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Anyone know anything about these old things?

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by Ex, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. Ex

    Ex Member

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    I have a "turn of the century" Mauser coming, with ammo. Don't have rifle numbers yet but the ammo is very unusual.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Lebel

    Lebel_8mm_round.jpg

    I'll repost on this when I have rifle photos, But an info on the rifles that fired these rounds or
    the rounds themselves, much appreciated!!!
     
  2. PRD1

    PRD1 Member

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    If the rifle is chambered for 8mm Lebel...

    it is no sort of Mauser, but more likely a French Lebel, or a Berthier.
    PRD1 - mhb - Mike
     
  3. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

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    There are some 8mm Mauser rifles but those fire a round different from 8mm Lebel. As PRD1 said, I've never heard of an 8mm Lebel chambered Mauser. I'd say odds are you either have a non-Mauser rifle coming in 8mm Lebel or you have a Mauser rifle coming in 8mm Mauser.
     
  4. Ex

    Ex Member

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    Thanks hugely guys! I will have it on Sat and see if I can post some pics and better info on it!

    Till then (tips his hat)!
     
  5. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    There is a problem using pointed-bullet (spitzer) ammo, such as that illustrated, in a Lebel rifle with a tubular magazine. It's possible that the pointed bullet might set off the round ahead of it in the magazine. French military ammunition in 8 mm Lebel with spitzer bullets had special safety features to take care of this, including an annular groove around the primer (to catch the bullet point), and a double primer cover. Modern commercial 8 mm Lebel ammo doesn't have these safety features. This problem doesn't exist for the Berthier rifle with its box magazine.
     
  6. 303tom

    303tom member

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    Naw, that is the reason for the indention ring around the primer.............
     
  7. Ex

    Ex Member

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    Have now recieved this carbine.

    It is indeed chambered for 8mm Lebel.

    It is in fact an 1890 St Etienne Mannlicher.
    Has original leather sling with some french
    guys name and a couple of numbers on it.
    Sling is in great shape.

    All external surfaces are in very nice condition
    with no spotting of rust anywhere. Most of the
    surfaces I am guessing are a form of blued. Action
    is perpfect with the bolt working smoothly. It is an
    odd bolt assembly in that it appears to have a lot of
    wobble in it mechanism by nature. It all locks up tight
    when you close the bolt though.

    Bore is very nice... except for the end 6 inches. First couple
    patches though with breakfree clp cam out spotless. A
    visual showed it to be dull so I ran a brass bush down the
    bore. After repeated scubbings and patching, it's now
    clean and I can see a bit of rust pitting in the last 4 inches
    of the bore. Stock in really in pretty good shape for it's age.

    IMAG0037.jpg
     
  8. Ex

    Ex Member

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    This Mannlicher has an attached 3 round magazine that is loaded form the top with the bolt open.
     
  9. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    It is a Model 1890 Mannlicher-Berthier cavalry carbine. The Mannlidher refers to the en-bloc clip type magazine, which uses a 3-round clip. Emile Berthier redesigned the Lebel action to improve it and incorporate a vertical magazine instead of the tubular magazine of the Lebel. It is not clear why the Lebel cartridge was not redesigned at the same time, but economics as well as French Army conservatism probably played a part.

    In 1916, a modified Berthier was introduced with a magazine extension to use a five-round clip. While superseded in theory by the Model 1936, Berthier rifles and carbines served up to and even through WWII.

    There is considerable information here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthier_rifle

    Jim
     
  10. 303tom

    303tom member

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    Thats nice, can we see the entire rifle ?................
     
  11. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

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    Those are some sweet handling rifles for sure. The enbloc clips can be a pain to find unfortunately.
     
  12. 303tom

    303tom member

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  13. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

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    If only they had the 3 round enblocs! I have heard that the 5 round clips sometimes work if you only load 3 and allow the rest to stick out of the bottom of the rifle.
     
  14. Ex

    Ex Member

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    Only full length photo is other side. Overall, wood is in great shape.
    I have the bore soaking again, for a week or two then brass brush it again and see how much it cleans up. Appears to be very low mileage.

    IMAG0033.jpg
     
  15. Ex

    Ex Member

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    Soaked/brushed bore 4 more times today. It's getting better. Most of it is bright... just that last 4 inches I'm concerned about.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  16. Ex

    Ex Member

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    The permanent magazine does not have anywhere for clip to stick out. The one appears too load one at a time from the top... up to three
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  17. backbencher

    backbencher Member

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    That looks like a handy gadget. Any more from where that came from?
     
  18. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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  19. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    The magazine has a hole in the bottom for the clip to drop out when it is empty. There is a trapdoor over the hole to keep dirt out when the rifle is not being fired. See the little finger cuts? Just put your thumb and finger in there and pull down to open the trapdoor.

    Jim
     
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