AR-10 .308 - Which brands are best?

[JD_0311]

Hello all

This is my first post to this forum, been a lurker for awhile. I am finally in a position to spend some money, and I am looking to purchase an AR-10 in .308. This rifle would be purposed as a "battle rifle" so I want something that is reliable, durable, relatively lightweight, and can still reach out to about 500 - 600 meters if I need it to. I am willing to pay a bit more for higher quality, but there are so many brands I don't know which are actually better vs. just paying for the brand name. I'd appreciate your assistance and help.

After looking for awhile I was considering Windham Weaponry, but also potentially Daniel Defense. The latter has a higher cost, and I wonder if it truly represents a better quality. I believe 18" barrel would be the best option for what I am looking for, but would appreciate your opinion about 16" or 20" as alternative choices.

Would want to know if the particular brand you recommend is compatible with Magpul PMAGs in 308, as I know some brands are not.

Thank you in advance, and if you need anymore information please let me know.

Cheers

 

[Robert]

LaRue OBR
JP
Daniel Defense

All of them would fit the bill. It really depends on how much you want to spend. Aero Precision also makes good rifles.

 

[Trey Veston]

I chose a Palmetto State Armory Magpul lower for $170, then a PSA 18" upper for $499. So far, it is flawless and is showing promise as being capable of 1 MOA or better accuracy.

You can buy complete rifles for $879...

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...steel-15-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle.html

I'm in no way an AR expert or even decent armchair QB, but I know everything I've bought from PSA has been flawless and worked fine out of the box.

I'm sure others can defend their choices in spending hundreds of dollars more for a rifle, but mine work quite well...

 

[js8588]

For what you're looking to do, I would absolutely recommend the Daniel Defense.

CHF Barrel
Top of the line BCG with my personal favorite finish (Ionbond)
Fully ambidextrous controls in the lower.
It's the only AR10 on the market that comes in the configuration I'd be likely to build one in.

 

[Trey Veston]

For what you're looking to do, I would absolutely recommend the Daniel Defense.

CHF Barrel
Top of the line BCG with my personal favorite finish (Ionbond)
Fully ambidextrous controls in the lower.
It's the only AR10 on the market that comes in the configuration I'd be likely to build one in.

Please tell me what a $2500 AR-10 will do better than my $600 AR-10 does that the OP has specified?

My trigger does kind of suck at 6lbs, but I can fix that for less than the $1900 price difference.

 

[cdb1]

The place where I sold firearms from 2014-2016 carried Daniel Defense. The only negative I heard was the occasional complaint about customer service. Something along the lines of the owner refusing to acknowledge the rare issue because there was no way one of his rifles could ever be defective in any way. I spoke to the owner over the phone once and he was pretty arrogant. Things might have changed for the better since then.

 

[js8588]

Please tell me what a $2500 AR-10 will do better than my $600 AR-10 does that the OP has specified?

My trigger does kind of suck at 6lbs, but I can fix that for less than the $1900 price difference.

I hate playing the "just as good as" game, but I'll specify again why I recommend the DD over the PSA (and I'm not hating on PSA. They make good stuff).

PSA Barrel: untreated 416R stainless A2 Profile 1:10 twist. Mid Length Gas System
DD Barrel: CHF Chrome Lined 4150 S2W Profile 1:11 twist. Rifle length gas system.

The Daniel Defense barrel will outlast the PSA barrel. CHF/CL will have a much better service life. The PSA -may- be more accurate, but at the price point, I wouldn't bet on it. I actually prefer a mid-length gas system as I personally believe them to be more reliable, so, kudos to PSA there. Both have adjustable gas blocks, if that's your thing. The barrel profile of the DD is superior as far as barrel harmonics go (constant tapering from receiver to muzzle vs the A2 skinny under the handguard/more weight up front).

Receiver sets. Both 7075 with a forward assist. Daniel Defense lower is fully ambidextrous including bolt catch/drop. I'm always willing to shell out $ for that kind of versatility. Not everyone is. I get it.

Daniel Defense has an ambi charging handle. PSA includes a mil-spec. Literally the worst feature of an AR pattern rifle.

PSA has a Toolcraft nitrided BCG. That's probably good enough. I'll leave this here, though.

Daniel Defense has a polished DLC coated BCG (I like Nitride. I love DLC. Cleans far easier but either are superior to Phosphate).
This sums it up

The barrel, ambi lower, and BCG are why I would choose the DD as my rifle (I'm building my own, though, and I'll probably end up dumping more than $2500 into it).

Is the PSA "good enough"? Yeah, probably.

Is it 'as good as"? No.

Both need a trigger upgrade as far as I'm concerned. I'd change the furniture on both (I prefer fixed stocks). I'd take the adjustable gas block off both and replace it with a titanium non-adjustable unit because I'm a weirdo about that.
I'd swap the handguards on both for a MI 18 inch because the way a handguard looks running the full length of the barrel makes me happy.

The above paragraph is just to demonstrate that I don't believe either is perfect and some of my preferences are just a result of me being borderline autistic when it comes to firearms.

The DD is about a half pound lighter all up (8.6 vs 9.2lbs) despite having a barrel with more meat on it.

 

[Trey Veston]

I hate playing the "just as good as" game, but I'll specify again why I recommend the DD over the PSA (and I'm not hating on PSA. They make good stuff).

PSA Barrel: untreated 416R stainless A2 Profile 1:10 twist. Mid Length Gas System
DD Barrel: CHF Chrome Lined 4150 S2W Profile 1:11 twist. Rifle length gas system.

The Daniel Defense barrel will outlast the PSA barrel. CHF/CL will have a much better service life. The PSA -may- be more accurate, but at the price point, I wouldn't bet on it. I actually prefer a mid-length gas system as I personally believe them to be more reliable, so, kudos to PSA there. Both have adjustable gas blocks, if that's your thing. The barrel profile of the DD is superior as far as barrel harmonics go (constant tapering from receiver to muzzle vs the A2 skinny under the handguard/more weight up front).

Receiver sets. Both 7075 with a forward assist. Daniel Defense lower is fully ambidextrous including bolt catch/drop. I'm always willing to shell out $ for that kind of versatility. Not everyone is. I get it.

Daniel Defense has an ambi charging handle. PSA includes a mil-spec. Literally the worst feature of an AR pattern rifle.

PSA has a Toolcraft nitrided BCG. That's probably good enough. I'll leave this here, though.

Daniel Defense has a polished DLC coated BCG (I like Nitride. I love DLC. Cleans far easier but either are superior to Phosphate).
This sums it up

The barrel, ambi lower, and BCG are why I would choose the DD as my rifle (I'm building my own, though, and I'll probably end up dumping more than $2500 into it).

Is the PSA "good enough"? Yeah, probably.

Is it 'as good as"? No.

Both need a trigger upgrade as far as I'm concerned. I'd change the furniture on both (I prefer fixed stocks). I'd take the adjustable gas block off both and replace it with a titanium non-adjustable unit because I'm a weirdo about that.
I'd swap the handguards on both for a MI 18 inch because the way a handguard looks running the full length of the barrel makes me happy.

The above paragraph is just to demonstrate that I don't believe either is perfect and some of my preferences are just a result of me being borderline autistic when it comes to firearms.

The DD is about a half pound lighter all up (8.6 vs 9.2lbs) despite having a barrel with more meat on it.

Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response!

Like I said, I'm in no way an AR expert; I carried one in the military and own a few for personal use. All of my "cheap" ARs have been 100% reliable and up to task for my plinking and hunting needs.

My brother won a Seekins AR in a raffle a few years ago with a retail value of around $2k and we took his new toy to the range to try out. The difference in feel and quality over my sub-$800 AR was substantial. It was like driving a 1995 Pontiac Grand Am, then getting behind the wheel of a 2019 BMW. I understood the huge jump in price.

But, I hate seeing people shell out big bucks for a firearm just because they want "the best" for bragging rights when a perfectly capable and adequate firearm will meet all of their needs.

Yes, the Daniel Defense is a better rifle. But is it $1900 better? That's a 312% increase in price. Are the differences you noted worth 300% more than a PSA rifle?

Obviously to some they are. To the OP? Maybe...

 

[FL-NC]

I am satisfied with my Larue. It performs better than the SR25's and M110's I used in the mil.

 

[Skylerbone]

@JD_0311 welcome to the forum! My first question to you is a bit personal as it pertains to funds. You mention being in a position to fund this purchase, and now the personal part; do you have the means to run an AR10?

I don’t intend for that to be a call out or a demand to glimpse personal finances, just a point to consider.

 

[JD_0311]

@Skylerbone Thank you for the welcome! Yes, I have ensured to be responsible and patient until I was in a position to purchase an AR-10, without compromising savings or emergency funds. Unfortunately, that has coincided with the current pandemic, which complicates matters slightly for firearm purchases (much more so for ammunition availability).

I can afford a DD AR10 (or even Larue) over a Windham, just want to make sure it is truly worth the cost. On a sidenote, can anyone tell me much about Windham Weaponry AR-10s? Would a DD be worth the extra $600-800?

Thanks

 

[MySuomi]

I have built 3 different AR10's. All of them used PSA lowers. One used a CBC Industries Upper, One used a PSA Upper and one used an Alexandria arms upper. While I cannot compare them to more expensive Daniel Defense etc. models, all 3 work fine and group nicely. The good news is that you have lots of options. One note: All 3 of my AR10 builds feel pretty heavy. Not good rifles to hold up to your shoulder for very long. That might be one thing that the more expensive rifles bring to the table.... lower weight.

Once you put a scope on the rifle, plus a suppressor, and the bipod it is hard to fit in any of my rifle cases. And it is definitely a prone firing position rifle.

 

[Armorer 101]

View attachment 912381 First things first. Not one of the 308s mentioned or discussed here so far is an Armalite AR-10. Not One!
The AR-10 is a copywrited name and is patented by Armalite, period. They do license others to make the design, but the design is very distinctive and always called an AR-10. I own four, I bought them for shooting matches and distances. The DPMS and AR-10 parts do not interchange, bolts and barrels are different as is the barrel extension. No such thing as MILSPEC in an AR-10 or 308 AR. Order a complete upper and a complete lower of the same make at least. You want a true match gun, order an AR-10 T with a national match trigger, it is heavy and designed to be so. You can order the competition model also but AR-10s are not cheap imitations.

https://www.armalite.com/

 

[Skeptic13]

I would also look at the Smith and Wesson M&P10. They have an 18 inch barrel version that is lightweight and very reliable. Runs around $1400 to $1500.

 

[TonyAngel]

If you're shopping around and don't know much about the "AR10" you should do some research. It isn't so much just what brand to get, but also a matter of which pattern. AR10s are not standardized like AR15s are. There are two patterns of the .308 AR. The Armalite pattern and the DPMS pattern. The Armalite pattern was the original, but has become much less popular. The DPMS pattern is what you usually see around. The term "AR10" actually applies to the Armalite version. I don't know a whole lot about .308 ARs, except that I've built a few for people with their parts and shot a bunch. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen an Armalite version, but if you walk into a store and ask for an AR10, you might just get exactly that. From what I understand, the magazines are not interchangeable and getting one over the other may mean having to pay high prices for magazines.

I'd stick with the DPMS, LR308, I think it's called, for availability of magazines and parts. If you have the money, buy a Larue. I think their stuff is way over priced, but it's very good stuff nonetheless. Otherwise, Palmetto and others have good stuff too, that you will likely not wear out. I don't know if they make a .308 model, but check Smith and Wesson, Bushmaster, Rock River, etc. Really, these days, I think you'd be hard pressed to find junk if you stick with reputable manufacturers. That's why I build my own when it comes to ARs. There is so much good stuff out there, might as well build with exactly what you want rather than pay for parts that you're going to replace anyway.

 

[silicosys4]

I hate playing the "just as good as" game, but I'll specify again why I recommend the DD over the PSA (and I'm not hating on PSA. They make good stuff).

PSA Barrel: untreated 416R stainless A2 Profile 1:10 twist. Mid Length Gas System
DD Barrel: CHF Chrome Lined 4150 S2W Profile 1:11 twist. Rifle length gas system.

The Daniel Defense barrel will outlast the PSA barrel. CHF/CL will have a much better service life. The PSA -may- be more accurate, but at the price point, I wouldn't bet on it. I actually prefer a mid-length gas system as I personally believe them to be more reliable, so, kudos to PSA there. Both have adjustable gas blocks, if that's your thing. The barrel profile of the DD is superior as far as barrel harmonics go (constant tapering from receiver to muzzle vs the A2 skinny under the handguard/more weight up front).

Couple of points I'd like to address here about the PSA PA-10. When I ordered a 20" stainless A2 barrel profile PA-10 upper, their "A2" profile is...interesting. After the chamber the barrel tapers to 1", which extends to the gas block where it steps down to .75", which continues to the muzzle. It's more of a bull profile and not a traditional A2...and its heavy. I can't say that the profile or the barrel itself is particularly accurate, but i've only run untuned plinking ammo reloaded with pulled milsurp bullets through mine with about 2" MOA results and acceptable reliability. 2 FTF in 200 rounds so far from Magpul magazines. One round turned out to be a reloading issue as it wouldn't chamber in my FAL either.

Receiver sets. Both 7075 with a forward assist. Daniel Defense lower is fully ambidextrous including bolt catch/drop. I'm always willing to shell out $ for that kind of versatility. Not everyone is. I get it.

Daniel Defense has an ambi charging handle. PSA includes a mil-spec. Literally the worst feature of an AR pattern rifle.

I wont disagree with anything here. I will add though that ambi parts and a charging handle are simple enough to add to PSA's PA-10.

PSA has a Toolcraft nitrided BCG. That's probably good enough. I'll leave this here, though.

Toolcraft supplies the U.S. military with BCG's. They are good enough. I don't know what that kids deal is, but an endorsement by the U.S. military is pretty substantial.
The kid was talking about 2 toolcraft 5.56 bolts each breaking after 7500 rounds of "hard use"...that kind of service life on a 7.62 bolt is also going to burn at least $3500 worth of ammo, and at least one barrel and maybe 2, before the bolt breaks.

Daniel Defense has a polished DLC coated BCG (I like Nitride. I love DLC. Cleans far easier but either are superior to Phosphate).
This sums it up

Daniel Defense BCG's are very high quality, but Toolcraft are also high quality, and also offers DLC coatings on their BCG's. I would not be surprised if DD is using rebranded Toolcraft BCG's in their guns. I haven't been able to find who makes DD bgc's.

The barrel, ambi lower, and BCG are why I would choose the DD as my rifle (I'm building my own, though, and I'll probably end up dumping more than $2500 into it).

Well, the barrel is a full bull profile on my A2 PA-10, the ambi lower parts can be ordered and installed for under $100, and the BCG's are, to be fair, comparable in quality and options.
I paid $209 for my PA-10 lower with their polished trigger and ACS-L stock , and $399 for my 20" stainless PA-10 upper with a 15" M-lok handguard. You can get them for a bit cheaper with a standard handguard, but the m-lok handguard is a good quality upgrade for the $50 it cost over standard. I added a Tubbs spring and H3 buffer for less vigorous ejection to save wear on my brass. Add $100 to that for the Ambi parts, and you are at $800 or so.

Is the PSA "good enough"? Yeah, probably.

Is it 'as good as"? No.

An ambi upgraded PA-10 is also roughly $1800 cheaper with comparable features, reliability, and from what i'm reading from others who have actually accuracy tested theirs, the accuracy is more than acceptable. Now, I don't know how much $1800 matters to the OP, but I could add a very nice trigger and replace the barrel of the PA-10 to my tastes and still be $1000 under the price of a Daniel Defense rifle. At that point the difference is purely cosmetic.

Both need a trigger upgrade as far as I'm concerned. I'd change the furniture on both (I prefer fixed stocks). I'd take the adjustable gas block off both and replace it with a titanium non-adjustable unit because I'm a weirdo about that.
I'd swap the handguards on both for a MI 18 inch because the way a handguard looks running the full length of the barrel makes me happy.

The above paragraph is just to demonstrate that I don't believe either is perfect and some of my preferences are just a result of me being borderline autistic when it comes to firearms.

The DD is about a half pound lighter all up (8.6 vs 9.2lbs) despite having a barrel with more meat on it.

Boy, I wouldn't want more meat on my PA10 barrel. That sucker is heavy

 

[js8588]

Hey, speaking of Toolcraft bolts...

 

[ether]

From what I can tell, you can spend just about as much as you want to on an AR10. My friend has a GAP that he spent thousands on. It shoots very well. I can't afford that much, but I just posted a new thread of my initial impressions of the Armalite AR10 I picked up: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/armalite-ar10tac16.867798/

Unfortunately, DPMS closed their doors. They weren't the "best" brand, but they were a good company before Cerberus/Remington et al got a hold of them.

 

[Skylerbone]

POF Revolution is where I would spend my money if I were looking for a 1-stop .308 solution. Under 7 1/2 lbs.

 

[cdb1]

I would be happy with a Windham. The only reason I would consider spending more than the general price of a Windham would be for sub-MOA accuracy.

I only have one AR though so I’m definitely not an expert.

 

[JO JO]

Springfield has the 308 saint out as well ,don't know anything about it but it is another idea
I too am thinking about getting a 308

 

[silicosys4]

Hey, speaking of Toolcraft bolts...

Toolcraft makes something like 9000 bcg's per day and supplies bcg's to the military as well as many name brand mfg's.

Military contracts and OEM supplier vs. One unconfirmed uncorraborated problem on the internet.

Not convincing.

 

[12Bravo20]

Well I have a Gen 1 PSA 20" stainless upper that has a rifle length gas system and after just checking their website, the Gen 2 and Gen 3 20" stainless uppers also have rifle length gas systems.

From Palmetto State Armory website:

Barrel: The dimpled, 416R Stainless Steel, 308 WIN 1/10 twist, rifle-length gas system upper is paired with a Palmetto State Armory 15" M-Lok free-float rail, low profile adjustable click detent 5 position gas block, and an A2-style muzzle device.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...l-15-lightweight-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch.html

You will always have people that have to justify how much they spent by bashing lower cost alternatives. The main thing to remember about any and all large frame AR rifles is to either buy a complete rifle or if you build, buy all your parts from the same manufacturer due to there not being any type of standard design/specifications.

OP you will be well served by either the Windham Weapons or Daniel Defense rifles. I haven't shot a Windham 308 but I do know that their 5.56 AR15 barrels are good to go. As far as magazines go, as long as the rifle is of the SR25/DPMS pattern then yes they will accept MagPul magazines.

 

[BigBL87]

Couple of points I'd like to address here about the PSA PA-10. When I ordered a 20" stainless A2 barrel profile PA-10 upper, their "A2" profile is...interesting. After the chamber the barrel tapers to 1", which extends to the gas block where it steps down to .75", which continues to the muzzle. It's more of a bull profile and not a traditional A2...and its heavy. I can't say that the profile or the barrel itself is particularly accurate, but i've only run untuned plinking ammo reloaded with pulled milsurp bullets through mine with about 2" MOA results and acceptable reliability. 2 FTF in 200 rounds so far from Magpul magazines. One round turned out to be a reloading issue as it wouldn't chamber in my FAL either.

Replacing the barrel on the PA-10 with one likely superior in accuracy to the DD isn't even that expensive either. Sub-MOA guranteed barrels are available from Ballistic Advantage ranging in price from $210-280 with a variety of barrel length, material, and treatment options.

Were I ever to talk myself into one, I'd probably end up getting a PA-10 and upgrading a part at a time. Alot more affordable by the end AND I can shoot it in the meantime rather than continuing to have to save up for the more expensive option.

 

[Skylerbone]

One note on ToolCraft, and I just ordered my seventh today, is that they make carriers. ToolCraft will supply vendors with complete BCGs but those are completed to spec. Only authorized dealers can sell complete “ToolCraft” BCGs while others may claim it’s a ToolCraft but is actually a stripped carrier that’s been completed by a reseller.

Even so, one could buy a ToolCraft for 1/3 the price of certain others and replace the bolt with one of their choosing and likely still be at 1/2 cost.