Appropriate Level of Force

[DMK]

I agree with HK, it takes a certain amount of training to use a less than lethal device properly.

I agree with you guys about this. I would be extremely uncomfortable with deploying a baton against an attacker since I have no training in how to use it effectively.

And in a lot of cases having a "club/baton" in your hand makes you look like the badguy to the cops

C_yeager, I assume that you mean in the case of deploying a baton in place of something like OC spray might make you look more like the attacker than the victim to the police. I tend to agree to some extent. However, at the point of self defence, the apearance of my action to others is low on my list of priorities. Certainly, it's very important, but on the relative scale of things, I've got bigger problems at that point.

First task is to stop the attacker, second is to deal with the reprocussions. You may not get to #2 on your ToDo list if you fail #1.

 

[ysr_racer]

If somebody attacks you (unarmed) fight back. If you don't know how to fight, learn to fight or learn to run.

Shooting someone because you didn't want to get beaten up, is not going to look good in court

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Shooting someone because you didn't want to get beaten up, is not going to look good in court

Maybe. Maybe not. At what point in getting your head pounded into the concrete are you allowed to draw your weapon? Assuming of course, they guy doing the pounding hasn't relieved you of it by that time.

There is no way to determine an aggressor's skill level in hand-to-hand before he attacks. You don't know if he in fact does have a weapon that you haven't seen yet or he has friends around the corner. Someone of small stature such as Runt could hardly protect herself against a Mike Tyson with just her fists.

If confronted and without an escape route, the next safest thing is distance. Keep the BG away from you. Try to get something like a car between you. If you want, let the BG know you are armed and will shoot him if he continues his attack.

Unlike TV, in the real world, you don't fight fair. You fight to stay alive. Only in the movies do people drop their weapon and take on the bad guy one-on-one.

IMO, if a BG continues to advance on you after he knows you are armed, it meets the criteria for using deadly force. He is either insane or wants to harm you bad enough to put himself in danger of being killed just to get at you.

 

[Black Snowman]

I'm with HK on this one too. Your life is in immediate danger if someone is aggressive and attempting to close. If escape is impossible I'd play the gun card ASAP. You can be killed just as dead by a bare fist as you can by a nuke.

A knife or impact weapon can be defeated by a skilled or lucky assailant. A bullet is much harder to stop and a gun has a much greater psychological effect. If the assailant doesn't know you're armed or if you seem hesitant the odds of getting into a situation where you HAVE to fire to stop them are greatly increased. If your lawyer can't get you out of a lawsuit in these situations then you need a new lawyer or your in the PRK.

That doesn't mean that having other means of defending yourself isn't necessary. Sometimes a knife or even a stick will be more prudent than a handgun, such as in a grappling situation like if you're jumped from behind. Have a knife or two is the most compact protection you can have. I certainly wouldn't depend on being able to draw and fire safely if they're close enough that you can use pepper spray on them and if it comes to hand-to-hand ranges, you've likely already lost.

Also keep in mind if the BG does win, and doesn't kill you, you've most likely just armed him with a handgun he can use on other victims so that they won't struggle like you did and you'll have to live with that on your conscious.

When I was in grade school I was chased by a neighbor kid who had come over to my house without my permission. He grabbed my brothers nunchuku (sp?) and came after me and a friend. I knew I couldn't out-run him and I went straight for the single shot 12 gauge in my parent's room. He didn't back down until I cocked the hammer. But no one was injured and nobody went to jail. His parents got an earful from mine however. I never saw him again. I think this was the best possible way this scenario could have ended.

 

[c_yeager]

I think that if you are going to choose to have deadly force as an option it should be your responsibility to provide yourself with a level beneath that should the situation call for it. If that means learning how to fight, carrying OC, or getting training with a contanct weapon so be it. But, being armed is a choice that carries with it a certain level of responsibility. And not ALL dangerous situations call for deadly force.

For example, i have encountered a few REALLY tough old ladies in my job. Ones who may have decided to take a few swings at me. I would be QUITE remiss to resort to shooting one of them. It all depends on the situation. And you owe it to yourself to leave your options open.