spend $18.00 for ten rounds of 855, I have 1,000 rounds to sell you. I'll even pay shipping
If you'll spend $18.00 for ten rounds of 855, I have 1,000 rounds to sell you. I'll even pay shipping
Frog48
Member
Yeah, and gunshow peddlers are never dishonest.
dstorm1911
Member
very doubtful since its illegal for a legally licensed ammo dealer to distribute even steel core ammo since its importation in 7.62x39 was banned in 1994..... cannot be imported by a licensed importer, cannot be legally manufactured by a legally licensed manufacturer, cannot be sold by a legally licensed dealer so........ I'd say either the dealer was not a legally licensed dealer or ya just paid alot of $$ for lead core repackaged ammo....... now ya can buy real steel core ammo in the Norinco variety for around $6 per 20 rnds but its not armor piercing either.......
I don't have time to search out the exact law but heres ya an exerpt from the Gunzone outlining the deal...
http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html
"On 2 February 1994, there was issued an ATF encyclical placing 35 importers of "7.62 X 39mm steel core ammunition" and all Federal Firearms Licensees on immediate notice that those rounds were now considered "armor piercing." Quoting ATF Director, John W. Magaw, as stating "…(t)hese bullets are designed, when used in handguns, to pose a life-threatening risk to all law enforcement officers," the notification stated:
Recent production of handguns that are designed to fire 7.62 X 39mm steel core ammunition has resulted in the reclassification of that ammunition as armor piercing (which) can only be sold to law enforcement or governmental agencies. Prior to introduction of these handguns in the marketplace, 7.62 X 39mm ammunition was not considered armor piercing, because it was only used in rifles -- primarily SKS/AK rifles."
I don't have time to search out the exact law but heres ya an exerpt from the Gunzone outlining the deal...
http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html
"On 2 February 1994, there was issued an ATF encyclical placing 35 importers of "7.62 X 39mm steel core ammunition" and all Federal Firearms Licensees on immediate notice that those rounds were now considered "armor piercing." Quoting ATF Director, John W. Magaw, as stating "…(t)hese bullets are designed, when used in handguns, to pose a life-threatening risk to all law enforcement officers," the notification stated:
Recent production of handguns that are designed to fire 7.62 X 39mm steel core ammunition has resulted in the reclassification of that ammunition as armor piercing (which) can only be sold to law enforcement or governmental agencies. Prior to introduction of these handguns in the marketplace, 7.62 X 39mm ammunition was not considered armor piercing, because it was only used in rifles -- primarily SKS/AK rifles."
TEDDY
Member
armor??
steel core was faster and easier to make.sks ammo has not enough velocity to be amour piercing.he conned you.
steel core was faster and easier to make.sks ammo has not enough velocity to be amour piercing.he conned you.
OldBillThundercheif
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It's probably just standard steel-core commie surplus. That stuff used to be the only game in town for 7.62x39 rifles until importation was cut off. Now it's getting less common and more expensive but there is still a lot out there. Look up the headstamps to see if you have E. German or Chinese (the two most common steel-core imports from what I have seen), or something else.
Even though this stuff is getting harder to find, I don't think a reasonable price would be over 3/$1, 50 cents each maybe, if you really needed steel-core ammo for some reason and did not have time to shop around (runaway bulldozer in the backyard?).
Even though this stuff is getting harder to find, I don't think a reasonable price would be over 3/$1, 50 cents each maybe, if you really needed steel-core ammo for some reason and did not have time to shop around (runaway bulldozer in the backyard?).
chris in va
Member
Wait, hold up a second guys.
Define 'armor piercing'. Body armor? Standard FMJ Wolf will do that...jeez, just about any rifle round will.
Define 'armor piercing'. Body armor? Standard FMJ Wolf will do that...jeez, just about any rifle round will.
tnieto2004
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That pack looks really strange (top left)
Roswell 1847
member
True AP Ammo uses Tungsten Carbide because the heat generated by Impact deforms or even melts mild steel cores.
The Steel Core has limited ability to penetrate body work of non armored vehicles which makes it a better choice as a combat round than Lead Cores in my book.
PS
I've shot Steel Core 7.62X54 through the web of some hefty strutural steel I beams.
The Bullet actually melts but maintains it weight long enough to punch out a 5/8 inch hole with the white hot plug of target steel and the now melted slug becoming a secondary projectile.
When fired at more substantial areas of the bottom of a Beam the Bullet fragmented like dust leaving only a dimple.
Very effective against building materials and unarmored vehicle bodywork but with no real AP capability to speak of.
Excellent for shooting through thick trees though.
The Steel Core has limited ability to penetrate body work of non armored vehicles which makes it a better choice as a combat round than Lead Cores in my book.
PS
I've shot Steel Core 7.62X54 through the web of some hefty strutural steel I beams.
The Bullet actually melts but maintains it weight long enough to punch out a 5/8 inch hole with the white hot plug of target steel and the now melted slug becoming a secondary projectile.
When fired at more substantial areas of the bottom of a Beam the Bullet fragmented like dust leaving only a dimple.
Very effective against building materials and unarmored vehicle bodywork but with no real AP capability to speak of.
Excellent for shooting through thick trees though.
gcrookston
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There is a political difference between Armour penetrating and "penetrating" ammo. The SS109/M855 is a penetrator round, but is not an Armour Penetrating round. DUC rounds are APR, but not available to us mad hats.
here is M855 against standard USGI 7.62. The M855 is on the left. This is 1/4" mild steel at 100 yrds.
If you have a 1:7 twist barrel its very good stuff, 1:9 it starts to wobble, anything lower and it will be key holing
Shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-12-15
here is M855 against standard USGI 7.62. The M855 is on the left. This is 1/4" mild steel at 100 yrds.
If you have a 1:7 twist barrel its very good stuff, 1:9 it starts to wobble, anything lower and it will be key holing
Shot with CYBERSHOT at 2007-12-15
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
It's all word games, and it depends on who is writing the words.
In Texas for example, it's only considered "Armor Piercing Ammo" if it can be fired from a handgun. If it's rifle ammo it has no particular legal definition but if you can shoot it in a handgun it is "AP" and illegal to possess. Makes sense huh?
On a Federal level it's defined as: (bold added by me)
Now the gotcha of course is the "handgun" stuff. Shotgun shot is made entirely of steel but of course it's not armor piercing.
Another problem is the Feds have said that even stuff like .308 and 5.56 counts because somewhere sometime someone made a handgun that would fire those.
So, M855 is not armor piercing by definition. It has nothing to do with whether or not it will go through different types of armor, it's solely based on construction materials.
An ATF list includes:
All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.
ATF specifically excludes:
5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.
And the laws around all this are:
ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
Also note that if you have an FFL, even a C&R, you must record the sale of AP ammo.
(Most of this from Bardwell)
Sort of. It was all part of the effort to get rid of "cop killer" bullets that might penetrate police body armor. It was a media hype as I dom't think any cops were ever killed by it. One of the Lethal Weapon movies focused on it though it was kind of stupid the way they did it.
The NRA and others were able to convince the ninnies that they should limit the legislation to primarily pistol ammo only and focus on materials/construction rather than the end result.
The NRA and others were able to convince the ninnies that they should limit the legislation to primarily pistol ammo only and focus on materials/construction rather than the end result.
MachIVshooter
Member
While the importation is banned, you could handload AP 7.62x39mm so long as you don't have a HANDGUN from which to fire it.
It's a little sticky, since there are 7.62x39mm handguns in existence, but technically speaking, so long as you only own rifles in 7.62x39mm caliber, it would be legal to own, possess and manufacture AP. See above in Texasrifleman's post the C&P from 18 USC 921.
All this said, AP 7.62x39mm is rather pointless. Standard ball 7.62x39mm will penetrate all levels of soft body armor, but conversely, vests with plates will defeat AP rounds up to and including 7.62mm NATO.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
It is my personal belief that this will be how they get rid of guns completely. I see a slow erosion of the ability and costs of obtaining ammo til we get to a point where they are willing to rescind the NFA and it won't matter since there will be no ammo, but that's my paranoid side coming out
TexasSkyhawk
Internet SEAL
TexasRifleman said:
Actually, fellow Texan, I agree with you.
That's why I am so heavy into reloading and stockpiling reloading supplies. Finally decided this year to get into casting my own bullets.
Jeff
texasman thats pretty much what they're doing here with 'prohibited' class pistols. If you don't have a prohibited licence you cannot aquire one legally and if you own one you cannot sell it unless the buyer has a licence, or you can have it destroyed. Prohibited licences were only given from before the registry started (bill c608) in which people already have prohibited class firearms. Handguns below 4.1" barrel length, some rifles are classified as prohib like the fal, ak47, hk series, uzi, etc. All the ones that look evil.
Anyways, its the same thing, they are drying up all the prohibited firearms by doing it this way, one day they may start saying that restricted firearms are now no longer allowed, and then eventually non-restricted in which all the firearms will become extinct...
So a question,
Where can you buy tungsten core ammunition in the states?
Anyways, its the same thing, they are drying up all the prohibited firearms by doing it this way, one day they may start saying that restricted firearms are now no longer allowed, and then eventually non-restricted in which all the firearms will become extinct...
So a question,
Where can you buy tungsten core ammunition in the states?
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