I am looking to build an AR-15 and I need to know what lower and uppers are good. By good I mean medium in price and relaible (if such a thing exists). Links on where to buy would be great (so I can tell my FFL). I need an AR-15 to complement my AK. OH and either .223 or 5.56mm
AR-15 build
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Redlg155
Member
Take a peek over at AR15.com in the Equipment Exchange area. There are a lot of dealers out there that have good prices on lower recievers, either stripped or complete to use on a build. Prices range from $100-$125 for DPMS, Oly, Eagle Arms and Rock River stripped lowers and $160+ for Bushmaster when you can find them.
You can also check over in the Industry Section for some distributors that have AR15 parts. Everything but the lower reciever can be shipped to your front doorstep.
If you want, shoot me an Email and I'll suggest some specific folks that I deal with a lot and one I wouldn't recommend. I won't get into that here in the forum...(speaking of the one I won't reccomend.)
Good Shooting
RED
You can also check over in the Industry Section for some distributors that have AR15 parts. Everything but the lower reciever can be shipped to your front doorstep.
If you want, shoot me an Email and I'll suggest some specific folks that I deal with a lot and one I wouldn't recommend. I won't get into that here in the forum...(speaking of the one I won't reccomend.)
Good Shooting
RED
You might want to check out ar15.com there will be plenty of folks desperate to tell you exactly what brands are best
But i got to ya first so here's my take. Lowers get either an armalite, bushmaster, colt, dpms, eagle arms, rock river arms. They're all good. Stay away from Hesse and although plenty have had good luck i would stay away from olympic. The lower is what you'll have to get through your FFL.
If you're buying an upper complete then any of the above with maybe olympic thrown in due to their excellant barrels. If your building there aren't that many people forging upper receivers and it really doesn't make that much difference. Some will claim that theirs is FN or Colt but that may be questionable. For barrels i would go with bushmaster first (colts too exspensive). Wilson or DPMS seem to be pretty decent although if you want chrome bore and chamber you'll need to check with DPMS (wilson won't have it). Don't get one of those cheap barrels that people seem to be getting with no barrel extension or Front Sight Base. Way too much money and work involved with those. Get a flatop upper if you want to mount optics.
But i got to ya first so here's my take. Lowers get either an armalite, bushmaster, colt, dpms, eagle arms, rock river arms. They're all good. Stay away from Hesse and although plenty have had good luck i would stay away from olympic. The lower is what you'll have to get through your FFL.
If you're buying an upper complete then any of the above with maybe olympic thrown in due to their excellant barrels. If your building there aren't that many people forging upper receivers and it really doesn't make that much difference. Some will claim that theirs is FN or Colt but that may be questionable. For barrels i would go with bushmaster first (colts too exspensive). Wilson or DPMS seem to be pretty decent although if you want chrome bore and chamber you'll need to check with DPMS (wilson won't have it). Don't get one of those cheap barrels that people seem to be getting with no barrel extension or Front Sight Base. Way too much money and work involved with those. Get a flatop upper if you want to mount optics.
Jack19
Member
I'm currently working on building a Rock River Arms carbine. Picked up the lower at a show and ordered the lower parts and stock directly from Rock River.
"Best" is a relative thing. To me, RRA was best because I could buy an in spec lower for a little over $120 at the show. There were no ABC lowers to be had, and had there been, they would have cost a lot more. And, people over on AR15.com say good things about RRA, so I went with them. Eventually, I'll use a RRA upper (just can't decide which one); I think mixing brands between upper and lowers, while lots of times it works, is generally bad juju. YMMV
Be careful about where you buy your parts. For my money, it's better to pay a little more and get parts from a reliable supplier, like RRA, Bushmaster, Armalight, Colt, etc., than to take a chance on what you're getting from one of the parts houses. If you go over to AR15.com and ask who not to buy parts from, you will see a pattern develop very quickly.
I would also strongly suggest the book "The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide" by Walt Kuleck and Clint McKee. It's available from scott-duff.com and worth every penny to a first time builder. The pictures themselves are worth every cent and the tips and advice will keep you from making mistakes. Trust me on this, you will thank me later.
"Best" is a relative thing. To me, RRA was best because I could buy an in spec lower for a little over $120 at the show. There were no ABC lowers to be had, and had there been, they would have cost a lot more. And, people over on AR15.com say good things about RRA, so I went with them. Eventually, I'll use a RRA upper (just can't decide which one); I think mixing brands between upper and lowers, while lots of times it works, is generally bad juju. YMMV
Be careful about where you buy your parts. For my money, it's better to pay a little more and get parts from a reliable supplier, like RRA, Bushmaster, Armalight, Colt, etc., than to take a chance on what you're getting from one of the parts houses. If you go over to AR15.com and ask who not to buy parts from, you will see a pattern develop very quickly.
I would also strongly suggest the book "The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide" by Walt Kuleck and Clint McKee. It's available from scott-duff.com and worth every penny to a first time builder. The pictures themselves are worth every cent and the tips and advice will keep you from making mistakes. Trust me on this, you will thank me later.
I had heard good things about RRA. I own an AK so I know all about Hesse's quality . AR-15.com wouldn't let me register because it though my e-mail was invalid. I am definatly going to get a book to tell me how to put all this crap together. I am such a NOOB
. AR-15.com wouldn't let me register because it though my e-mail was invalid. I am definatly going to get a book to tell me how to put all this crap together. I am such a NOOBBuy a book if you want to, but everything you need is right on the internet. Putting together an AR15 is simple. I am a total idiot and I have put together a number of them. All came out perfect. All run perfect after extensive range time. Here is everything there is to know about putting together a lower: http://www.ar15.com/content/docs/assembly/lower/
Here is a link where you can download military manuals: http://www.ar15.com/content/books/
Lower receivers: buy any one you want as long as it is forged. Unless you particularly want it to say something on the side that pulls your chain.
Uppers, I buy Bushmaster. I have Colts also and am looking at an Olympic pre-ban, but I honestly belive Bushmaster is the best. I now own seven complete AR15 rifles and have shot many more. Believe me, Bushmaster is it.
Also check out J&T http://www.jtdistributing.com/ . They make good stuff. I would rather have a Bushmaster, but J&T makes good stuff, a couple of my firends have them and I have used their lower receiver parts kits.
Here is a link where you can download military manuals: http://www.ar15.com/content/books/
Lower receivers: buy any one you want as long as it is forged. Unless you particularly want it to say something on the side that pulls your chain.
Uppers, I buy Bushmaster. I have Colts also and am looking at an Olympic pre-ban, but I honestly belive Bushmaster is the best. I now own seven complete AR15 rifles and have shot many more. Believe me, Bushmaster is it.
Also check out J&T http://www.jtdistributing.com/ . They make good stuff. I would rather have a Bushmaster, but J&T makes good stuff, a couple of my firends have them and I have used their lower receiver parts kits.
Sleeping Dog
Member
444, (or anyone else),
I like the instructions for assembling a lower that are on ar15.com.
Is there any site with similar detailed instructions for the upper? Including the required tools? I didn't build my current upper, just bought it complete from RRA. But maybe (with luck) another is in my future...
Regards
I like the instructions for assembling a lower that are on ar15.com.
Is there any site with similar detailed instructions for the upper? Including the required tools? I didn't build my current upper, just bought it complete from RRA. But maybe (with luck) another is in my future...
Regards
sleeping dog,
I'm not aware of one although there are good instructions in the TM.
FWIW from my ailing memory here's what you need and do for a postban to give you an idea, Assuming the upper is assembled (i don't ever see stripped ones).
Insert upper reciever into receiver blocks (obtain from DPMS or Bushmaster & others for ~$40-50) put the insert into the reciever and clamp in a bench vise. Lube barrel nut with moly grease. Insert barrel into receiver insuring that the index pin lines up a 12:00. Using a GI combo wrench or equivalent (dpms, bush sherluk etc) and a torque wrench torque to 70 ft-lbs, loosen and retorque for a total of 3 times. On the final time add torque to ensure that the "teeth" on the barrel nut lines up properly with the gastube hole in the upper so's you can insert the tube without it rubbing. You can go up to i believe 90 lbs or so (check the TM for these torque nos.) in order to get it lined up. Now your barrel's on. You might want to remove it and sight through the barrel on a distant object to ensure that your windage is in the ballpark (assuming that you have irons to sight with) cause nows the time to corrrect it if not. Insert gas tube. Insert gas tube roll pin using roll pin punch (1/16"?). put handguards on. check headspace (it'll be good but check it anyway). Go shoot it.
I'm not aware of one although there are good instructions in the TM.
FWIW from my ailing memory here's what you need and do for a postban to give you an idea, Assuming the upper is assembled (i don't ever see stripped ones).
Insert upper reciever into receiver blocks (obtain from DPMS or Bushmaster & others for ~$40-50) put the insert into the reciever and clamp in a bench vise. Lube barrel nut with moly grease. Insert barrel into receiver insuring that the index pin lines up a 12:00. Using a GI combo wrench or equivalent (dpms, bush sherluk etc) and a torque wrench torque to 70 ft-lbs, loosen and retorque for a total of 3 times. On the final time add torque to ensure that the "teeth" on the barrel nut lines up properly with the gastube hole in the upper so's you can insert the tube without it rubbing. You can go up to i believe 90 lbs or so (check the TM for these torque nos.) in order to get it lined up. Now your barrel's on. You might want to remove it and sight through the barrel on a distant object to ensure that your windage is in the ballpark (assuming that you have irons to sight with) cause nows the time to corrrect it if not. Insert gas tube. Insert gas tube roll pin using roll pin punch (1/16"?). put handguards on. check headspace (it'll be good but check it anyway). Go shoot it.
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Peetmoss
Member
The people over at SableCo are good people. http://www.sableco.net/index.htm They sell RRA. But go to AR15.com answers to just about everything you ever wanted to know about vendors and brands and accserories.
Sleeping Dog: Go to this link: http://www.ar15.com/content/books/
Then download
TM 9-1005-319-23 (2.6MB PDF)
Unit And Direct Support Maintenance Manual M16A2, M4, M4A1
Then download
TM 9-1005-319-23 (2.6MB PDF)
Unit And Direct Support Maintenance Manual M16A2, M4, M4A1
Redlg155
Member
Sleeping..
Most folks who say they "build" their ARs usually mean just assembling the lower and putting a complete upper on. Kits from JT and other places already have the upper completely assembled. Assembling the barrel onto the upper requires purchasing an action block, armorers wrench, torque wrench, and a vise big enough to hold the blocks. In the end it really isn't cost efficient unless you plan on doing several. If you got a kit that did not have the barrrel screwed on then more than likely you would also have to install the front sight base. A relatively easy operation with the right tools, but it can be boogered up if you don't know what you are doing.
In the case of getting a kit from JT it isn't cost efficient at all because there is no extra charge to assemble the upper for you.
Good Shooting
RED
Most folks who say they "build" their ARs usually mean just assembling the lower and putting a complete upper on. Kits from JT and other places already have the upper completely assembled. Assembling the barrel onto the upper requires purchasing an action block, armorers wrench, torque wrench, and a vise big enough to hold the blocks. In the end it really isn't cost efficient unless you plan on doing several. If you got a kit that did not have the barrrel screwed on then more than likely you would also have to install the front sight base. A relatively easy operation with the right tools, but it can be boogered up if you don't know what you are doing.
In the case of getting a kit from JT it isn't cost efficient at all because there is no extra charge to assemble the upper for you.
Good Shooting
RED
Negative rdlegg. FSB is installed on all new barrels unless you're buying a krieger etc. You can buy a complete barrel assembly which includes the FSB, barrel extension, handguard clip, swivel and barrel nut from lots of folks. Now if you're buying a barrel blank then you're into gunsmith territory. The nice thing about installing the barrel yourself is you can pick the length, composition and profile yourself .
Its not that hard to install yourself, there's really no majic to it if you know how to use tools. I had a vise and torque wrench already for automotive work etc so i only had to buy the combo wrench and action blocks. The combo wrench is handy for changing outbuttstocks as well and costs like 10 bucks so its a good deal. the action block is kinda special purpose but if you ever want to remove a barrel to put on a freefloat tube, change to a different barrel its a lifesaver. You can get buy with a barrel block made out of scrap wood instead but can end up with a windage problem. Some people will tell you that you don't even need the torque wrench but they are handy for other things as well (car).
Redlg is right about it not being cost effective. Building an AR upper or lower will not really save you any money but you'll get exactly what you want, you'll learn more about your rifle and you'll earn bragging rights.
Redlg155
Member
Hmmm..didn't think of it, but I stand corrected.
My last Rock River M4 barrel that I ordered did have the FSB installed, but then it had to because I got their fuax flash supressor installed with it.
Good Shooting
RED
Building an AR15 up from parts may or may not be cost effective. If you are doing it to save money, I would just forget it. If you buy the exact same parts and put together the exact same rifle, it oftentimes costs more to put it together yourself. I found that out with Bushmaster. However, if you are looking for a fun project, if you want to learn the rifle from the inside out, if you want to build a semi-custom creation, and if everything to you isn't about money then have fun building one.
Money isn't the big issue I have totaled it out so far and I only save about a hundred bucks. I just want to bild it for the coolness and bragging rights factor (me --- > dork) Since AR15.com won't let me post because of a server error (I'm registered) I have a few questions. I am going to go with RRA because the price is ggod and haven't heard any quality issues. for the upper I was thinking either the 24" Varmint barrel (chromed?) but it has two options
1.) the EOP rail which raises the rail up an inch. Is there any advantage to this?
2.)In the 24" barrel you have an option of a 1:12 twist or a 1:8, does either require a special grain of bullet or any thing make one "better" than the other
The options, the options
1.) the EOP rail which raises the rail up an inch. Is there any advantage to this?
2.)In the 24" barrel you have an option of a 1:12 twist or a 1:8, does either require a special grain of bullet or any thing make one "better" than the other
The options, the options
don't go with 1:12 unless you want to use only <55g bullets. I don't know much about varmint busting but i think 40 &50g bullets are popular for that.
I don't have any experience with the EOP but i would imagine it might depend on the scope you intend to use. With a big objective scope you'll need something to raise the scoope to clear the bell. I would rather use a rail and low-med rings than a flattop and high rings.
I don't have any experience with the EOP but i would imagine it might depend on the scope you intend to use. With a big objective scope you'll need something to raise the scoope to clear the bell. I would rather use a rail and low-med rings than a flattop and high rings.
H
Handy
Guest
If one wants a fairly standard post ban AR, there is no cheaper way to get one then building it. You'll spend a little over $100 for a receiver and $400 for a complete kit. Using a Sherluck kit and a really nice PWA receiver I built a 16" rifle that is identical to a Bushmaster Shorty in every respect. The Shorty sells for $800! It looked to me that both barrels were even made by Wilson.
Specialty guns MAY be a different story, but stock guns use a majority of standard, common and cheap military contractor small parts. Everyone uses them: Bushmaster doesn't make its own pins and bushings.
Suggest a Sherluck or JT kit. Avoid M&A, Model 1 or any other IL company, they're all related and bad. Find a high quality receiver and give yourself an hour or two for assembly of the lower.
It isn't brain surgery. Neither is saving $300.
Specialty guns MAY be a different story, but stock guns use a majority of standard, common and cheap military contractor small parts. Everyone uses them: Bushmaster doesn't make its own pins and bushings.
Suggest a Sherluck or JT kit. Avoid M&A, Model 1 or any other IL company, they're all related and bad. Find a high quality receiver and give yourself an hour or two for assembly of the lower.
It isn't brain surgery. Neither is saving $300.
TaurusGL
The thing about mounting a scope on an AR is that the stock comes straight back and is pretty much level with the top of the action (not exactly but close). So, when you mount a scope right on the flat top, you will have to turn your head sideways to see though it. So, you raise the scope up with blocks or a hi-rise upper receiver to position it in a good position for comfortable shooting.
The twist rate in the barrel depends on what you are going to do with it. 1/12 is good for light bullets; 55 grains an lower. The faster twist rates are for shooting heavier bullets. For example if you are shooting mil-surp M855 62 grain bullets, the 1/12 is too slow to stablize the bullets. Serious target shooters us bullets as heavy as 80 grains for extreme long distance shooting. You need a faster twist for those heavier bullets. It would seem that the average twist rate is 1/9. I believe the Colt M4 uses a 1/7 twist.
If you are looking for a rifle to compliement your AK, I would think that a 24" barrel is awlful long. I personally own mostly 16" barrels which is the shortest legal length. You can get shorter barrels but civilian guns have a muzzle brake installed to bring the over all lenth up to 16". The original military M16 uses a 20" barrel and that barrel length is stil used by the Marine Corps. The Army has gone to the M4 which has a 14 1/2" barrel. Of course if you are building a target rifle or a long range varmint barrel then 24" is fine.
The thing about mounting a scope on an AR is that the stock comes straight back and is pretty much level with the top of the action (not exactly but close). So, when you mount a scope right on the flat top, you will have to turn your head sideways to see though it. So, you raise the scope up with blocks or a hi-rise upper receiver to position it in a good position for comfortable shooting.
The twist rate in the barrel depends on what you are going to do with it. 1/12 is good for light bullets; 55 grains an lower. The faster twist rates are for shooting heavier bullets. For example if you are shooting mil-surp M855 62 grain bullets, the 1/12 is too slow to stablize the bullets. Serious target shooters us bullets as heavy as 80 grains for extreme long distance shooting. You need a faster twist for those heavier bullets. It would seem that the average twist rate is 1/9. I believe the Colt M4 uses a 1/7 twist.
If you are looking for a rifle to compliement your AK, I would think that a 24" barrel is awlful long. I personally own mostly 16" barrels which is the shortest legal length. You can get shorter barrels but civilian guns have a muzzle brake installed to bring the over all lenth up to 16". The original military M16 uses a 20" barrel and that barrel length is stil used by the Marine Corps. The Army has gone to the M4 which has a 14 1/2" barrel. Of course if you are building a target rifle or a long range varmint barrel then 24" is fine.
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