AR-15 first-timer

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reelredneck1

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central florida
I've always played around with the idea of getting an an AR-15 ,but by the time I had enough $$$, something else would come up.:( Now I've done a bit of research and decided to go ahead and build it myself. I am probably going to pick up a dpms lower at the local shop and then order a lower parts kit and stock from midway USA. My question has to do with the upper receiver. I was going to just order a complete upper from midway, but I don't see a particular setup I like. I would like to know how hard it is to assemble your own upper and how it compares price wise to just buying the whole thing. I know I will need some basic tooling (action block,barrel wrench,and punches),but I am not quite sure what parts I will need to complete the stripped upper. Any help is appreciated !!!!
Thank you

Joe
 
Brownells will sell you a DVD that covers just about all the aspects of building your AR. And, I'm sure there are other places that sell them, and maybe even clips on YouTube. But, I still would recommend picking up a DVD you can book mark, back up, zoom in on, etc. As far as tools, I would think a decent quality torque wrench would be your biggest expenditure.
 
i strongly suggest that you do not build your own (or completely take apart one that you buy already completed.

once you do, thats it, your addicted.
 
I would like to know how hard it is to assemble your own upper and how it compares price wise to just buying the whole thing.

If you buy all the components at once, you likely won't save much...if any. Resale will plummet, as well.

Ask me how I know. ;)

That being said...I wanted to put one together because I never have. Now I have. Now I have an AR15 that is reliable, that I understand reasonably well, that I built myself and that I also don't care too much for after shooting it. Luckily, my girlfriend loves it, so I'm not tempted to sell it off for just a few bucks. I still enjoyed building it (and looking at it, cleaning it and contemplating different builds I could do)...I just prefer actually shooting bolt guns or lever guns.

The only advice I'll give you is watch the brownell's videos on youtube, ask questions here and Bravo Company is a great (if not the best) source for top notch components at a lower to mid range price.
 
Building your first AR yourself can be quite an accomplishment, but playing the part of the devil's advocate, I have to ask, who are you going to call if all doesn't go smoothly. You could very well wind up with a very expensive single shot AR, or worse.

If cost is a concern, you can get a complete upper and a complete lower and mate these. You'll learn a lot from maintaining your rifle and doing a build later down the line will be much easier due to having a good basic understanding of the way the AR works.

Generally speaking, you really don't save much money building it yourself. The benefit of building it yourself comes from being able to choose your components.
 
Different suppliers have different policies, but if you only want one rifle, then you may as well have someone like Del-Ton or LMT build it for you (two different price ranges there). Tell them what you want, and they'll make it.
 
I'm not questioning your skills. I'm a tinkerer myself. What is difficult about putting an AR together is that putting the parts together is simple, but how you put them together is important and can/will have an impact on accuracy and how they run. It's important to have the right tools, so that's an expense in itself. The other thing is that you will be working with all new parts, so you'll assume that all should work as they are supposed to. If something isn't doing what it's supposed to and the rifle won't run right, you'll have no idea of what's causing it.

Personally, I always buy parts from reputable places. Even still I've had gas tubes that were out of spec, bad rings, barrel nuts that wouldn't line up, etc. There are all sorts of things that could go wrong. That barrel nut thing will drive you crazy too, when you go to tighten the nut to spec and at one position it's way too loose and you can't get it to the next because you would be over torquing the barrel. The next thing you know, you have a messed up barrel nut and a dinged up brand new barrel.

For most people, who don't have experienced help, it's best to get a complete build to start with and learn the platform. Then build one in the future when you have some sort of personal knowledge base to work with. Believe me, trying to diagnose a problem on the net is sometimes, next to impossible.

A compromise would be to assemble a lower and buy a complete upper. Aside from breaking the ears messing with the trigger guard, there isn't much damage that you can do to a lower that can't be undone.
 
I would look at a good firearms website, like http://www.impactguns.com/. In the AR-15 section they have a really good selection of full rifles as well as easy search options for the individual parts as well if your heart is set on assembling it yourself.
 
Its not tough to assemble an upper. I would suggest getting a barrel with the gas block already installed as this is an area that requires some fit and finish work that a non-gunsmith would find himself having a hard time doing. Unless you have self guiding, no walk, tapered drill bits to drill the blocks for taper pins that is. It is best to get one with the gas block installed. =) Plus if you're not carful you might just accidently drill into the bore of the barrel!!!
 
Thanks for all the info. I ordered my dpms stock and lower parts kit from midway. I also went down to shoot straight and bought a spikes tactical lower receiver for $99.00.I'm still looking at uppers but I'm definitely going to get one that's already assembled. I'm might be able to get a used A-2 upper assembly pretty cheap off of my uncle, because he is looking at an A-3 so he can mount some glass. And also I was wondering are lowers considered pistols as far as Florida is concerned? Because after we drove the hour to do all the paperwork they told me that it has a 3 day wait on it, Because it could be built into a pistol.(I kinda wanted to say "yea it could be built into an sbr too. do i have to pay a tax stamp on it now?" but I realy want to be able to pick it up on thursday... )
 
I'd say build your lower, buy your upper.

That's what I did. I highly recommend it. Assembling the lower isn't difficult, and it's educational. It's also one of the areas where there's not a whole lot to go wrong. Semi-autos tend to have their problems in the way things near the chamber and bolt move. In an AR, that's the upper.

I personally assembled my lower from a Stag receiver and a DPMS parts kit. Never built or shot (or heck - even HANDLED - just looked at) an AR15 prior to that, though I have been doing small type work on Mausers and such and had previously assembled a 1911 from scratch. Only problem I ran into was that I lost a few detent pins/springs that unexpectently went flying (after I got the replacements in, I actually installed them in my hall-way with all doors shut. Figured if they flew again they've be easy to find on the laminate :)). I did use a step by step guide with pictures.

After I got the lower assembled it took another 6 months or so for the upper to come in (backordered from Del-ton). When I got it in, it mated right to the lower and shoots beautifully. Nary a hiccup. I would have had my reservations about building the upper though.
 
this is the same boat I am in. I am an AR newbie too. I am building an Armalite lower with Armalite Lower Parts Kit, and I bought the Armalite 20" A2 upper. I have a fair amount in it but the rifle I am putting together is not available on the market, and it should be pretty cool! I just saw an add for the Wilson combat trigger unit, and I am definitely going to look at it.
 
Spikes makes good quality uppers (and has a very good reputation for quality and customer service), I get one esp. since you have a matching lower. BCM is also good.

I have an LMT, but wouldn't hesitate to buy Spikes.
 
Lots of spike's customers are happy. They will chime in.

Building an AR and getting it to work takes more research than tools or direct experience. If you can change a water pump or rebuild a carburetor, you can assemble an upper. Special tools are nice, but not necessary.

That's right - not necessary. Blocks of wood can clamp an upper, a strap wrench can torque the barrel nut. Taking someone who already understands they can break off 3/8" clutch bolts with a hand wrench, assembling the upper is not that hard. The basic problem areas are torquing the barrel nut to get the sprockets lined up for the gas tube, and mounting the front sight base/gas block.

As suggested, get the barrel with the gas block mounted already. It's almost cheaper than buying separate parts. Volume assembly means buying parts lower than wholesale, a fixture already paid for, and assemblers with the skill to do it right the first time. They then market the barrel with sight for almost no labor charge. As it is the most critical two parts to go together, and just as cheap, why not? Unless it's part of the essential learning process you want to go through, discovering the sight is canted, or the gas block shadows the gas port and it has to be done over again is no fun.

Assembling the barrel to the upper is much less about the torque, as it is about getting full contact and have the barrel coaxial to the upper. Good parts are very important there. Some uppers are off center, and so are some barrels. The cartridges won't care when chambered, but the rest of the exercise not done right means running out of sight adjustment, wandering zero, or galled threads. Nonetheless, the AR in milspec trim is only a 2MOA gun. You can do a lot better.

The Most Important Thing is to know there are configurations of parts that don't interchange well with other sets. Physically, they screw right on. Dynamically, as a component of a system, not so much. Unless you are running a 14.5" barrel, carbine gas is a bit harder on a 16" barrel. Mid-length is preferred. If shooting inexpensive white box ammo is the goal, a larger gas port can be had, but it may cause problems with full power tactical ammo, like sticking cases that fail to extract due to early bolt operation. The AR cannot be built from all the coolest parts available - many are incompatible to the end purpose. You get a crossed up mess, like the results of a dachshund and shepherd. Sure they both came from Germany, you were paying attention to what each did differently?

I just saw one of those on a video yesterday - three sets of optics on a short barreled carbine with bipod. More confusion than purpose.
 
thanks again for all of the great info. My parts kit and stock just got here today and I'm picking up the stripped lower tomorrow.I plan to put it all together tomorrow night. As far as tools go I've just gut your basic shop tools. Just wondering if any one has any tips,warnings,or suggestions for assembling it without specialized tools? I know its not rocket science but I'm still a bit nervous after seeing the size of some of those little detents and springs(I just broke a mirror yesterday and Murphy just aint my best friend ).
 
The following tools & materials will be needed to build an upper.

- ar15 vice block (suggest the polymer one that clamps around the upper)
- ar15 barrel nut wrench
- hockey puck
- flash hider/compensator of your choice
- barrel of your choice
- barrel nut (some are specific to certain rail systems)
- upper reciever of your choice
- gas tube & retainer pin
- bolt carrier group of your choice
- charging handle of your choice
- delta ring (for 2 point handguard)
- free floating rail system *or* M4 handguard (depending on your build)
- 4 inch bench vice
- declassified military M4 armorers guide *or* youtube
- and a little brow sweat
 
For the upper I would look at Spikes or Bravo Company Machine. BCM will have WAY WAY more options than Spikes.
 
Best deal to be had right now is the Daniel Defense Uppers Smartgunner.com is offering!!!! Beter get em while you can :)
 
And also I was wondering are lowers considered pistols as far as Florida is concerned? Because after we drove the hour to do all the paperwork they told me that it has a 3 day wait on it, Because it could be built into a pistol.(I kinda wanted to say "yea it could be built into an sbr too. do i have to pay a tax stamp on it now?" but I realy want to be able to pick it up on thursday... )

Your dealer needs some serious remedial training when it comes to the laws regarding lowers. The Feds say you have to be 21 to buy an AR lower because the law says that an 18 year old can only buy a rifle or a shotgun and a AR lower receiver is not a rife or a shotgun. On the other hand, it certainly is not a pistol under Federal or Florida law either and your point about building an SBR out of it is right on the money. I have purchased striped AR lowers from several dealers in Central Florida and it has always been cash and carry after the background check. There is no requirement for a multiple sales report when you buy more than one bare AR receiver, like there would be with pistols. In plain english, a AR receiver is not a pistol and the only reason you can't sell it to a 18 year old is because it is not a rifle or shotgun either. No pistol means no waiting period. Period.

As far as building uppers, it is only really worth it if you plan on building more than one or are looking for a project and the satisfaction of doing it yourself. For a first build, I would recommend a barrel with the sight block already installed with pins, as it is one less thing to worry about. Just remember good pins are tapered and if you need to take the sight off and on, be sure you are driving them the correct way.

With a standard barrel nut, if you can't get it to line up in the recommended torque range, you can always file the notch a little larger on the nut, where the gas tube passes through. This is often not an option with custom nuts for free float forearms. In the most drastic cases, you will either need to get a lapping tool or trust your own skills to evenly remove some material from the barrel mount area.

Truthfully, it really is a non-issue. Over many upper builds, I have never had to do any of these, as just repeatedly tightening and loosening the nut has always brought it into range sooner or later. If you are using a steel nut, be sure and use anti-seize on the threads, as the receiver is aluminum. Grease the front of the barrel extension flange where it contacts the nut and, if the barrel nut is aluminum, grease the threads also. Moly grease is recommended.

What ever you do, make sure the gas tube is lined up as accurately as humanly possible. Check it by sliding an empty bolt carrier back and forth in the upper receiver. You should feel no resistance as the gas tube slides in and out of the gas key on the carrier. Even though problems are extremely rare, a set of GO and NO-GO gauges for checking headspace are required, if you like your fingers and eyesight.

ARs you build your self don't always work right the first time out and they don't have a warranty so, if you don't enjoy tinkering and problem solving, it may not be for you. On the other hand, if you are mechanically inclined, it is not that difficult and gives you the satisfaction of knowing your rifle inside and out.
 
As an alternative to building one, shop around for a complete "used" one. Many people stocked up pre election and are now selling them off, though you can find VERY inexpensive stripped lowers these days. For the Upper, I'd recommend DSA ZM4. There may or may not be better deals out there right now, but when I was in this situation I went with their $275 upper and couldn't be happier with it. It has worked 100% so far.
 
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