AO M1 feed issue

[Mr_Flintstone]

Hey guys. I have an Auto Ordnance M1 carbine that has a feed issue. When I load my magazines, the bolt won't strip the right hand (from the shouldered position) round from the magazine and feed it into the chamber. When it does, and when it feeds the left hand round, the rounds feed into the chamber in front of the extractor. I don't think the problem is the magazine. I've tried four different ones, and they all do the same thing. If I hold the magazine back toward the trigger, the rounds feed correctly, but when I release my hand from the magazine, the feed issues return.

What do you think? Could it be the magazine catch? What else could cause this issue?

 

[Llama Bob]

It's difficult to know without measuring things and comparing them to the drawings.

If this is a new gun, I would recommend having Auto Ordinance fix it. If it's used, I would recommend taking it to a reputable gunsmith.

 

[Captain O]

How old is the Carbine and how many rounds have been fired from it? If your A/O has been "broken in" you might check the magazine catch and see if replacing it with a USGI model (both inexpensive and a 10 minute replacement procedure).

If the magazine isn't feeding, go to AIM and purchase some nice 15 round magazines at $11.00 each + shipping. These may take care of the difficulty.

If your rifle (and it is a rifle) still has issues, Fulton Armory can set it straight. They do a wonderful job, and your rifle will be a better machine than it ever had been. Look them up.

I wish you well.

 

[CapnMac]

The haters will tell you the problem begins with A-O.

This does remind me of a Universal I had for about 5 weeks. It would only feed if the "high" round was on the left. It also only fed about 1 in 3 rounds--either an FTF or an FTE. It also never held open on the last round.

This pretty much ruined every range session, so, I unloaded it for about 45¢ on the dollar and called it even. (Did tell the anonymous dude at the George R Brown show that it had problems.)

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

It's brand new. I just got it yesterday. I disassembled it and thoroughly cleaned it today and reassembled. I have tried the factory 5 rd and 15 rd mags, a Promag 15, and a USGI. All fed exactly the same. I don't think it's the magazines, but it could be. It only has about 25 rounds through it, because of the feed issue.

 

[Llama Bob]

It's brand new.

Then I would send it right back where it came from for repair.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Well, after a third disassembly/reassembly, I just successfully ran 20 rounds through it with only one failure to feed on the last round of a 10 round magazine from keep shooting.com. Maybe if I just keep shooting it, it'll break in and start to work better.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I was all set to call Kahr tomorrow when I decided to look closely at the magazines. I started with the factory 5 round mag because it misfeeds the worst. I loaded it up and hand cycled. I noticed that the nose of the rounds would pop up in the chamber before the bolt could catch the round. This caused the bolt to miss the round or to feed at too great an angle.

I used a pair of vice grips to squeeze the feed lips together. This helped a great deal, but not completely, so I reloaded and flipped the rounds out with my thumb. I noticed that the right hand rounds would still nose up, but not the left. Upon closer inspection, the right feed lip was not bent down at the top as much as the left, so I used an 8 oz hammer to peck the top down even with the left side. I also disassembled the magazine and looked at the spring. It was bent at a funny angle, so I straightened it and cleaned the inside of the magazine. I loaded it back up, and it hand cycled perfectly 5 magazines in a row.

I did the same thing to the factory 15 round magazine. I haven't touched the Promag yet, but the USGI has a really weak spring. I ordered a wolf extra power spring for the USGI, and I intend to look at the Promag later today. Apparently it was magazine issues. My ammo order hasn't arrived yet, and I only have 6 rounds left that I'm using to hand cycle. When I get the Promag fixed, I'll run the last 6 through live fire. Hopefully this has fixed the issue, and it won't have to go back to the factory. Apparently Auto Ordnance and Promag magazines are crap, but can be fixed.

 

[GBExpat]

Just wondering, Mr_Flintstone ... what was the reason(s) that you chose to purchase a new-mfr carbine rather than a USGI carbine?

Cost savings?
MFR warranty?
New vs Used?
All of the above?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I went back and forth on this. A few years ago I would have definitely gone with the GI M1, but today even the mishmash specials are well over $1000. I guess if you wait and shop around you can find one for less. As for new production, the new Inlands are over $1000, and use Auto Ordnance receivers. I found what I thought was a good deal (and will be if the magazines are the only issue) for
$640. If I wanted it for collector value, I would have definitely gone with GI, but I just wanted one to use as a shooter, the AO was cheap, and available.

 

[GBExpat]

Aaaahhhhh ... OK. I have seen a couple of mentions recently about how the market prices on USGI M1 carbines have gotten a bit nuts.

I acquired 2 Inlands from the CMP in Summer'07 when they first became available and haven't paid any attention to what they are selling for since then.

Quite frankly, I thought that the $495 CMP price in 2007 was high.

 

[WardenWolf]

I'm very mechanically-inclined myself, and were it me I'd very carefully examine the action and determine what was causing the hangups. I managed to fix my SVT-40's jamming problems by carefully filing a slight bevel into the magazine lips, and I fixed my father's "problem child" Ruger Mark I by determining the follower rivet was dragging on the inside of the grips, causing the action to outrun the magazine.

That said, with it being a brand new gun, I'd probably simply send it back to have any problems I found fixed. Diagnosing the problem yourself is one thing. Voiding your warranty is another. Better to just determine the problem and let them know what you found.

In your case, Mr. Flintstone, I believe the problem is probably the feed ramp on the gun. Feed it slowly by hand, watching closely at what happens and noting any hangups.

 

[Captain O]

Aaaahhhhh ... OK. I have seen a couple of mentions recently about how the market prices on USGI M1 carbines have gotten a bit nuts.

I acquired 2 Inlands from the CMP in Summer'07 when they first became available and haven't paid any attention to what they are selling for since then.

Quite frankly, I thought that the $495 CMP price in 2007 was high.

That was nine years ago. It irritates me that I won't be able to purchase mine until either March or May of 2017. (Depending on how much I can save out of my Veteran's pension check from August of 2016 until then). I'll be saving an average of $200.00 per month.

While I would love to have a decent USGI, it becomes frustrating to discover that I may have to pay upward of $1300.00 to purchase a James River Armory "Rock-Ola" or $1600.00 for a Fulton Armory M1 Carbine.

That's between 8 and 10 months from August 2016 before I can purchase a USGI Carbine. If I buy a Inland Carbine from Ron Norton's company, I'll only need to wait until January. If I buy an A/O, I may only have to wait until November to purchase my M1 Carbine.

Perhaps you may be able to fathom my angst.

 

[dickydalton]

My AO M1 took about 50 rounds to break in. It's been fine since. I use the mag that came with it and other GI mags. A commercial 30 rounder I bought doesn't work well.

 

[greyling22]

{as a disclaimer I have a rockola and an inland carbine, and this is a legit question, not an opportunity for people to hop on soapboxes} but why is it so hard to build a functional new m1 carbine? these things were stamped out by the millions by sewing machine and jukebox companies without the aid of computer cnc machines, and they worked. Why do the new ones choke so easily? Surely we are technologically capable of reproducing a functional firearm. (The same could be asked of magazines. I was given 5 30-rounders that aren't worth the metal they are made of.) I get why they are more valuable and desirable and collectible, but why do they run better?

 

[Captain O]

In order to build a new M1 Carbine in the fashion of the originals, the forging and precision of the builds would force the Carbines to cost approximately $4000.00 per unit. There aren't too many people that can afford such a rifle.

The "top end" quasi-rebuild is a Fulton Armory M1 Carbine. These are excellent rifles but cost $1600.00 for each sample.

The next down the line is a James River Armory M1 Carbine "Rock-Ola" Carbine with receivers and bolt made from billet steel, these run $1300.00 per rifle.

The Cast steel receiver/bolt rifles are:

#1) Inland Manufacturing. These come in 4 types: 1944, 1945 Paratrooper and Advisor (a 12" barreled pistol). Price? between $950.00 and $1100.00. All sport a "Parkerized" finish.

#2) Auto Ordnance/Kahr. These come in various styles: a standard Carbine, Paratrooper model (folding wire stock), and a folding plastic stock model. Prices run between $650.00 to $850.00.

The computerized CNC machining can only do so much. They have fewer threads holding the barrel to the receiver, and churn our stocks with more blemishes than the originals (A/0 suffers from this more frequently). Fit, finish and standard bluing on the A/O isn't quite as consistent as the "Parkerizing" on the Inland Manufacturing Carbines. The A/O Carbines need "breaking in" more than the Inland products.

They all shoot reasonably well, but some require more "fluff and buff" than others. That's the primary difference between the Inland and A/O products.

 

[Art Eatman]

greyling22, the investment costs for production equipment for the GI Carbines was amortized over tens of thousands of units. Odds are that for such as A/O, the costs will amortize over hundreds or a very few thousand units.

 

[Captain O]

greyling22, the investment costs for production equipment for the GI Carbines was amortized over tens of thousands of units. Odds are that for such as A/O, the costs will amortize over hundreds or a very few thousand units.

You are 100% spot on. If the Government subsidized another M1 Carbine as they do the M4, they would, yet again, be as "common as grass". Sadly, it will never happen.

This is why commercial M1 Carbines are difficult to produce well and within economic parameters. This is just a "fact of life".

 

[DaisyCutter]

I got a service grade 1942 M1 Carbine last week for $685. Yes, I''m bragging.

FWIW mine feels very broken in. It takes very little force to cycle the bolt.

 

[okiem1]

Mr. Flintstone the AO magazine catch is out of spec. I purchased a magazine catch from Fulton Armory and also replaced the recoil spring. A magazine catch is easy to install; review YouTube video on subject. The AO now shoots perfect. If you send the AO in for repairs it will probably be replaced with another out of spec magazine catch. Also note that the type 1 barrel band spacer is to wide. The handguard will fall off. Again I replaced with a type 2 barrel band from Fulton Armory. The type 2 screws on from the bottom, much tighter and durable. As Captain stated there is also a break in period. Also try Korean KCI magazines, about $10.00 a piece. Probably the best outside of GI's.

 

[ugaarguy]

I've removed the "M1 Carbine vs. X" chatter and moved it to another thread. That's allowed me to re-open this thread so the OP can hopefully get some help with his issue.

 

[agtman]

Still not clear on the mags, which appear to be the main defective component based on numerous on-line complaints as well as the official review in Am. Rifleman.

Are these made in-house by Inland Mfg or are they out-sourcing production to some foreign maker?

Hopefully there's a warranty covering them that's at least as good as Taurus'.

 

[Captain O]

Mr. Flintstone the AO magazine catch is out of spec. I purchased a magazine catch from Fulton Armory and also replaced the recoil spring. A magazine catch is easy to install; review YouTube video on subject. The AO now shoots perfect. If you send the AO in for repairs it will probably be replaced with another out of spec magazine catch. Also note that the type 1 barrel band spacer is to wide. The handguard will fall off. Again I replaced with a type 2 barrel band from Fulton Armory. The type 2 screws on from the bottom, much tighter and durable. As Captain stated there is also a break in period. Also try Korean KCI magazines, about $10.00 a piece. Probably the best outside of GI's.

The Korean magazines are your best bet. I know that I'll be buying some for my James River Armory Carbine in 2017. A/O has had problems with their magazines from the beginning. IF you check CMP, you can obtain some USGI from them as well.

Good luck in your search.