Anyone NOT a member of Gun Owners of America, if so, why?

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Its been a while so I'll probably get the details wrong but a while back I saw a GOA newsletter by pratt filled with fundamentalist hooey, I think maybe it had some anti-gay stuff in, some creationism.... At first I thought it was a fabrication by someone out to soil their name but then I did more research on pratt and found it to be quite likely exactly as it appeared. So anyway, Larry Pratt and because it appears that GOA has their noses in more matters than just gun rights.

I have gotten the newsletter for some years now and don't recall that. I think you should research it and cite the issue in which it appeared and provide some actual quotes from it. Something that defaming should have some hard references.
 
JohnBT,

The entire subject is about the GOA so I think anything in regards to Larry Pratt would be valid for this discussion.

I can't say that I agree with the guy 100% or the choices he has made or the people he has made contact with, but at the very least the GOA hasn't been as quick to compromise with gun grabbers as the NRA has.

Sometimes I think that the NRA forgets that the Second Amendment is a Right. You can't compromise on Rights, otherwise you are just making it a priviledge. I don't like it when a gun lobby indirectly treats the issue as a priviledge. Claiming victory by compromising isn't a victory to me at all.

Crazed SS, I still have no idea what the issue is you are trying to bring up:

"If even single percent of that population is motivated to kill a few [insert group here] for [insert made up cause here], the country would be facing 400,000 murderers on the loose"

Note the phrase "if even." That doesn't mean "there are." It's just an example. Nothing to get bent out of shape about.

"We dont have an epedemic of Muslims comitting crimes in America."

No, but we have an epidemic of Muslims overseas bashing America and plenty of them engaging in terrorist activities. Just go to any Muslim country besides the UAE as an American and see how safe you feel.

Doesn't mean you should treat Muslims in America as criminals or terrorists before they have done anything, though. But I'm observant to the fact that there are Muslim terrorists out there wanting to kill us, and since I have no idea which one wants to do that, I pretty much have to watch all of them for suspicious activity.

"Im willing to go out on a limb and bet the Muslim community commits crime at a much lower rate than society in general."

We haven't been talking about crime in general but terrorism.

"It's America. People can dress how like want. It's called Freedom of Expression."

What does this have to do with what we've been discussing? I don't think anyone on here has suggested that we throw people in jail for the way they dress. But if someone committing acts of terrorism dress a particular way, I will pay closer attention to everyone who dresses that way. Doesn't mean I'm going to mistreat them or think they are guilty until proven innocent.

I fail to see how profiling puts people in jail for the way they dress or act. All profiling does is draw attention to those whose behavior is from the same spectrum as past terrorists or criminals. When I was a teenager the police department paid more attention to me, which upset me at the time, but looking back they paid attention to ALL of the teenagers since they were more likely to commit a silly offense than the adults were. I can't imagine getting myself in trouble now since a lot of the stuff we did back then that would have gotten us into trouble we outgrew.

"He's also making numbers up. You understand that right? Where does he get 1%?"

IT WAS AN EXAMPLE.

"Do I get to claim that 1% of fundamentalist Christians are abortion clinic bombers and need to be surveilled? Do I get to claim that 1% of Glock owners are prone to mass murder and we should keep tabs on them?"

Did you even bother to read the article that Pratt wrote? He never claims that one percent of Muslims are terrorists.

"Um, yes, I would. He's rather extraordinarily right-wing in many ways."

Being right-wing in many ways doesn't make someone right-wing. I have several right-wing leanings but never do I consider myself to be right-wing.

Off of the top of my head, without analyzing too much, Rush Limbaugh and Ronald Reagan would be very right-wing to me. Ron Paul is more of a libertarian with right-wing leanings. Pat Buchanan would be right-wing with libertarian leanings.

BTW, "bigot" is one of those words that liberals love to throw around and use to label people they don't like. It's such a subjective word that it doesn't really even have much meaning anymore. I'd avoid the use of it.

I don't think the GOA is the perfect gun lobby, but asides the fact that they don't publish financial information and they don't have much clout, I haven't seen a lot of strong arguments on here yet that would sway my opinion of them.

I've supported a lot of people in the past that I did not agree 100% with and Pratt is no exception. He's done some things in the past which do not make him look good at all, but he hasn't compromised as much as the NRA and that's all I really care about for a gun lobby. I'll ignore the stuff Pratt says about his other beliefs as long as he does a good job with the gun issues.

I don't expect NRA supporters to agree 100% with the head honchos at the NRA or what they do.
 
I have gotten the newsletter for some years now and don't recall that. I think you should research it and cite the issue in which it appeared and provide some actual quotes from it. Something that defaming should have some hard references.
Fair enough, I didn't want to really dig for the information since I wasn't trying to sway people but simply saying why I had the views I had, but I went through my email to find the 2 unanswered letters I sent to GOA asking for clarification. Here is what it was in reference to:

http://www.gunowners.org/op0634.htm
It Didn't Happen Overnight

by Sen. H. L. Richardson (Ret.)

Because of my many years as a conservative in elected office, I have been asked by others, "how did we get in this mess we are in?" The great author Robert Louis Stevenson wisely said, "Sooner or later in life, we all sit down to a banquet of consequences."

That's what's happening now, we're at the banquet.

Here is a brief synopsis of how it happened.

Many Americans believe that the core religious values, which founded and sustained this nation, have not only been sadly neglected but also forgotten. In so doing, the public is finding out what political ignorance and religious apathy has created. While godly people snoozed and gun owners were busy hunting, small minorities of hedonists have inveigled their way into government and have been able to impose their political will upon the majority.

It didn't happen over night.

To understand, we have to go back one hundred years to the comments of a very wise man, President Theodore Roosevelt. He stated, "There are those who believe that a new modernity demands a new morality. What they fail to consider is the harsh reality that there is no such thing as a new morality. There is only one morality. There is only true Christian ethics over against which stands the whole of paganism. If we are to fulfill our great destiny as a people, then we must return to the old morality, the sole morality."

Roosevelt saw moral slippage occurring at the beginning of the last century. He saw radical activists proclaiming a "new morality" embodying atheism and materialism. They were becoming increasingly vocal on our college campuses and were becoming more active in American politics, promoting their "new" morality. They were also attempting to elect their candidates on the socialist ticket.

In the beginning, the Socialists and their allies were singularly unsuccessful and remained small in number. The vast majority of Americans were happy with our liberty, constitutional government, free enterprise and politics implemented through the two party system.

At the beginning of the last century, a socialist by the name of Lenin, put wheels under the world socialist movement. He lead a small minority of communists in overthrowing the czarist government in Russia; in so doing, Lenin developed a financial base and a national platform for the promotion of world socialism. After the First World War, the hard core left became more politically active in the United States. Lenin was an excellent organizer, and he and other socialist leaders realized that it was an impossible task to sell their bad tasting political medicine to the vast majority of Americans.

Norman Thomas, an early leader in the American socialist movement promoted the concept that Americans would never knowingly adopt socialism but, under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

The left abandoned their attempts to sell their socialist programs as a third party and decided that there was more fertile political ground within the two party system running as "liberals" and "progressives."

At the beginning of the Twentieth Century, the Democrats had a weak political party, eager for any new members. The left seized the opportunity and registered as Democrats. They were aware that both parties are open to any one who registers in either party.

The socialists recognized that to be a candidate, all you have to do is register, be of age, alive, not a felon and have the money to legally file for office. There is no political litmus test in either party in order to be a member or a candidate.

Socialists could easily register as Democrats and campaign on any issue to get elected rather than campaigning on socialist programs -- say anything to win the office, then legislate as they please once in office.

The left-wing political leader ship recognized that by themselves, they were only a tiny percentage of the American population. They did, however, recognize that only one out of four Americans vote in primary elections and therefore, a small percentage could nominate a candidate in primary elections since multiple candidates often seek the office. The left saw that in local elections for school boards and city council and supervisors, even smaller numbers could affect the outcome. If their Socialists candidates won local offices, they could establish a base of operations in order to move up step by step to higher office, such as state representatives, state senators and at a later opportunity, to Congress and the US Senate.

The following is an actual example of how a small minority can win a major California State Senate office. Registration heavily favored the Republican Party.


District population approximately 600,000
Those who could register to vote 400,000
Those who bothered to register 235,000
Total who voted in primary election 120,000
Republican primary vote 70,000
Democrat primary vote 50,000

Eight candidates sought the Republican nomination
The Republican winning candidate gained 16,000

And won handily. In the general election, he easily gained the senate seat and served for 22 years. Is this race an exception? No! It happens all the time. Realize the significance of only 16,000 votes out of potentially 400,000 who could have participated. Think about it. Is it any wonder that a small, dedicated minority of voters could have a disproportionate impact on our government when three out of four Americans don't even register or bother to take part in primary elections, in the important process of selecting who their candidates might be? It has been said that when one American was informed that much of the country's population suffered from both political ignorance and apathy. His yawning response was "I don't know and I don't care."

The socialists, in democratic garb, had a long-range plan with little to stand in their way. Since they were atheists and agnostics, they believed that any method that achieved socialist power was "ethical." The expression, "the end justifies the means" became their motto and method of operations. Deception and lying became the tools of their trade.

During the latter 1800's and early1900's, the socialist base was still too small to elect their numbers to many offices; they needed to attract additional support. Now clothed as liberals in democratic garb, they increased their numbers by wooing small disgruntled and politically isolated segments of the population, with future promises of political advantage. Knowing that by adding small segment by segment, their combined small numbers could add up enough votes to win primary elections.

They first successfully impacted and wooed segments of the union movement. Then over the years, adding little segments one at a time, they captured support from the homosexual community by sympathizing with their "gay" activities. They attracted anti-war pacifists, disgruntled feminists, the extreme environmentalists, gun control supporters and any other dissident group that could be wooed with future promises of legislative support. Adopting "class action" agitation, they pandered to any group they could exploit and bring on board.

During the growth of their move towards power, the left wing leadership wisely kept these segments separated, appealing to them directly, and then, only to each one's special interest. They knew there would be difficulties if they ever brought them all together, for they certainly didn't want to have meetings of rank and file union members with the "gay" community nor the elderly with anti-war activists.

The socialist knew that, with accurate polling information, they could campaign on issues that they didn't really believe -- but appealed to the average voter; they didn't have to broadcast who their real supporters happened to be.

The great depression of the 1930's brought the Democrats into national power at all levels of government, including a segment of the "liberal" Democrats. The majority of the Democratic legislators elected during the 1930's and 1940's were still traditional Americans in their ethics and values. However, few old-line Democrats saw trouble brewing and the shift in leadership taking place within their own party. The old time Democrat found out soon enough when he found himself gerrymandered out of his seat and replaced by a young leftist.

At the present time, the good ole hard working jackass, the symbol of the Democrats, should have been changed to the condor; a bird far more in keeping with the leftward slant of their party.

A condor is a large ugly vulture, which feeds on carrion. It stays afloat on hot air and deserts its young when frightened. Its defense mechanism is to throw up, barf a stream of semi-digested meat on its enemies. The bird can't survive near civilization and is becoming extinct in proximity to civilized society. To keep it alive in California, the government now subsidizes its food. It survives quite well in backward South American countries. Could anyone think of a more appropriate symbol for a left-wing socialist movement?

Over many years, the planned "liberal leftist" control over the inner workings of the Democrat party structure increased dramatically. Working together as an organized minority during the nineteen fifties and sixties, the leftists set forth to take control of the Democrat party leadership. Achieving substantial success, they then moved to influence the Republican Party as well, running their candidates as liberals or "moderate" Republicans. RINOs (Republican In Name Only) became a small dissident element in the Republican Party as well. Small but mouthy, they are the croaking frogs on republican lily pads.

While in office, during the 1970's and 1980's, I saw the left grasp control over the political fortunes of the Democrat party, On a first hand basis, right before my own eyes, I watched it happen. Today, the socialists are the dominant voice in its elected leadership. Whenever the opportunity presented itself, they effectively and systematically eliminated conservative Democrat office holders within their ranks. Because the Left now controls leadership, they control candidate funding, thereby controlling who wish to be elected and leveraging Democrat incumbents who wish to be returned to office.

A very conspicuous case of rooting out non-conforming members of the Democrat party is the primary election defeat of Sen. Joe Lieberman in Connecticut. In six years this long-time Senator went from national icon of the Democrat party to pariah. The message is the same – tow the line, or else.

Over the past fifty years, controlling the vast wealth created through taxation, they have built a huge federal, state and local bureaucracy which not only employs their own kind but implements a wealth of programs that reflects the wishes of their base, the unions, the gays, the feminists the anti war pacifists, the gun controllers, etc. Through laws, they have dramatically increased their power and have done what Norman Thomas hoped would happen.

The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

Fortunately, a number of Americans are aware of how it's happening and are trying to inform their fellow Americans. Millions of Americans still hold to the core traditional and religious values that founded this nation and, properly informed, are working diligently to see the left in both parties are routed out of our Constitutional government.

The first glimmer of hope came with the republican nomination of Barry Goldwater for president in the 1960's. Although he was soundly defeated in the general election, he defeated in the primary, the darling of the left leaning republicans, Nelson Rockefeller. Conservatives rallied to work for Goldwater and didn't quit working after his defeat. In California, in 1966, they defeated another "moderate" in the primary by nominating and electing as governor, something as rare as a right-winger in Hillary Clinton's staff -- a conservative actor.

The fledgling American core value revolt was under way. A voice was raised promoting our traditions and our ethics: activist organizations began to crop all over America -- politically unsophisticated but eager to learn. Fourteen years later, they nominated and elected Ronald Reagan to the presidency.

In 1994, the Lower House of Congress went republican and its leadership shifted toward conservatism. Was liberalism dead? Not by a long sight. They had managed to control both houses of Congress for forty years. The Republicans held narrow margins but with a few "moderate" RINOs in their midst, their control is iffy. The lefties were deeply imbedded in the Northeastern states and were the controlling factor in most large cities.

However, they were increasingly having problems within their own ranks.

The splinter groups they'd attracted and wooed began to make demands. They had contributed to the Democrat victories, now they wanted their reward. They wanted more of their own elected to office and they wanted their issues enacted into law. Instead of being splinter groups kept in the closet, they demanded to be heard, and their wishes subsequently become part of our laws.

They got their wish and, and the dissidents are now running the "Democratic" party. The tail is now wagging the old "Democrat" donkey. The anti-war, pro-abort, environmental extremists, soft on crime, big spending liberals, feminists and deviants of both sexes are calling the political tune and are marching hand in hand in gay parades. The large body of old rank and file Democrats are scratching their heads and wondering, "What's going on?"

Big changes are now occurring. The South, traditionally Democrat but fundamentally religious, has turned Republican. Not because of any great love for the Republican structure, but because of their disgust over the present leftward drift of their own party.

Amongst elected Democrats, hoping to seek higher office and recognizing that the new base of the party has become a collection of wacko wonks, are trying to cover and obfuscate this fact by constantly attacking their opposition as "extreme," haters of the poor or religious bigots. Their rhetoric borders the wild -- trying to please their base while seeking to appear as moderate to the average voter. It ain't working.

They are in trouble and they know it. The governmental bureaucracy, which houses and provides jobs for their supporters, is being threatened. Their economic base is vulnerable and their future is suspect. How can they send Junior and Zelda to Harvard if they are outa' work? Therefore, their attacks are becoming more vicious and the thin veneer of civility is wearing off their "democratic" facade.

There is a truism in economic circles, "bad money drives out good." The same thing is true in politics. Bad people drive out good ones. In the "Democratic" party that rule is holding true. Bad Democrats drive out good ones. In rural America, the trend is decidedly towards basic American values. Who would have believed forty years ago, that below the Mason Dixon Line, the South would turn Republican? Or that rock-ribbed republican New Englanders would tolerate Barney Frank or Ted Kennedy in office?

The left hasn't gained total control, for if they had, they'd have made it a "crime" for me to write what I have just written. There is still time to turn it all around and get the buggers out of government. I know it's possible and so does the left, which is why, when challenged, and a conservative leaning judge is appointed to the Supreme Court, the thin veneer of civility rubs off for all to see. We are now witnessing how uncivil and uncouth they really are.

They started as a minority and still are a minority. The big difference is that over the last hundred years, they have embedded themselves and their unworkable policies in all facets of government -- including education and segments of the major media.

They can be routed out but they won't go willingly. They have worked hard to get where they are and are going to see that all their socialist programs are going to be shoved down our collective throats. They are nasty people. Rub off that thin veneer of civility and see for yourselves.

Theodore Roosevelt also said, "All those blatant sham reformers, in the name of new morality, preach the old, old vice and self indulgence which rotted out first, the moral fiber and then even the external greatness of Greece and Rome."

Is America next? Are we to be "rotted out by sham reformers?" Are we to be apathetic Americans who say, "I don't know and I don't care!"?

I don't think so. I believe we are at the banquet and Americans are feasting on the political consequences of the last one hundred years. They don't like the taste of the political concoctions they've been fed and are demanding and working for change.
************************
(Sen. Richardson is Founder and Chairman of Gun Owners of America.)
This led me to poke around a bit more about GOA, and thats probably what led me to read 100 things about pratt.... Anyway the sum of it is they very much appear to be at the least to be concerned about more than firearms rights and are pushing other values I don't agree with. I'm an atheist gun owner who doesn't have any problem with with "the gays", and to me this op-ed piece says the GOA is no friend of mine and has an agenda well past 2nd amendment rights.
 
All this bickering for what? I like this, you like that. Big deal. Folks, we need all the help we can get in our fight. Join them all. You would think a forum with this many members, all with the same cause, could at least join together with one voice.
 
Fair enough, I didn't want to really dig for the information since I wasn't trying to sway people but simply saying why I had the views I had, but I went through my email to find the 2 unanswered letters I sent to GOA asking for clarification. Here is what it was in reference to:

Thanks for the work, but that quote seems a rather weak guilt by association. I think it helps to remember that the only thing gun owners truly have in common is guns. There might be some other strong tendencies flowing from an interest in guns and variable knowledge of gun control laws, but one shouldn't count on it as "the mark".

I do think it unfortunate that those in high places choose to express views on potentially controversial subjects that are irrelevant to there official, very public function. They are, however, real people and have a right to fully express themselves. We just might think them self indulgent and not give them high marks for political sensitivity.

I have inferred that being an atheist is more important to you than being a gun owner. You might think about the concept of "strange bedfellows". I am also reminded of the saying that "good things are accomplished by bad people".
 
I do think it unfortunate that those in high places choose to express views on potentially controversial subjects that are irrelevant to there official, very public function. They are, however, real people and have a right to fully express themselves. We just might think them self indulgent and not give them high marks for political sensitivity.

I have inferred that being an atheist is more important to you than being a gun owner. You might think about the concept of "strange bedfellows". I am also reminded of the saying that "good things are accomplished by bad people".
I don't think its guilt by association, its proudly displayed on the GOA website. To me that is clearly saying its a GOA document and representative of their views, not just his. I don't think my problem is as much their privately held views as it is that they use the GOA as a vehicle to try to express and forward them. I don't want any of my money being spent to further such views.

There are enough gun rights organizations I can give money to that don't believe I'm the evil that's wrong with america that I feel like I'm safe in not giving them any money.
 
I found that article on the GOA website under Op-Ed Pieces/Opinions and Articles/Various Authors. In that context, it was hardly a mantra for GOA. I guess you would have to be mad at them for hosting the article, but it did not strike me as an official position for which the whole organization should be accountable. At a minimum, I would have to wonder who was going to tell the founder that he couldn't post his article on the website.

You would have to overlook all the good things GOA does to let that one article drive you away. Did you ask them to withdraw it, explaining how irrelevant you thought it was, never mind personally offensive to you?
 
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I found that article on the GOA website under Op-Ed Pieces/Opinions and Articles/Various Authors. In that context, it was hardly a mantra for GOA. I guess you would have to be mad at them for hosting the article, but it did not strike me as an official position for which the whole organization should be accountable. At a minimum, I would have to wonder who was going to tell the founder that he couldn't post his article of the website.

You would have to overlook all the good things GOA does to let that one article drive you away. Did you ask them to withdraw it, explaining how irrelevant you thought it was, never mind personally offensive to you?
If he author in question can't police himself enough t not use the GOA as the mouthpiece for his other political views, can I trust him to not spend my money for them too?

I never even asked GOA to withdraw it, I emailed twice asking "the origin of this piece and what if any action or position the GOA takes on positions outside of gun ownership" just for clarification on how I should take it. I believe that was a fair chance for them to clarify if it was meant to represent GOA or not. I never received a response to either of my letters.
 
Not a menber because except for forums I never hear about them. I don't read many magazines just enought to kinda kep up on new guns. I am a life member of the NRA and just don't hear about the others. Maybe they are not vocal enough. What have they done that I should join? I have no idea.
 
If more people joined GOA then they would have more clout although in many ways they are less likely to compromise our rights than the NRA there are still some concerns as we can see by the some of the prior posts.The organization that really believes most strongly in the 2nd amendment and the RKBA is JPFO.
 
Damned fine recruiting job by 7.62 Shooter.

I renewed my NRA membership, thanks to his "gentle prodding". ;)
 
Your "comfort?" What a manly way to put that
I'm guessing that it's people like you that keep others away from an organization. You've managed to start near fights on 2 different boards with your aggressive and attacking approach.

Personally, GOA will never see a dime of mine as a direct result of your approach...not that I believe you or any other person really cares about my money/support.

Now everyone just be quiet, come with me and have some free kool-aid.

:rolleyes:
 
My money goes to the NRA. Only so much to go around, and yes, $20 makes a difference.
 
""Pratt also spoke at an anti-government meeting in 1992 while looking into the Ruby Ridge, Idaho, incident in which federal agents killed the wife and son of white separatist Randy Weaver. A federal marshal also was killed during the siege.

The meeting was called by Pete Peters, leader of Christian Identity, which critics say supports violence to promote white supremacy. Other featured speakers included former Ku Klux Klan leader and Aryan Nation official Louis Bream and Aryan Nations Founder Richard Butler.

Although Buchanan said Pratt did not deny speaking before the groups, he said Pratt is a member of several organizations dedicated to promoting racial harmony. But Buchanan said after discussing the matter with campaign officials, Pratt agreed to give up his post "for the good of the campaign."

At a news conference, Pratt denied he holds any racist or anti-Semitic views and called the effort to link him to hate groups a move to smear Buchanan.

"I see this as a political effort, a tool to try to discredit the Pat Buchanan campaign," said Pratt, one of four co-chairmen listed on Buchanan's letterhead.

"I loathe the Aryan Nation and other racist groups with every fiber of my being.""

- Copyright Detroit News. The AP contributed to this article."

I'm Black. I loathe White Aryan Resistance, KKK, etc. but I loathe the gov't officials and agents who would MURDER and attempt to murder a man for not cooperating with FBI agents in a sting operations because the set him to cut a shotgun barrel to 17.5 inches. (THESE are the particulars of that situation).

The Southern Poverty Law Center, eh? John Dees. Give me a break. A pervert whose organization is against any organization who is remotely aligned with YOUR/MY/THIS NATION's Founders.

You puzzle me with this one John...
 
"Why do yall imply Larry Pratt is/or chooses to hang out with extremists."

Because dangerous organizations such as SPLC and ADL use defamation to limit an impressive opposition's "reach" into the public debate leaving the public with truly less effective persons/organizations that are easier to deal with.

Which is why I call the NRA "MANAGED COMPETITION"
 
Soybomb, that article merely puts many things together such that one does not put on blinders, so to speak. The "gun issue" is one part of a much broader issue: The Constitution and Bill of Rights. Culture and Religion are inextricably tied to both documents. The culture that spawned both documents were predominantly Occidental (i.e., Western), British descent (i.e., Caucasian) Christian and Deist. Oh, I'm Black and Christian but I study Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism such that I understand the perspectives of other religious groups.

All of the other issues addressed puts this into perspective. I like that article.
 
Until this morning, I had never heard of the group. The poeple that have been the most vocal about supporting GOA have done 2 things.

1. Attacked people just for having views different from their own

2. When valid reasons that this Pratt guy may not be such a great charater are brought up..there hasnt been anything solid stated to refute the claims.

If the negative things about the groups intolerance and possble bigotry are untrue. then it should be easy for the supporters to post information that show the opposite even thought several members have posted verbage from the goa website and and words from those who have clout within the organization which support the though that they may be intolerant.

the posts in this thread are the reason I would not join this group. I feel that the only thing that all of us have in commom is an interest in guns...That is not enough of a commonality to join a group that may not be in harmony w/things that are more important in my life.
 
I too thought the article was an eyebrow raiser. I have to agree though that, by inference in a GOA context, an erosion of values and honor spawns a culture of gun control.

I think it would be naive to think that any gun organization would not be full of people with similar sentiments or who would find the article somewhat agreeable.

If one needs a gun advocacy group entirely free of any religious basis, explicit or abstract, maybe that person should start one. I wish the person luck on having any influence.

Is the purpose to find those "just like me" or to work toward some grander goal involving a single common denominator?
 
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It seems to me that some people (e.G., see "Borrowed times" post above) have already conceded the battle for pro-gun rights most of us are fighting:cool: , while the major political battles are yet to be fought. Avoiding pro-gun groups is, very simply, the wrong thing to do. Contributing, organizing with others, such as the NRA is so effective about, is the only thing to do if you are really serious about retaining your gun rights.
 
""Why do yall imply Larry Pratt is/or chooses to hang out with extremists."

Because dangerous organizations such as SPLC and ADL use defamation to limit an impressive opposition's "reach" into the public debate leaving the public with truly less effective persons/organizations that are easier to deal with."

Implied nothing, it was stated as fact. Look it up yourself if you don't believe it.

You can't blame Mr. Pratt's failings when it comes to "reach" on some organizations, or me, when it's his behavior that's done him in.

John
 
Anyone NOT a member of Gun Owners of America, if so, why?

Only to help you get a count, I'll say I am not. Why not? Because I don't want to be. That, my friend, is all the reason you need. Or is it your hope that by rationalizing away my objections you will persuade me to join?

I see you are a new member. Nothing wrong with that -- we were all new members at some point. But I also see your first and, so far, only posts have been about membership in GOA.

Why did you join THR?
 
GOA was founded in 1975 by H.L. Richardson.

Is Richardson still Pratt's boss?

Does Richardson still belong to the John Birch Society?

John
 
I don't really want to argue about the subject on here anymore since it's really not worth arguing about and all it's going to do is piss everyone off.

Bottom line is that I would support the NRA IF they would quit compromising our rights. Only reason I like the GOA is because they don't compromise as much. I cannot care less about Pratt's beliefs regarding other non-gun issues.
 
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