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Anyone know the story about the woman with .25ACP vs. robber with impact weapon

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Brass Fetcher

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Wondering if anyone knows of or can repost the story of the women who used a .25ACP to confront an intruder in her home, stitched him about 4 times (2 were good shots) and was severely injured in the HOUR that it took for the SOB to collapse?

I looked at the website that I remember it being on, but the site is no longer up. I think the shooting took place in S. Florida. I've heard it before somewhere else, so it must be popular.

Thank you,

JE223
 
I know of the exact story your looking for - Massad Ayoob wrote it, but I forget which publication. I swear I read it from searches on the Looksmart.com search engine which includes free articles for American Rifleman, Guns & Ammo and others. I swear it was one of his "Incident" files. Tried searching for it but just couldn't pull it out of the mix. Try yourself though:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/advanced?tb=art
 
Could you post a link, please?

JE223 or Nortronics:

Could you post a link to the story. I looked through Ayoob's reports and did not see one relating to the incident recalled.

Thanks, tg
 
Yeah, too bad she did not use the perfect caliber...

Oh wait that doesn't exist...

you guys crack me up. Especially listening to Ayoob. Last I heard, he ain't never shot nobody.

correct me if I'm wrong. What would have happened to that gal if she had no gun at all?

I tell you what, when it comes to confronting assailants I would rather have a pellet pistol than be totally unarmed. Hell I would rather have a rubber band gun than nothing. At least I would have something to shove down his throat or stick in his eye.

My weapon of choice is the old fashioned plutonium 238 space modulator inveted by warner brothers. If you have ever seen that in action you know it is the ultimate weapon.
 
My weapon of choice is the old fashioned plutonium 238 space modulator inveted by warner brothers. If you have ever seen that in action you know it is the ultimate weapon.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. :D

Marvin the Martian said:
The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds.
 
Thank you nortonics, I surfed a bit through the "backwoods home" web site and I think I will read there some more. I read a different article by Ayoob, and it made me want to stand up and salute. Not salute Ayoob, or Ashcroft, or the president, or the supreme court. It made me want to salute this great country of ours. The one that has laws that allow me to be equal to the strongest man in the valley..... as in..... "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, because my government trusts me with the tools to protect myself"..

If anyone is disturbed by the distorted pasage from the bible, I apoligise, no disrespect to religion intended.

I liked Massad Ayoobs monologue on the second Amendment, see it here, http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob77.html

My sincere apologies for the hijack
 
Reminders

1. Story: Mindset, willingness to survive, and a firearm is a tool. Mr. Ayoob brings these to the surface to remind us all , and also to get folks to pay attention to legislations and act responsibly at the voting booth. Gun control is Gun Control

2. Mr. Ayoob is a member of THR.
Rules of Conduct state one may attack the argument - NEVER the member posting, or another member.
 
Yeah, too bad she did not use the perfect caliber... doesn't exist...
you guys crack me up. Especially listening to Ayoob. Last I heard, he ain't never shot nobody.correct me if I'm wrong. What would have happened to that gal if she had no gun at all? I tell you what, when it comes to confronting assailants I would rather have a pellet pistol than be totally unarmed. Hell I would rather have a rubber band gun than nothing. At least I would have something to shove down his throat or stick in his eye.

I'm not sure if you're comment about Mr Ayoob never having shot anyone was intended to disparage his authenticity to prove your point, or whether it was as an aside or a non-sequitor.

If it was the former, it was badly off mark, as the article by Mr. Ayoob supported your premise completely.

Ideally, the "perfect observer" from the scientific perspective will have never shot anyone, as that emotional experience would color their observations.
 
Pardon me,,,

Beaver Fever?? Do you have any confirmation that Massad Ayoob is not what he claims to be? If so, please supply us with a link, or confirmation.... if not you should take two aspirin, two glasses of water, and two beavers, and call me in the morning.
 
Darn JE223 - I'm usually pretty proficient in finding stuff on the numerous search resources out here on the Internet, especially if I've read the info before in the past. But man, this one is leaving me empty-handed. I even went back to all my Ayoob books here at home thinking maybe I read it from one of them - no luck either.

I've read that exact story at least a couple times here on the Internet. I recall it pretty clearly because it was such a harrowing event for the woman in question.

I recall the story was set in the woman's home - during daylight hours - she was the only one home. She was doing house chores - dusting cleaning, that sort of stuff. When in the bedroom she opened up the night stand drawer to continue cleaning and putting stuff away, when she notices the handgun in the drawer that she either purchased or received as a gift, for purposes of home protection. She thought it amusing that it was there as she's never once even remotely thinking of needing it in the past. For some reason she leaves it sitting on top of her night stand - in plain view to anyone in the room. I recall it was a very small caliber handgun - either a regular .22 LR, or similar, like the .25 ACP you mention. Shortly thereafter she found herself tired, and decided to lay down to take a nap, in that bedroom. She ends up waking to an intruder, whom as I recall was hoping to get away with raping this woman. As she's trying to fight off his incredibly violent blows, she recalls the gun sitting on the night stand - the would be rapist never even saw it sitting there. She ends up getting hold of it and in the hour long struggle gets off numerous shots, but she never really knows at the moment if any of them have hit their mark as this guy just keeps beating at her. A lot of things happened in that hour that I can't recall exactly from the article, but what it all boiled down to was she survived the encounter, while the intruder was dead. Once she got hold of a phone to call in the emergency and the police arrived the found that she had in fact shot the guy numerous times, one shot going right into the guys mouth and exiting out the side of his face/head. At least one other shot into the abdomen, and I can't recall if the other were hits too, or misses. Through this whole incident she never let go of that gun either. Basically the article said the guy bled to death over that one hour of time, taking multiple small caliber shots. I also recall that the police that arrived were just astonished that this woman lived, as she was truly beat to a bloody pulp - I recall that the officers were just numbed that this intruder was so inhumane to beat another human so severely that it maddened them - one of the many things that horrified the police was how bad her face was beat - apparently so bad that one on the woman's eye balls was popped out of it's socket as well. I believe the doctors saved her sight, but she had to go through years of physical rehab regardless.

That's the best I can recall from the story. One day I'm sure I'll roll across it again, and I'll try to remember this thread and post a link...
 
you guys crack me up. Especially listening to Ayoob. Last I heard, he ain't never shot nobody.

correct me if I'm wrong. What would have happened to that gal if she had no gun at all?
The point is, I think, if you're going to have a handgun around the house, it might make sense to have one that's a little more potent than a .25 acp.

I'd prefer a pointed stick over NOTHING, but that doesn't mean I'm going to rush out and buy a pointed stick as my home defense weapon.
 
About 15 years ago (or perhaps 20) was a local woman who shot a rapist once dead center heart with her Jetfire .25 ..he died in place (must have clipped the arota). That's pobably real rare, but I certainly sold all the Jetfire 25's I could get in for a few months (was working a local gun shop that summer).

(yeah..probably could have sole a trunk-full of Ravens too, but at least we stocked only the Beretta in .25)
 
Nortonics,

That's the one. Thank you for helping me out... I've wanted to re-read the story a few times now since I first read it. 'Dramatic' to me is an understatement for this story. Do you recall the part where, at the end, she could not let go of the gun - her grip on the gun was too tight?

This story is what led me to really focus on 'mousegun' calibers, with my gelatin testing. The biggest shame here, to me, is that this brave person experienced an equipment failure (as opposed to the much more common human error IMO) - one that could have been prevented with some care taken prior to the incident. IIRC, one shot hit the head of the attacker, like you said, and did him right. Another one hit him solid, like a shot to the lung or kidney, etc. Two missed, I think that only four rounds were in the -partially loaded gun-.

Assuming identical bullet trajectories of the shots that hit the attacker, identical bullet styles in other calibers would have made these sized holes :

A .22lr would have made a hole of 0.039 square inches (actual hole size is less, but this gives an idea).

The .25ACP made a hole of 0.049 squares inches.

A .32ACP would have made a hole of 0.077 square inches - over half again the amount of badguy would have been destroyed with each hit. Natually, expanding rounds would have helped too. A tragedy.

JE223
 
my apologies to Mr. Ayoob if he has actually taken offense

I doubt he has... He would have surely stopped writting years ago if he was shy of critics. My comments were more to his devotees rather that directly at him.

What I said was funny and meant to be but as always somebody has their panties in a bunch. That is the problem with the gun crowd... so many with so little sense of humor.

Now for those of you jumping to defend the honor of those that probably did not ask you too... take two asprin yourself and unbind those panties a bit.

We are all entitled to our opinions.

My points are...

I'm tired of the perfect caliber arguements. Small guns can be used in defense too. Small is better than nothing. Ask my wife...

I'm tired of the "experts" that have lots of training and no experience. If I'm learning to fight, I prefer my teacher to actually have been in a fight before. Otherwise they are not really a teacher they are just another joe offering an opinion. There is a real difference here. hell I have read a lot, trained some and have opinions on everything too but does that mean you should listen to me... I think not... especially if your life depends on it.

And third and most important... the plutonium 238 space modulator is the ultimate self defense weapon.

-bevr
 
So far, I've been able to post something like 200 times regarding bullets, without starting a 'caliber war', I hope this one doesn't go that way.

One very salient point that I get from the story is the nature of the person defending themselves and the gun that they used. When reading 'it happened to me' stories, it is very revealing that most of the folks involved didn't know much of guns/training/ammunition, etc. In short, they were not 'gun nuts', just "had the gun for protection" people.

For someone with no experience shooting a gun, using the second-least effective caliber in a short barrel pistol she did pretty well. Most people, I think, do not trust themselves enough to take their lives in their own hands. Which is what you do when you enter into combat of any sort. My hat is off to this person. <Removes hat>, <replaces hat>. :)

JE223
 
I'm tired of the "experts" that have lots of training and no experience. If I'm learning to fight, I prefer my teacher to actually have been in a fight before. Otherwise they are not really a teacher they are just another joe offering an opinion.

I would rather learn from someone who has studied many gunfights and has seen the aftermath of many shootings before, over someone who once shot a guy and thinks he now knows it all. I have been in a few gunfights myself and in NO WAY do I consider myself any kind of an expert. I personally will listen to what mr. Ayoob has to say, as he has much more time and experience studying these things than I do.
 
I'm tired of the perfect caliber arguements. Small guns can be used in defense too. Small is better than nothing. Ask my wife...

Nothing is a sad and minimal standard by which to compare choices for self defense. Hell, a pair of dueces or even a couple of jacks beats nothing and so comparison against nothing is pretty darned useless.

Small calibers can be used, but there are most definitely better options out there. The closer to nothing a small caliber is, the greater the skill or luck required in needing to use it effectively.

Also an Ayoob story, as I recall, is the old lady who fended off the drunken biker breaking down her front door. She managed a one shot stop with a tiny Colt Vest Pocket .25 acp against the bruiser and the amazing thing is that her single shot landed in and was retrieved from the door trim. She missed her intruder completely, but he fled none the less. Sure, the result was attained, but not because of physical damage to the intruder, simply psychological choice.
 
Stories like this have been going on since the 20's at least.

Colt's 1908 vest pocket pistol was the subject of one such lament.
 
"The closer to nothing a small caliber is, the greater the skill or luck required in needing to use it effectively."

I call BS!

I dispute this concept totally, after recently shooting a 44 mag snubnose with a hair trigger. I say she would have been far better off with the .25.

As for the "nothing" arguement, the woman had a .25 or nothing. She did not have here choice between it and a 6 inch .357.
 
I dispute this concept totally, after recently shooting a 44 mag snubnose with a hair trigger. I say she would have been far better off with the .25.
Folks who study logic and debate speak of a technique called reductio ad absurdum. That's a type of logical argument where one assumes a claim for the sake of argument, arrives at an absurd result, and then asks to listening to or reading the argument to conclude that the original assumption must have been wrong, since it led to a clearly absurd result.

Just because you obviously weren't ready for a .44 magnum with a hair trigger says nothing about her readiness to use a .380, .38 special, or 9mm handgun.

I call BS, too.
 
ah walt...

What says I was not ready for the magnum?

Must have been those voices again...

My intention was to point out the absurdity that the smaller a round gets, the more skill it requires. That was exactly what double naught was saying, although I did paraphrase.

If you honestly think it takes more skill to safely shoot a small calber handgun than a larger caliber gun regardless of sex and age that is your opinion.

I don't agree. I think the larger more potent and further the range and penetration of the ammo the more skill is required. But hey that is just me. What do I know. You are the expert here. Especially at logic... and latin...

Most of the rest of us tend to prefer those less skilled and knowledgable shooters use smaller caliber guns becuase they do indeed IMHO require less dexterity, strength and knowledge to use.

You just like to argue with me don't you...
 
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