AR-15 Buyer's Remorse (re: Irons and Carbine Gas System)

[ZombiesAhead]

I bought a Bushmaster AR-15 16" "Patrolman's Rifle." (16" HBAR, Carbine-Length Gas System, Removable Carry Handle) I really liked it at first until I read more and more about AR-15's and now I wished I did some stuff differently.

First of all, I wanted to use this rifle to get good with iron sights because the sights on my AK are garbage. I knew the 16" sight-radius was kind of short but I didn't want a full on 20" barrel.

I probably should have gotten either the Dissapator upper (full length guards, sight block at end of 16" barrel) or at least a mid-length gas system.

Buyer's remorse sucks. Does anyone seriously use the irons on a carbine-length gas system or does everyone just replace them with optics?

You guys think maybe should I should just get rid of this upper and pick up a Dissipator or 16" Mid-Length if I'm interested mainly in shooting with the irons?

Can I convert this to a mid-length system without buying a whole new upper?

Can I convert this to a dissipator style rifle without buying a whole new upper?

 

[Tarvis]

Depends on you and how well you shoot with the current sight radius. Don't decide you hate it until you give it a chance.

 

[teombe]

I think you're overthinking it pretty seriously...

I have a 16" carbine length sight radius gun, and I can pop 3" balloons while standing, unsupported at 50 yards very easily. I doubt I could do better with rifle length sights.

You want to spend some money, just buy an aimpoint... then the sight radius of your gun simply won't matter anymore.

 

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Well, can't always get what you want, right? Hindsight is always 20/20.

I preordered an AR180B because I wanted a "battleish" 5.56 rifle that didn't work on impingement, was not an AK, and had AR15 like controls, fed from STANAG magazines, was not an AK, etc. I walked out of the store with a Rock River Coyote. Great rifle, still not what I was needing.

So I think I'll go with a carbine upper and get a Bushy piston system. It's kind of what I wanted in the first place. Modularity is one thing you gotta give the AR15 credit for.

 

[brighamr]

I'm with teombe on this one. It takes a while to adjust to irons, luckily you have the detachable carry handle which will allow you to scope it, or practice with irons as you mentioned.

Shoot a few hundred rounds, shoot a few hundred with a borrowed scope, then shoot a few hundred more with irons and make your choice.

 

[vzenmn]

Have you shot it yet? If not you might want to since you might find it to be not that big of a deal. And if you don't like it just swap the upper with the one you want. And don't go believing everything you read on the internet. No matter what it is you buy there is going to be an armchair commando who is going to talk crap about it.

 

[ZombiesAhead]

I'm just an idiot for going out there with the intention of buying a good rifle to learn how to use AR-15 iron sights and ending walking away with something that it seems like No One uses anything but optics on...

Even when I was in the store, the guy tried to tell me he had never heard of "mid length."

Realistically, does anyone use the irons on a carbine-length system exclusively? Or is this rifle really just designed for optics?

 

[MMcfpd]

I have a Colt 6520 (16") that I use with irons only.

But if you really think you'd be happier with something else, well, AR-15s are not very hard to sell.

 

[BobCat]

When the old AWB expired, I assembled a 16" with stock iron sights and, shooting seated, at 100 yards at the reduced MR target, it prints every bit as well as the 20" (with a skinny front post and 0.046" rear peep) I shoot in the match.

If you shoot your carbine I think you will fall in love with it. Light, handy, probably quite accurate - the extra four inches of sight radius might make a difference at 300 yards, but I doubt you bought it for that. Try it, I bet you like it.

Reading specifications and features can get a person wrapped around the axle to no good cause.

If you want a mid-length barrel and gas system, it is only money to swap into your upper (and not *that much* money anyway).

Shoot it and have fun. If you really don't like it, you can change it.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[W.E.G.]

Buy a new upper because you want one.

For what the short-sight-radius guns are intended to do, the AR-15 accuracy is very good in the shortened configuration. If you want to knock down groundhogs at squintin' distance, its the wrong choice.

 

[Steve in PA]

Iron sights only on my Bushmaster carbine.

Optics are nice, but nothing wrong with a bare bones rifle.

 

[JohnBT]

I have a 16" Rock River with iron sights. Shoots good, too. Of course, I grew up with iron sights, so it suits fine me here in my urban environment.

John

 

[possum]

if there is an optic on my ar then there is buis. i use the irons and the optic, not equally but i do use both of them. if there happens to be a red dot down type scenario you need to stay in the fight and get those iron sights up and on target.
btw i have a 16" bushmaster carbine length gas system and i have no issues and i love it.

 

[Coronach]

It will work fine for practical shooting. If you are into sandbagging the rifle and taking your time to print small cloverleafs you would be better off with a rifle or middy (in that order), but for combat shooting the CAR will be fine. Will your groups probably be a little bigger? Yes. Will they only be a little bigger? Yes. Will the sights be a bajillion times superior to the AK's? Yes.

Mike

 

[ArmedBear]

I use A2 irons on a CAR sight radius at 100 yards in poor light (we have a 100 yard indoor range). They work well enough when you get used to them.

However, you can get smaller front posts, as well as a wide variety from KNS. See this page. Model 1 is one vendor, they're available from several vendors. I've had a good experience with Model 1, though.

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BPFSKNS1&storeid=1&image=frnsightkns.gif

I do shoot better with A2 sights on my 20", but I think it has more to do with the apparent size of the front sight post in the aperture than with the sight radius per se. A smaller sight post or one with a ball on top should give almost equal performance on a 16".

 

[leadcounsel]

My duty weapon is light and simple. I have a flattop M4 with a 16" barrel with flip up ghost rear sight and an iron post front sight. That's it. No optics, carry handle, flashlight or other gizmos.

Here's a picture from my last trip to the range when I was re-zeroing. Don't pay too much attention to the location of the shots but instead just pay attention to the grouping - because zeroing is about grouping. The group is from a full 30-round magazine on semi-auto from 25 meters on a 200 meter target with iron sights in a prone supported position. The shots were high, but it was user error because I had my adjustable ghost ring flipup on the wrong distance setting.

The group is very tight, with a couple strays. One thing to note is that while they were all grouped alittle high on the target, they are almost all kill shots.

 

[Jeremy2171]

All I use are irons on my carbine.........
just because others have gotten into the M4 "tacticool" fad fad with optics and swiss army knives there is no reason YOU have to!

Iron sights are iron sights, especially on the AR series they are some of the best out there. Learn to shoot what you have I doubt you will see much difference with the longer 20" radius unless you are a serious competitive shooter...

 

[Onmilo]

To answer the questions about converting your rifle:

Yes, you can convert the upper to a Dissapator or Mid Length style but it will involve rebarrelling the rifle. this will cost about $250 plus whatever the gunsmith charges for doing the work.
This will be less expensive than buying a new upper, but, you can sell the upper you currently own and recover some of the cost if you just replace the upper altogether.
If you rebarrel you will end up with an unused barrel assembly laying around.

If your eyes aren't up to the task of focusing correctly on the shorter sight radius of a carbine, the longer sight radius of the Dissapator may be the way to go.

 

[mavracer]

the sight radius difference of 4" represents roughly 10 to 15% so ask your self can I live with a gun capable of ~1.15" groups or do I trade and get one that shoots 1".because in reality with all other things being equal thats what little difference your talking about.

 

[Kharn]

Carbine irons are fine, but if it still bugs you after shooting it get an aimpoint or eotech and a back-up sight.

Kharn

 

[yosarian]

I use my irons almost all the time on my carbine.I own a holosight and think its great for what its meant to do but I find myself always going back to my irons.Give your irons some range time,at shorter distances the sight radius won't be a huge factor.

 

[wcwhitey]

I have a Bushy Shorty AK. 14.5 barrel with the permanent AK muzzle brake to give 16". It has A1 sights (replaced the aperture with an A2). This is my KISS rifle. I shoot it as much as I can. Yes the shorter sight radius will increase the size of your groups slightly but it is a great shooting rifle. After a good amount of practice and finding the right load I can keep the groups to about 3" with ball ammo. Realistically that is pretty good for a shorty carbine. I also have a bull barelled 16" flat top from DPMS that is scoped with bipod, it will shoot sub MOA with the right reload and will shoot just about any surplus to about 1.5". Sorry about your buyers remorse, but you have a great little carbine enjoy it for what it is. If you want a more accurate AR look around for a Hbar post-ban upper.

P.S. If you have a collapsible stock now try an A2. All my guns have the same stock, It was an improvement in feel for me over the collapsible one. Just a thought.

 

[BrennanKG]

PM inbound.



B.

 

[Donut]

Yes, you can convert the upper to a Dissapator or Mid Length style but it will involve rebarrelling the rifle. this will cost about $250 plus whatever the gunsmith charges for doing the work.
This will be less expensive than buying a new upper, but, you can sell the upper you currently own and recover some of the cost if you just replace the upper altogether.
If you rebarrel you will end up with an unused barrel assembly laying around.

Actually, you don't have to re-barrel the rifle. You can just switch to a low profile gas block in the standard carbine gas port position, and then mount a standard FSB at the rifle length, and toss some standard rifle-length handguards on it and viola! Carbine gas, Rifle sight radius.

 

[Big45]

I never regret buying AR's, but I do have the sickness where I immediately want another one.