appleseed shoots

[rmaisonp]

I'm interested in attending an appleseed weekend shoot but have gotten a bit confused on preferred rifle selection. I've seen suggestions for 03-A3 or SMLE
or other older battle rifles but they also refer to large capacity mags?? Besides, those look a bit punishing if we're expected to go thru 400 rounds in a weekend. Would a standard type sporting bolt rifle in .223 or .308 with a 4 round capacity be ok. I'd also love to use my scoped CZ452 (.22rf) but they seem to prefer iron sights, especially ghost ring type. They seem to really like ruger 10/22 with several spare mags. That rifle is not at all high on my wish list.
Some thoughts from appleseed alumnae would be welcome. Thanks all.

 

[CraigC]

Folks shoot them with centerfires and that is fine. However, all shooting is done at 25yds and you can expect to shoot 500rds or more in two days, much of it from the prone position. You simply put yourself in a better position to learn with a rimfire rifle without the muzzle blast and recoil of a centerfire. IMHO, it's more important to learn the skills, which can be then translated to your centerfire. The money you'll spend on ammo can easily be used to buy a suitable rimfire rifle instead.

On rifles. The course of fire is patterned after WWII era army qualification tests which is intended for a semi-auto. All stages are timed and quite honestly, there is very little time to be manually manipulating your action. You can certainly earn your patch with a boltgun but you will certainly have earned it. You're only shooting against yourself and some folks like the challenge of it. For the purposes of learning the fundamentals as well as having the best tool to earn your patch, a semi-auto .22LR is the best choice. The 10/22 is highly favored because it is quite affordable, accurate, reliable and needs only a set of aperture sights (not ghost ring), some extra magazines and a proper sling. The preferred equipment is a set of Tech Sights and a cotton GI sling. Both of which can be procured here:
http://www.tech-sights.com

All that said, you can shoot anything you wish. Some rifles are better suited than others and will put you in a better position to earn your patch. Regardless of what you're shooting, if you arrive with an open mind and a willingness to learn, you will leave a better shooter.

 

[ScratchnDent]

A semi-auto .22 with detachable mags is ideal, but they are not picky, and you can shoot pretty much any rifle you want as long as it's not larger than 8mm.

At the one I attended, there were Garands, M1A's, M1 carbines, AR-15's, SKS's, Mosin Nagants, Enfields, and a bunch of different .22s, with the 10/22 being most common.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Shoot what you got, they are not picky. I'm bringing my Sig and a 10/22 as a backup.

 

[Ghost Dog]

Out of curiosity, In an effort to improve my skills and proficiency with a muzzle loader would they allow a .45 cal cap lock or a .50 cal inline? Using a BP substitute would reduce the amount of smoke if that was an issue. I realize I wouldn't keep up with the auto loaders but I'd like to improve my reloading speed and accuracy. Good coaching and a day or two of practice would certainly help!

G D

 

[Usagi]

Use a .22 semiauto.

To get the most out of AS, follow these guidelines:
- Bring what they say to bring
- Marlin 795 and/or Ruger 10/22 are the most common for a reason. Bring one.
- Use tech sights or scope
- Bring decent ammo that your .22 likes. 500+ rounds.
- Make sure you have a GI sling that attaches to the rifle.
- At least 2 mags (10-rounders). 4 mags is better, 6 is even better...
- Know your rifle:
a) how to clear malfunctions
b) special operations (bolt hold-open, specific characteristics, etc.)
c) loading / unloading


If you do these things, you will only have to worry about following instructions.

 

[arizona98tj]

The skills that you learn at an Appleseed shoot are useful on any rifle. My suggestion.....learn on a .22LR and then when time permits, practice them using any of your other favorites rifles. If you learn on a .22LR, you won't have to endure the expense (and recoil) of 400~500 rounds of .308, .30-06, or other large caliber cartridge.

 

[IV Troop]

It sounds like great program. I really would like to attend. Actually it sounds like extremely inexpensive training. Compare Appleseed costs to Gunsite for a fundamentals of rifle marksmanship class and it seems like THE bargain of the century in the training arena.

 

[CraigC]

Out of curiosity, In an effort to improve my skills and proficiency with a muzzle loader would they allow a .45 cal cap lock or a .50 cal inline? Using a BP substitute would reduce the amount of smoke if that was an issue. I realize I wouldn't keep up with the auto loaders but I'd like to improve my reloading speed and accuracy. Good coaching and a day or two of practice would certainly help!

A boltgun is bad enough but a muzzleloader would be a very, very poor choice for an Appleseed event. If they would even allow it. I just can't even begin to describe the difficulty for both shooter and instructor. You'd be far better off to just pony up a hundred bucks for a Marlin 795 and a couple bricks of bulk ammo to learn the fundamentals with. Then put those fundamentals to use with whatever you shoot.

 

[armoredman]

When time/money permit it, I am going to try one. I will have to load up a BUNCh of ammo for my vz-58, first!

 

[Hatterasguy]

I know I should do it with the Ruger but I'm going to use the Sig because it will be more fun for me, I love that rifle. 5.56 isn't that expensive.

 

[Salty1]

I will be attending one on Oct 2nd and 3rd. I will bring a Sig 522 and a Ruger 10/22. At this point I do not truly know which one I will use, depends on how my old eyes feel on the first day I guess....

 

[Smokey Joe]

Nitpicking...

Craig C.--You said

The course of fire is patterned after WWII era army qualification tests which is intended for a semi-auto.

With which I must disagree. The original WWII-era AQT (Army Qualification Test) was designed for soldiers shooting Springfield 1903's and 1903-A3's. Or 1917 Enfields.

Any rifle with a magazine holding a minimum of 5 rounds will do just fine for an Appleseed event. Stripper clips work dandy for rifles with non-removable box magazines. Speedloaders work OK for tubular-mag .22 rifles. Removable 5-round or more, box magazines, with a spare or 2, are by far the easiest. If the rifle's magazine must be single-loaded by hand, you'll have trouble with the timed events, but if that's what you got, bring it and shoot it. (I earned my Rifleman badge with one such.) The Appleseed people will work with you to get the best from your equipment.

Also, at some Appleseed events, depending on time, permission, and the facilities available, sometimes on the second day you get to shoot at distances like 100, 200, or 300 yds. That'd be AFTER you have gotten a firm hold on the basics on Day One. So, in a perfect world, an Appleseed shooter would bring their autoloading, removable box magazine, adjustable-peep sighted, sling-swivelled, .22, AND their similarly set-up centerfire. And, of course, plenty of ammo for both.

 

[Usagi]

Smokey Joe said:

The original WWII-era AQT (Army Qualification Test) was designed for soldiers shooting Springfield 1903's and 1903-A3's. Or 1917 Enfields.

The AQT used for the 1903 & 1917 Enfield was different - Link. (Page 4)

The current one was designed for the M1 Garand - hence prepping the "8 & 2."
The 1903 has a 5-round magazine, so one could not load 8 rounds if they wanted to.
The 1917 has a 6-round magazine per a quick Google search (never seen one), so an 8-round load would be likewise impossible.
ETA: Times were different, too. As was when the rifle was reloaded (1903 version - reload was not done during the timed portion - M1 Garand, the reloading was done in the timed portion).

---

Given that the Appleseed's AQT setup is based off the old military course of fire designed for the M1 Garand, and later the M14 / M1A - I reiterate a strong suggestion for not just any rifle, but a box-magazine fed semiauto. No reason for the ordinary shooter to handicap himself.
Alternately, accomplished High-Power shooters and folks equally skilled might want the challenge of a bolt-action.

 

[colonelhogan44]

I earned my patch using an old Marlin bolt action .22 with the stock sights. Loosing your exact sight picture cycling the bolt makes it much more difficult, but still doable, although you're at a severe disadvantage as opposed to the semi-auto guys.

But go. It's really worth it.

 

[teirst]

It is hard to beat a Marlin 795 with tech sites and a couple extra mags for an appleseed.

 

[MrBear27604]

I'll be taking my 10/22 with the tech sights and the AR and going to the "home" range in Ramseur NC. I hope to shoot both the 25m as well as the full length course of fire.

 

[lot21]

I'm taking my two boys to a shoot in October. I was stressing out on bringing the right guns but I figure I'll what I bring. I'm borrowing a 10/22 and a Marlin 60 to go with my own 10/22. That will have to do. I can't spend a lot on mags for rifles I don't own, plus the 60 is a tube.
I've spent enough on slings and 1 1/4" mounts already. They are all scoped. It will just have to do.

I'll take my 917V .17 HMR as a backup, 4 & 7 round clips.

 

[bgeddes]

I just shot the Appleseed this weekend, here is a summary things that would have helped me and others:

1) Know the rifle controls. Practice mag changes and malfunctions.
2) Get the sling they sell, or one exactly like it. It makes a difference.
3) Zero before you get there. Get the rifle shooting at home.
4) Practice the positions and transitions.
5) Get some extra ammo, and know what your gun likes.

It is a great program and I will be attending another much better prepared.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Yeah I'm working on zeroing my Sig, due to a lazy seller I didn't get the sights I ordered a month ago until late last week...and I'm going to the Appleseed this weekend.

 

[quietman]

Marlin 60's work fine, if you have speed loaders. (There is a work around in the AQT for tube feds for a magazine change) .You can make some speedloaders really cheap out of 1/2" PEX and foam ear plugs. Get the straight pieces of PEX that are in 5 and 10 foot lengths.

Cut the PEX long enough to hold about 15 rounds. Glue a foam ear plug in one end. Load it up and stick a plug in the other end. (15 rnd length is for later use, at the Appleseed 10 rnds is enough)

If you want to get fancy you can bevel the end that sits on the tube. I used an old knife for that.

I glued 3 together and they worked better than the speed-d-loader I spent $20 on.

Cost was something like $3

The shoot boss thought it was the best home made rig he'd seen and actually took pictures of it.

As far as recommended equipment, you can use factory irons, but your accuracy won't be as good as with peeps.

If budget is limited, use the factory irons, but buy the GI cotton sling. (about $15)

I actually shot the first day with a Henry lever as both my semi-autos were loaned out. No issues using it other than learning to minimize movement of the cocking arm. If it wasn't for the Firesight I put on the front being so bright it was screwing up my aim (too much glow), would have used it the second day too.

 

[wooldl]

Looks like a lot of good advice here! The only things I would add are these: 1) Be sure to take a teachable attitude.....practice what they tell you and your groups will shrink, and 2) Don't worry too much about zeroing your rifle before you get there, you will be shooting a LOT of 5 shot groups at 1" squares and there will be plenty of time to zero, OK, and 3) know your equipment and have the tools handy to retighten loose screws and make sight adjustments if necessary.

wooldl

 

[kBob]

Tube speed loader:

I used a tube ctter to cut up and old aluminimum arrow that had seen better days. No need to close one end as you have two tubes, one with a knock at one end and the other with the broadheads female screw blocking it. WHen I was a kid we used bits of old TV antennas and drilled a small hole through the open end. A bobbie-pin with the straight leag through the holes and the ckrinkle bit "locking the outer edge of the tube a bit of strignf through the Bobbie-pin loop to easily snatch the pin out and viola'

At the Appleseed I atteneded I gave a Marlin 60 guy a milkshake straw and one end got closed with duck-tape. It seemed to work in that limited situation.

The two guys to my right used AR-15s and I think a guy way down on the left used a Marlin .22 Lever action. I hope to have my Oly Arms .22 Adaptor working for my next attempt, though I am concerned not only with the reliability, but with accuracy.

I wish I had the LTR 10/22 I put together for this year's last shoot when I was a kid. Of course there were no Tech Sights and the aperatures available then cost as much as the rifle. Would have made my habit in middle and high school more afforadable than the M-1 Carbine I had!

I guess my lay out for the LTR 10/22 was about $250. $150 for the used 10/22 $65 for the sights, a new spare magazine, a set of Uncle Mikes sling mounts and swivels and a cotton G.I sling. Oh and the time I spent tinkering.

I have since added an exteneded magazine release ( someone gave me an old Ram-line plastic one a decade or so ago and it has been in a junk box since) am considering modifying the bolt lock/release, and puttering about with the trigger pull. I will be releving barrel band pressure on the barrel and am thinking about other stock mods. The excuse to the wife about the time and efforts spent improving the 10/22 to help me make my patch next time is enough fun to justify the expense of the classes by it self!

-kBob

 

[7.62 Nato]

I shot the Appleseed with an AR w/.22 conversion kit. I had a 10/22 for backup. Although the AR functioned flawless I think the 10/22 would have been a better choice. They are teaching BASICS which many of us never learned. I believe the more basic the rifle the better. You can practice what you've learned on any firearm afterward.

 

[03a3]

I shot my first Appleseed event last weekend as well. Took a Ruger 10/22 as well as an AR-15 with A2 sights. Ruger 10/22's were the most prevalent rifles there. Recommend you bring the following:

Mat to lay on
Nylon style rifle sling
4 mags
Stapler to attach targets
Permanent marker
Ear plugs and ear muffs

I learned a lot and hope to attend another one in the spring.